1. Get the Diabetes Forum App for your phone - available on iOS and Android.
    Dismiss Notice
  2. Guest, we'd love to know what you think about the forum! Take the Diabetes Forum Survey 2021 »
    Dismiss Notice
  3. Diabetes Forum should not be used in an emergency and does not replace your healthcare professional relationship. Posts can be seen by the public.
    Dismiss Notice
  4. Guest, stay home, stay safe, save the NHS. Stay up to date with information about keeping yourself and people around you safe here and GOV.UK: Coronavirus (COVID-19). Think you have symptoms? NHS 111 service is available here.
    Dismiss Notice
Dismiss Notice
Find support, ask questions and share your experiences. Join the community »

Watch "What is Carbohydrate?" on YouTube

Discussion in 'Type 2 with Insulin' started by Thyroiddiabetic, Feb 4, 2017.

  1. Thyroiddiabetic

    Thyroiddiabetic Type 2 · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    134
    Likes Received:
    123
    Trophy Points:
    63

    Found this on carbohydrates from Dr Bernsteins office with HIS comments later interesting.
    No wonder I'm getting spikes (for 9 years)all the food tested I have been eating just not as much.
    Problem is meat pork and lamb cause cancer and contain the cancer causing sugar molecule not recognised by our immune system.A diabetic doctor said I must stop eating starch even with an a1c of 5.4 will be higher next time.I do have 100%rye bread been getting a dull pain in a muscle above the ankle left foot when having coffee or carbs so if no carbs meat etc what is left to eat.
    I do have oat bran with protein powder.
    I don't think I can live on cheese broccoli and cauliflower chicken or fish what do other people suggest ,carb blockers?? Or eat that's carb free too much banting food contains flaxseed which I can't stand.
    Metformin 1500 mg per day only.
     
    #1 Thyroiddiabetic, Feb 4, 2017 at 9:39 PM
    Last edited: Feb 4, 2017
  2. DaftThoughts

    DaftThoughts LADA · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    397
    Likes Received:
    613
    Trophy Points:
    133
    The problem with saying meat causes cancers is that the WHO itself says that the risks of cancers in processed meat (like a sausage, not a plain, fresh porkchop from the butcher's) is not yet fully understood. They used to say that eggs were terrible for our cholesterol, now they're saying they don't affect cholesterol at all. While I will not tell anyone to dismiss science on food, I do urge everyone to be careful with conclusions drawn from early and inconclusive research and trust your gut instinct as well. Science is not absolute, there's a lot of correlation that isn't necessarily causation too.

    Quantity matters. In large amounts, water is pure poison for us (both through ingestion and inhalation) but that doesn't mean we shouldn't drink any. Quantity obviously affects how good or bad something is for us. Eating meat a couple of times a week is not likely to increase your risk for cancer. (I suspect that inhaling polluted air from living in a large city does more damage to your body than eating normal amounts of meat does.)

    Low carb does have benefits for many diabetics, especially T2D like yourself, but we must also keep in mind that not every diabetic is the same. If your bloodsugar spikes after a meal, it might be the amount of carbs or the ratio of carbs to fibers, proteins and fat, not so much the fact you're eating carbs. Diabetics like myself have relatively good control over our numbers on a moderate carb diet too. Whole wheat, brown rice and boiled potatoes instead of baked also matter, because the body does process them differently due to the presence of fibers and the chemistry behind preparation. (I never seem to spike at all from boiled potatoes!) I try to stick to smaller portions for my carbs and increase the fibers, proteins and fats where possible though.

    If low carbing isn't for you because it limits your meal choices too much, why not compromise by introducing a 50/50 dietary regime into your life? 4 days of low carb and 4 days of moderate carb would be a great way to see where your post-meal spikes come from. With that knowledge you can make decisions on where to go next.

    You can also look on the internet for low carb meal suggestions/recipes, as you can introduce a lot of variety by different methods of preparation, seasoning and combinations to make it less repetitive.
     
    • Like Like x 3
    • Agree Agree x 3
    • Informative Informative x 2
  3. miahara

    miahara Type 2 · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    877
    Likes Received:
    803
    Trophy Points:
    133
    I'm very sceptical about about food scares and tend to ignore them unless well supported by peer-reviewed papers. The same applies to 'super food' claims in the press.
    Us human beans have been omnivores for millenia and the race hasn't died out yet.
    Personally I'd stay clear of the carbs as far as possible - the bread and the oats. I rather doubt that includimg meat, or fish in your diet will result in an early demise
     
    • Agree Agree x 3
    • Like Like x 2
  4. Tophat1900

    Tophat1900 Type 3c · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,365
    Likes Received:
    1,332
    Trophy Points:
    178
    It got good once it got to Dr.Bernstein.... until then, boy did it drag as it slowly produced the predictable result.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  5. Winnie53

    Winnie53 Type 2 · BANNED

    Messages:
    2,374
    Likes Received:
    2,107
    Trophy Points:
    178
    @Thyroiddiabetic as a type 2 diabetic, I have two goals: eat foods that keep glucose levels below 140 mg/dl (7.8 mmol/L) prior to and following eating to increase insulin sensitivity and/or reduce insulin resistance. Eating a low carbohydrate ketogenic diet (LCKD), which is less than 50 carbs a day makes that possible for me most of the time without taking medication(s) or injecting insulin.

    Everyone has a different tipping point with carbohydrate intake. phonic2k, I assume, is able to maintain a normal A1c - (is that right?; I envy you! :) ) - by eating 100 to 120 carbohydrates a day, which would not be possible for me because I have severe insulin resistance. We're all different.

    Additionally, due to a lot of variables, how much a specific food spikes my glucose levels compared to you or others commenting here will differ, sometimes greatly. That's why we each have to "eat to our meter".

    Eliminating or greatly reducing intake of sugar, grains, starchy root vegetables, legumes, and fruit isn't easy at first - (and to that list I'd add for other reasons industrial seed oils - (corn, soybean, saffola, canola, sunflower, cottonseed, and peanut) - but the results are impressive.

    I still have small amounts of root vegetables, legumes, and fruit, but typically only once or twice a day. I rarely have sugar or grains. It's been two years. I'm doing okay. Last A1c was 5.4%.

    If I went back to eating grains with every meal and fruit once or twice a day, my glucose levels would begin spiking into the 180 - 200 mg/dl (10 - 11.1 mmol/L) range immediately, eventually climbing to up to 300 mg/dl (16.6 mmol/L), which is not what I want.

    To learn more about the low carbohydrate high fat diet, come visit us at the Low-carb Diet Forum and ask questions... http://www.diabetes.co.uk/forum/category/low-carb-diet-forum.18/

    Oh, and thanks for posting the link to the video. We've been mislead: complex carbohydrates in the form of grains and starchy vegetables convert to glucose quickly as demonstrated by the test strips.

    @DaftThoughts I'm curious as to whether or not I can tolerate boiled potatoes better than baked. Will give it a try. :)

    A good place to start is to continue eating how you're eating now AND test pre-meal, 1-hour post-meal, and 2-hours post-meal. If you keep a journal, noting what you ate and your pre- and post-meal results, you'll gain a better understanding of how the foods you're eating are affecting your glucose levels. What you're eating might be fine, might not. You won't know until you begin tracking your results. :)

    Oh, and as for the meat concerns... The low carbohydrate diet is a moderate protein diet, not high protein - (excess protein is converted to glucose, not what we want).

    I include a small amount of animal and/or plant protein in each meal, but it's not much. For me at 142 pounds (64 kilograms), I include an egg and slice of bacon for breakfast, 3 ounces or less of animal protein and/or raw nuts and avocado for lunch, and 3 ounces or less of animal protein for dinner. For energy, I add healthy fats to each meal. For fiber and additional nutrients, I add lots of vegetables.

    Animal protein, cheese if you're able to eat dairy, nuts, seeds, vegetables, berries, fats, mushrooms, onions, garlic, herbs and spices can be combined to make delicious, satisfying meals. :)
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Winner Winner x 1
    • Informative Informative x 1
    #5 Winnie53, Feb 5, 2017 at 2:12 AM
    Last edited: Feb 5, 2017
  6. Thyroiddiabetic

    Thyroiddiabetic Type 2 · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    134
    Likes Received:
    123
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Thanks interesting will look into it.
    I think the spikes are. Coming from coffee I have on an empty stomach in the morning am cutting down.
     
  7. Thyroiddiabetic

    Thyroiddiabetic Type 2 · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    134
    Likes Received:
    123
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Yeah I'm sure there are much better ones from Bernstein on carbs but there are so many its not always possible to spot the really good ones
     
  8. Tophat1900

    Tophat1900 Type 3c · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,365
    Likes Received:
    1,332
    Trophy Points:
    178
    I think he did a good job of quickly summing up carbs in this one and the absolute lunacy of dietary guidelines still being pushed by diabetes associations.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  9. Mep

    Mep Type 2 · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,461
    Likes Received:
    906
    Trophy Points:
    173
    Well for me eating food isn't as simple as it used to be. I did diet control for years. These days I'm on MDI of insulin because I hardly produce my own. But the way I eat is to eat what gives me less pain. Every now and again I break out and eat something and I'm in pain for days. Eg. I had some roast beef last week and regretted it an hour later when I had knifing pain going right through me. The food that causes me less pain is carbs mostly... even some of those I don't eat due to choking easily. It stands to reason that everything I put in my mouth is no good for me really... either increases inflammation, causes pain and other symptoms, or raises my blood sugar.... can't win. I'd love to eat low carb again but I'm at a loss as to how to do that when meat and veggies causes pain and spasms on me. I can eat eggs ok, but can't just live on eggs. Well anyhow I'm rambling.. haha. Just that it's not really simple for everyone is my point.
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Hug Hug x 1
  10. Thyroiddiabetic

    Thyroiddiabetic Type 2 · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    134
    Likes Received:
    123
    Trophy Points:
    63
    I know that you mean I get terrible joint and muscle pain from coffee and I'm sure other inflammatory foods.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  11. poemagraphic

    poemagraphic Type 2 · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    689
    Likes Received:
    1,130
    Trophy Points:
    158
    One must watch the onions and toms... they have a huge effect for such small amounts!
    This is a great response btw.
    Po
     
  12. Diakat

    Diakat Type 1 · Moderator
    Staff Member

    Messages:
    5,600
    Likes Received:
    4,169
    Trophy Points:
    198
    It’s quite an old thread here Po, but @Winnie53 is still around.
     
  • Meet the Community

    Find support, connect with others, ask questions and share your experiences with people with diabetes, their carers and family.

    Did you know: 7 out of 10 people improve their understanding of diabetes within 6 months of being a Diabetes Forum member. Get the Diabetes Forum App and stay connected on iOS and Android

    Grab the app!
  • Tweet with us

  • Like us on Facebook