1. Get the Diabetes Forum App for your phone - available on iOS and Android.
    Dismiss Notice
  2. Guest, we'd love to know what you think about the forum! Take the Diabetes Forum Survey 2021 »
    Dismiss Notice
  3. Diabetes Forum should not be used in an emergency and does not replace your healthcare professional relationship. Posts can be seen by the public.
    Dismiss Notice
  4. Guest, stay home, stay safe, save the NHS. Stay up to date with information about keeping yourself and people around you safe here and GOV.UK: Coronavirus (COVID-19). Think you have symptoms? NHS 111 service is available here.
    Dismiss Notice
Dismiss Notice
Find support, ask questions and share your experiences. Join the community »

Went off the keto diet - big mistake.

Discussion in 'Reactive Hypoglycemia' started by swttbsy5, Jan 4, 2021.

  1. swttbsy5

    swttbsy5 Reactive hypoglycemia · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    48
    Likes Received:
    9
    Trophy Points:
    28
    I've was in ketosis for around 6 months. The results were great. I was not experiencing the crashes anymore except for on the odd occasion. I was getting tired after breaking the daily fast. I started to think that dairy was causing a reaction and so stopped eating dairy. I felt better almost straight away. I convinced myself that it was dairy and not carbs all along and decided to go off the keto diet. I ate a bunch of other high carb foods and then crashed so badly. It was very unpleasant. I am now trying to get back into ketosis. It's been a couple of days and my ketone readings are still low - down to 0.3. I do feel a lot better though and am back to skipping breakfast with no hunger. A 16 hour fast every day which I was very used to. Before they were reading around 2.5-3 every day. At least now I know for sure.
     
    • Hug Hug x 3
    • Informative Informative x 1
  2. Lamont D

    Lamont D Reactive hypoglycemia · Master

    Messages:
    12,436
    Likes Received:
    15,547
    Trophy Points:
    298
    Hi @swttbsy5
    Happy New Year,
    The reason you crashed so bad, was because you have been in Keto for a while, and since your body is so used to it, it was a shock to the system, your awareness of going out of normal levels is high, so when your brain recognised the high spikes, then the insulin overshoot triggered and quickly drove your blood levels down into a hypo, did you notice how much longer the hypo it takes to get back to feeling better like a bad hangover.
    I use intermittent fasting myself and can only eat small meals.
    Well done on the six months though. Well done on deciding what is best for you.

    How were you over Christmas or was this the period you have fell off the wagon?

    Stay safe
     
  3. swttbsy5

    swttbsy5 Reactive hypoglycemia · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    48
    Likes Received:
    9
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Thanks. It was after Xmas and NYE. I thought I may have been cured. I was wrong.

    I don't know if for me it is insulin overshoot though. It's been a while since I've been on the forum here and there's new information. After extensive testing, including a fasting test and many blood tests, the endo says I don't have RH because my bgl does not go low enough to satisfy the 3 criteria for whipple's triad. I get a rapid spike in bgl after carbs, followed by a rapid crash and extremely uncomfortable hypo symptoms, relief of symptoms when glucose is raised. But the crash from say 7 or 8 down to 4 or mid 3's, although it's rapid, is not technically a hypo.

    The endo says I have an unexplainable (at this stage) reaction to certain carbs that results in a rapid drop in glucose levels with hypo symptoms. After all the blood tests etc. Insulin and all the hormones were all in normal range.

    I believe I have idiopathic postprandial syndrome.

    I've also noticed that usually the experience shared by people on this forum and the advice is spot on for me. So thanks for that!
     
  4. Lamont D

    Lamont D Reactive hypoglycemia · Master

    Messages:
    12,436
    Likes Received:
    15,547
    Trophy Points:
    298
    No worries, regardless of the diagnostic tests, even tho you do go hyper/ near hypo, the symptoms are caused by fluctuating blood levels up and down, so your reaction to carbs are very similar to RH, without you actually going low enough.
    Have you ever seen a 'lo' reading on your glucometer?
    So the treatment is the same dietary intake, if you want to feel better then go Keto.

    Stay safe, knowing what you need to do, and the cause is carb intolerance.
     
  5. swttbsy5

    swttbsy5 Reactive hypoglycemia · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    48
    Likes Received:
    9
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Yes. The reaction does appear to be linked to rapid fluctuation in blood glucose levels. And the treatment is dietary. The keto diet absolutely works to control the problem, whatever it's called.

    Interestingly, the only times I've actually gone to true hypo levels (other than 2.1 at my first glucose tolerance test) are when I fast for too long and the ketone level goes up above 4. I can do one meal a day and ketone levels stay around 2-3. Bgl is stable around 4-4.5. I feel best on 2 meals per day though, skipping breakfast. I eat usually way less than 20g carbs per day and about 100g protein and around 200g fat. No dairy or gluten. It works for me!
     
    • Winner Winner x 1
  6. Lamont D

    Lamont D Reactive hypoglycemia · Master

    Messages:
    12,436
    Likes Received:
    15,547
    Trophy Points:
    298
    The eOGTT hypo is usually a diagnosis followed by a fasting test.
    How long can you fast before you have symptoms? And your ketones go up?

    If you're happy and in control then it's really good. It sounds great.

    Keep safe
     
  7. swttbsy5

    swttbsy5 Reactive hypoglycemia · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    48
    Likes Received:
    9
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Usually when it gets close to 24 hours and the ketones get up over 4. That's when my glucose starts to drop below 3 and I feel pretty bad.

    I've done the extended fasting test and I do not have insulimona. I did all the blood tests at around the 27 hour mark. The endo says bgl dropping when ketones get too high is normal.
     
  8. Lamont D

    Lamont D Reactive hypoglycemia · Master

    Messages:
    12,436
    Likes Received:
    15,547
    Trophy Points:
    298
    That is fine, by your answer, that was what I was getting at.....
    If you had the ketones within a few hours, I would suspect something similar.
    I do like that good news!

    Keep safe
     
  9. swttbsy5

    swttbsy5 Reactive hypoglycemia · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    48
    Likes Received:
    9
    Trophy Points:
    28
    It's taking what seems like a long time to get the ketones back up. I think it's been 3 days now and I'm still on 0.3 after the overnight fast. The highest reading I got was 0.9 yesterday, before dinner. Does anyone have experience getting back to ketosis after falling off the wagon?
     
  10. Brunneria

    Brunneria Other · Moderator
    Staff Member

    Messages:
    21,391
    Likes Received:
    34,857
    Trophy Points:
    298
    you just have to wait til your glycogen stores are depleted - which can take a few days. :)
     
  11. Lamont D

    Lamont D Reactive hypoglycemia · Master

    Messages:
    12,436
    Likes Received:
    15,547
    Trophy Points:
    298
    Three days is not enough time, you took a bad hit and you just need to have patience, fasting will help. And walking!

    Take care and stay safe.
     
  12. swttbsy5

    swttbsy5 Reactive hypoglycemia · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    48
    Likes Received:
    9
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Ah, ok. So how long has it taken in the past for either of you @Brunneria and @Lamont D to get back into ketosis after a lapse? I have noticed that exercise increases ketones for me. Why is that? Also if I do too intense or too much exercise I tend to crash. Is that the same for others? I seem to be able to handle only about 10 minutes on an exercise bike and it can't be intense - just steady.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  13. Lamont D

    Lamont D Reactive hypoglycemia · Master

    Messages:
    12,436
    Likes Received:
    15,547
    Trophy Points:
    298
    Hi again, good questions, I'm not sure about ketones but I would imagine that it will be similar to why you crash when doing exercise, especially if it makes you sweat.
    The reason is called a liver dump, of glucagon/glucose which boosts the amount of glucose in the blood.
    This is similar to eating carbs.
    Because you use your energy levels, the body/brain needs more glucose to keep your energy levels up so that you can do the exercise. This is a normal part of life.
    As you know when the liver dump happens, you need insulin to get that energy, you get too much, which makes you crash. The trigger is so similar to eating carbs.

    I used to do a lot of walking, this helps all round with your health. Being busy walking up and down stairs and so on, is enough to help with your control. Swimming, gentle aerobic exercise as long as it's not too much.

    You are going through a life-long change in your life, where you need to think about how you approach the future. Knowledge is key and the more you know about how your body works.
    We both have rare conditions, our metabolism is weird compared to the other 99.9999% of the population. There has been a lack of research on these types of conditions. The specialists know about them, but have probably never had a case.
    Most of these doctors have not gone through the long list of symptoms, hypos or the damage it does to our health.
    That is why, we need to find our own way, and do what actually works for us.

    I believe it took me two weeks (ish) in the summer to get back into ketosis.
    The only other time was when for some reason, an apple spiked me high, and it wasn't a bad situation because I nursed myself back into normal levels, by not eating too much and low carb. I was fine the next day.

    The first time, I went into Keto, was after my fasting test, and I just carried on with being in ketosis, the transition had already happened within the fasting. And I didn't get the carb flu!
    I do think that there isn't any standard time to go into ketosis, It all depends on the individual.

    Stay safe
     
    #13 Lamont D, Jan 6, 2021 at 1:01 PM
    Last edited: Jan 6, 2021
  14. swttbsy5

    swttbsy5 Reactive hypoglycemia · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    48
    Likes Received:
    9
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Thanks for all the information. It's been 6 days now and I'm getting 1.1 on the ketone test strips and bgl is normal sitting around 4. I just finished an 18 hour fast. I was starting to not feel to good by the end of it but after a meal that included less than 10 grams of carbs, I feel fine. Tuna, fried eggs, coconut and olive oils, avocado and macadamia nuts. Over 100 grams of fat. I know some people can fast longer but I feel pretty bad after more than 16 hours.
     
    • Winner Winner x 1
  15. Lamont D

    Lamont D Reactive hypoglycemia · Master

    Messages:
    12,436
    Likes Received:
    15,547
    Trophy Points:
    298
    Even though I did the 72 hours fasting test, I had to take it easy when I started intermittent fasting, I deliberately, built up how long I fasted, from twelve hours long up to 18 hours. If you can't continue then don't. As long as you are happy and getting good results, why do something that makes you ill!

    Stay safe
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  16. swttbsy5

    swttbsy5 Reactive hypoglycemia · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    48
    Likes Received:
    9
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Yeah ok, makes sense. Ketones are back to 1.9 this morning and I'm back on 2 meals a day, skipping breakfast. This works out for me as a daily 16 hour fast and that's comfortable. Things seem to have stabilised now and I feel fine again. I won't be changing things anytime soon.
     
    • Winner Winner x 2
  17. Miss.T. Morning

    Miss.T. Morning Reactive hypoglycemia · Active Member

    Messages:
    31
    Likes Received:
    24
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Hi, my diet has been a bit up and down lately too. Like you I thought I may have recovered from RH symptoms and found myself addicted to a little glucose every day. My symptoms are different to previously but still of concern and I'm going to try to get back on the wagon. What I'm interested to know is, how do you measure ketones and what would be an ideal reading?
     
    • Like Like x 1
  18. swttbsy5

    swttbsy5 Reactive hypoglycemia · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    48
    Likes Received:
    9
    Trophy Points:
    28
    I measure ketones in my blood with a freestyle libre. I imagine an ideal ketone level would differ for every individual. For me personally, I aim for between 2.0 and 3.0.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  19. bulkbiker

    bulkbiker Type 2 · Oracle

    Messages:
    17,618
    Likes Received:
    11,870
    Trophy Points:
    298
    I'm guessing you don't mean this ... the libre doesn't measure ketones only blood sugar.
     
  20. HessianHerman

    HessianHerman Type 1 · Member

    Messages:
    9
    Likes Received:
    3
    Trophy Points:
    23
    The libre reader itself, that little black monitor, can take glucose strips and ketone test strips. Although you only get ten ketone strips in a pack.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  • Meet the Community

    Find support, connect with others, ask questions and share your experiences with people with diabetes, their carers and family.

    Did you know: 7 out of 10 people improve their understanding of diabetes within 6 months of being a Diabetes Forum member. Get the Diabetes Forum App and stay connected on iOS and Android

    Grab the app!
  • Tweet with us

  • Like us on Facebook