Werther's Original Sugar Free (42g) boxed sweets. Good or bad?

[IronLioness]

The only thing I use a lollynstick for is checking the coolant level in a "header tank" on my old van..

Lol, to be fair. Shove a stick in a sweet & you have a Lollypop.. A carb laden icicle, it's an iced lolly..

@IronLioness ? One word.. Cheese! But by all means,k check to see the effects of these treats with your BG meter.... You do own a meter?

@Jaylee aahhhh, cheese, I do love me the cheeseys. Shame for me they're so high in fat, argh!!

 

[Jaylee]

Ice block here mate.

If you have ever seen the movie John Carpenter's "the Thing?" Bit of a paranoiac's nightmare come true... Iced lolly. The "embodiment" of the fantasy.

2cm from the ledge in the tank (regarding my vehicle.) & I know I'm in the right zone with the coolant. Don't even need to mark the stick, it comes up to either the start of the "joke" or the companies website address from the end of the wood.

 

[Chronicle_Cat]

Stay away from anything with maltitol - it gives most people cramping and terrible diarrhea and can spike blood sugar. Out of all the artificial sweeteners, it is the worst. Most "diabetic candy" is full of it. Years ago when on a weight loss diet, I bought some diabetic candy with it in - never again!

I agree that it's generally best to stay away from artificial sweeteners as most reactivate sugar cravings in those prone to them (like me) and focus on unprocessed food. (I've done very little low carb baking for this reason, just one dessert to take to a family Canadian Thanksgiving). I will probably make a dish for Christmas but otherwise I stay away from them.

If you do use them, erythritol or liquid Stevia is probably the best (always check labels thoroughly as some sweeteners include sugar or dextrose/maltodextrin which is worse than table sugar.) . For low carb baking recipes, I hear Carolyn Ketchum is reliable (north American measures) . https://alldayidreamaboutfood.com/blog/

Check labels and beware of those packets of granular artificial sweeteners- most use dextrose or maltodextrin as a cheap filler - it is twice as bad for diabetics as table sugar. They are not diabetic friendly at all. (I don't know if they are sold in the UK, but they are available here in north America.)

BTW cheese is not bad for most diabetics and neither is fat. A low carb diet needs fat, fat will prevent you from getting hungry and is necessary, carbs aren't. (This is especially true when you reduce carbs to lower levels.) I know it's the opposite of what you've been told.

Fat also helps slow down the digestion, reducing blood sugar spikes. Since on my goals is also weight loss, I don't add additional fat like some but I certainly try to eat healthy fats, use full fat products and I don't shy away from fat. Look at the first graphic on this page, it shows the effect of carbs, protein and fat on blood insulin. https://blog.virtahealth.com/reversing-diabetes-101-truth-about-carbs-and-blood-sugar/

I ate a low fat diet for years and tried many low fat diets. I craved cheese then (and would binge on it) because I didn't eat enough fat. (Other than sweets, my binge foods tended to be high fat like peanut butter probably because my body wasn't getting enough.)

I now eat fat (moderate amounts) and have found it much easier to lose weight than I ever did on low fat diet (almost 44 lbs lost since the end of June.) Eating more fat prevents me from being hungry all the time like I was on low fat diets

I eat to satiety (no longer hungry). I find eating low carb, I have normal hunger for the first time in my life and little desire to binge eat (the cravings were worse on low fat diets). I think that this is because eating less carbs and more fat has normalized my satiety (hunger) mechanisms.

 

[bulkbiker]

@Jaylee aahhhh, cheese, I do love me the cheeseys. Shame for me they're so high in fat, argh!!

But when you are following Low Carb High Fat diet then cheese is ok certainly while you are changing the way you eat. Higher fat food keep us fuller for longer so you won't get the pangs for sweet snacks. Cheese over Werthers any day of the week.

 

[IronLioness]

Stay away from anything with maltitol - it gives most people cramping and terrible diarrhea and can spike blood sugar. Out of all the artificial sweeteners, it is the worst. Most "diabetic candy" is full of it. Years ago when on a weight loss diet, I bought some diabetic candy with it in - never again!

I agree that it's generally best to stay away from artificial sweeteners as most reactivate sugar cravings in those prone to them (like me) and focus on unprocessed food. (I've done very little low carb baking for this reason, just one dessert to take to a family Canadian Thanksgiving). I will probably make a dish for Christmas but otherwise I stay away from them.

If you do use them, erythritol or liquid Stevia is probably the best (always check labels thoroughly as some sweeteners include sugar or dextrose/maltodextrin which is worse than table sugar.) . For low carb baking recipes, I hear Carolyn Ketchum is reliable (north American measures) . https://alldayidreamaboutfood.com/blog/

Check labels and beware of those packets of granular artificial sweeteners- most use dextrose or maltodextrin as a cheap filler - it is twice as bad for diabetics as table sugar. They are not diabetic friendly at all. (I don't know if they are sold in the UK, but they are available here in north America.)

BTW cheese is not bad for most diabetics and neither is fat. A low carb diet needs fat, fat will prevent you from getting hungry and is necessary, carbs aren't. (This is especially true when you reduce carbs to lower levels.) I know it's the opposite of what you've been told.

Fat also helps slow down the digestion, reducing blood sugar spikes. Since on my goals is also weight loss, I don't add additional fat like some but I certainly try to eat healthy fats, use full fat products and I don't shy away from fat. Look at the first graphic on this page, it shows the effect of carbs, protein and fat on blood insulin. https://blog.virtahealth.com/reversing-diabetes-101-truth-about-carbs-and-blood-sugar/

I ate a low fat diet for years and tried many low fat diets. I craved cheese then (and would binge on it) because I didn't eat enough fat. (Other than sweets, my binge foods tend to be high fat like peanut butter probably because my body wasn't getting enough.)

I now eat fat (moderate amounts) and have found it much easier to lose weight than I ever did on low fat diet (almost 44 lbs lost since the end of June.) Eating more fat prevents me from being hungry all the time like I was on low fat diets

I eat to satiety (no longer hungry). I find eating low carb, I have normal hunger for the first time in my life and little desire to binge eat (the cravings were worse on low fat diets). I think that this is because eating less carbs and more fat has normalized my satiety (hunger) mechanisms.

Thanks for this, Cat! I'm learning even more now. I'll checkout those links and what you've said about cheese is interesting, too. I do love me some cheese, maybe it's time to have a look at the cheesey options again.

 

[IronLioness]

But when you are following Low Carb High Fat diet then cheese is ok certainly while you are changing the way you eat. Higher fat food keep us fuller for longer so you won't get the pangs for sweet snacks. Cheese over Werthers any day of the week.

That's a good point bulkbiker, I'm going shopping later, I'll check out the landscape. I never knew those sugar free sweets were so bad for you! Thank goodness for you guys and these forums!

 

[bulkbiker]

That's a good point bulkbiker, I'm going shopping later, I'll check out the landscape. I never knew those sugar free sweets were so bad for you! Thank goodness for you guys and these forums!

They're not necessarily "bad" for you but if you are serious about changing the way you eat to manage Type 2 then the whole "replacement" thing I find just prolongs the agony.. just cut down to foods that don't raise your blood sugar.
Cheese, eggs, meat, fish, green veg, cream, butter all those things that we have been told for so long are "wrong" when in fact they are great. Satiating, full of goodness and yummy.. whats not to like ?

 

[IronLioness]

They're not necessarily "bad" for you but if you are serious about changing the way you eat to manage Type 2 then the whole "replacement" thing I find just prolongs the agony.. just cut down to foods that don't raise your blood sugar.
Cheese, eggs, meat, fish, green veg, cream, butter all those things that we have been told for so long are "wrong" when in fact they are great. Satiating, full of goodness and yummy.. whats not to like ?

You're totally right and I agree in the long term, but initially, when breaking the habits of a lifetime, I think it's better to replace rather than cut out, as usually that's when binging occurs. If sweet treats (or other foods) are a norm, better to find a replacement for the moment then gradually phase out. I'm definitely looking longer term, but I'm trying to be realistic with my own individual eating patterns, or rather, breaking them and forming/staying consistent in the longer term. I definitely don't want to hinder the process. But these sugar free sweet things are definitely going in the bin now!

 

[bulkbiker]

You're totally right and I agree in the long term, but initially, when breaking the habits of a lifetime, I think it's better to replace rather than cut out, as usually that's when binging occurs. If sweet treats (or other foods) are a norm, better to find a replacement for the moment then gradually phase out. I'm definitely looking longer term, but I'm trying to be realistic with my own individual eating patterns, or rather, breaking them and forming/staying consistent in the longer term. I definitely don't want to hinder the process. But these sugar free sweet things are definitely going in the bin now!

Depends on your personality.. I found that like smoking it was easier to stop cold turkey than try to wean myself off.. you just need to find the right motivator. For me and smoking it was no kisses because my new partner (now husband) hated the smell of smoke - for food it was the thought of amputations and blindness. Once you have those motivating factors fixed in your head the whole journey becomes simpler. Even now after 3 years of no bread if I have a bread type food it triggers all the old "I must eat all of this now" mind games that I used to experience. You can't be a moderate alcoholic.. and I don't think you can be a moderate carbo-holic. Also getting those poison like foods out of your life asap means you get far better immediate results which provides its own motivations..
But hey that's just my ramblings we must all do what we feel will work best for us... but if you have tried and failed with moderation in the past then why carry on with a failed mechanism.. try something new instead.

 

[IronLioness]

Depends on your personality.. I found that like smoking it was easier to stop cold turkey than try to wean myself off.. you just need to find the right motivator. For me and smoking it was no kisses because my new partner (now husband) hated the smell of smoke - for food it was the thought of amputations and blindness. Once you have those motivating factors fixed in your head the whole journey becomes simpler. Even now after 3 years of no bread if I have a bread type food it triggers all the old "I must eat all of this now" mind games that I used to experience. You can't be a moderate alcoholic.. and I don't think you can be a moderate carbo-holic. Also getting those poison like foods out of your life asap means you get far better immediate results which provides its own motivations..
But hey that's just my ramblings we must all do what we feel will work best for us... but if you have tried and failed with moderation in the past then why carry on with a failed mechanism.. try something new instead.

I hear what you're saying but you hit the nail on the head with the personality element. Each to their own on how to handle it, but make sure changes are made none the less. I've had my wake up call and motivator in being diagnosed with it, my Father has it and I don't want to go down that route. I'm making the changes and I'm looking at it long term. But, I need to be realistic, too. Alternatives are needed, because there will be those sh*tty days when old habits die hard, so to make sure I stay on track I'm finding alternatives. Instead of sweet stuffs when a craving hits, I thought of those sugar free things, now I know they're equally as bad as sweets, out they go, and I'll find other healthy BG friendly alternatives. If I was of a super strict mindset and disciplined as heck I'd have no problem cutting out old habits totally, but I'm not, and I want to be smart about this going forward. Options are needed to maintain a healthy realistic lifestyle.

I agree with you on the "can't be a moderate alcoholic/carboholic", but, it forms the principle of finding alternatives. For those that need it, they find an alternative to carb laden foods, find an alternative to alcohol or whatever their 'drug' of choice is.

Moderation is not the problem, the mindset behind it is. Reactions and behaviours to the 'drug' of choice. Ridding old habits and changing them for new healthy ones, which is sustainable, to support not hinder D. Change the mindset in whatever way needed. I don't believe a person can just cut out old habits totally without there being a backlash binge later on down the line somewhere, which is what I'm aiming at avoiding. Or trying to!

 

[shelley262]

I hear what you're saying but you hit the nail on the head with the personality element. Each to their own on how to handle it, but make sure changes are made none the less. I've had my wake up call and motivator in being diagnosed with it, my Father has it and I don't want to go down that route. I'm making the changes and I'm looking at it long term. But, I need to be realistic, too. Alternatives are needed, because there will be those sh*tty days when old habits die hard, so to make sure I stay on track I'm finding alternatives. Instead of sweet stuffs when a craving hits, I thought of those sugar free things, now I know they're equally as bad as sweets, out they go, and I'll find other healthy BG friendly alternatives. If I was of a super strict mindset and disciplined as heck I'd have no problem cutting out old habits totally, but I'm not, and I want to be smart about this going forward. Options are needed to maintain a healthy realistic lifestyle.

I agree with you on the "can't be a moderate alcoholic/carboholic", but, it forms the principle of finding alternatives. For those that need it, they find an alternative to carb laden foods, find an alternative to alcohol or whatever their 'drug' of choice is.

Moderation is not the problem, the mindset behind it is. Reactions and behaviours to the 'drug' of choice. Ridding old habits and changing them for new healthy ones, which is sustainable, to support not hinder D. Change the mindset in whatever way needed. I don't believe a person can just cut out old habits totally without there being a backlash binge later on down the line somewhere, which is what I'm aiming at avoiding. Or trying to!

Hi @IronLioness sounds like you’re really moving forward with making changes and improvements - brilliant. I do however see where you are coming from on the sweet replacement front. Personally - although I did initially give up on most sweet things except for 100% chocolate for about a month last Autumn as Christmas drew closer I found I needed to put some alternatives in to my way of eating. My inclusion of small amounts of sweet type stuff for me has meant that a year later I’m still sticking at it and still in keto. But it is individual and I’ve found I can do this without triggering over eating, raising my bgs or my weight. You could always experiment and see how it is for you. Most important rules I’ve stuck by though are
Small amounts of my sugar replacement treats
Always using erythritol (or when recipe needs liquid - with stevia drops) this for me has zero impact on my bgs
Always having as a pudding rather than a snack - I try generally to avoid snacking
Using fat based puddings a fair bit eg mousses made from double cream and a bit of stevia or egg custards made from erythritol and cream with eggs or mixing nut butter with double cream you can be full and happy on small amounts
Having small bits of chocolate at 90 to 100% cocoa - when started out had 85% and worked my way up! Can also be melted and mixed with cream and bit of stevia to make chocolate mousse!
Baking lowcarb cakes or pudding and then using portion control - serving with full fat yoghurt or double cream
I’ve found including fatwith a low carb pudding fills me and stops me wanting more.
As @bulkbiker says though this won’t work with everyone as it may trigger a previous sugar addiction. My issue wasn’t sugar addiction per se I didn’t eat many puddings before diagnosis it was lots of fruit and fruit juice that I was crazy about and I just ate way too many supposedly healthy whole grain carbs and fruit @nd as everything was low fat I’d just eat another banana, kiwi fruit or a snack like whole meal toast with low fat spread if I was hungry - which I generally was!
Hope this helps but as @Chronicle_Cat says do be careful with sweetners you use some like malitol can raise your bgs you need to find one like erythritol or stevia and then check your blood glucose two hours later to make sure it’s okay for you.
Good luck and hope you manage to work out a way of eating that improves your health but also you enjoy and is sustainable for you over the longer term

 

[Chronicle_Cat]

In further reply to @shelley262 's post - I too, only have occasional puddings (desserts as we say here in Canada), I've also cut out snacking completely as I find I get better blood glucose levels (not snacking gives the body time to adjust after eating a meal before bombarding it with more glucose) and weight loss without snacks. Cutting out the evening snack was the hardest thing for me as it's been a lifelong habit acquired from when I was a child.

If I have dessert immediately after a meal, I have 1 square of Lindt 90% chocolate occasionally (it doesn't raise my blood sugar or trigger sugar cravings and I can easily stop at 1) or I will have a small bowl of pork rinds (pork scratchings.) A friend with Type 2 recommended flavoured liquid Stevia drops in tea (I can't drink coffee). However for me, using it did trigger sugar cravings so I stopped. (She doesn't crave sweets the way I do - before she was diagnosed, she kept open candy dishes in her house and never touched them. I could never as it would trigger a sugar binge and I'd overeat them.) I'm reserving the flavoured liquid Stevia for the small amount of low carb baking with erythritol or liquid Stevia I'll do at Christmas.

 

[IronLioness]

Hi @IronLioness sounds like you’re really moving forward with making changes and improvements - brilliant. I do however see where you are coming from on the sweet replacement front. Personally - although I did initially give up on most sweet things except for 100% chocolate for about a month last Autumn as Christmas drew closer I found I needed to put some alternatives in to my way of eating. My inclusion of small amounts of sweet type stuff for me has meant that a year later I’m still sticking at it and still in keto. But it is individual and I’ve found I can do this without triggering over eating, raising my bgs or my weight. You could always experiment and see how it is for you. Most important rules I’ve stuck by though are
Small amounts of my sugar replacement treats
Always using erythritol (or when recipe needs liquid - with stevia drops) this for me has zero impact on my bgs
Always having as a pudding rather than a snack - I try generally to avoid snacking
Using fat based puddings a fair bit eg mousses made from double cream and a bit of stevia or egg custards made from erythritol and cream with eggs or mixing nut butter with double cream you can be full and happy on small amounts
Having small bits of chocolate at 90 to 100% cocoa - when started out had 85% and worked my way up! Can also be melted and mixed with cream and bit of stevia to make chocolate mousse!
Baking lowcarb cakes or pudding and then using portion control - serving with full fat yoghurt or double cream
I’ve found including fatwith a low carb pudding fills me and stops me wanting more.
As @bulkbiker says though this won’t work with everyone as it may trigger a previous sugar addiction. My issue wasn’t sugar addiction per se I didn’t eat many puddings before diagnosis it was lots of fruit and fruit juice that I was crazy about and I just ate way too many supposedly healthy whole grain carbs and fruit @nd as everything was low fat I’d just eat another banana, kiwi fruit or a snack like whole meal toast with low fat spread if I was hungry - which I generally was!
Hope this helps but as @Chronicle_Cat says do be careful with sweetners you use some like malitol can raise your bgs you need to find one like erythritol or stevia and then check your blood glucose two hours later to make sure it’s okay for you.
Good luck and hope you manage to work out a way of eating that improves your health but also you enjoy and is sustainable for you over the longer term

Hiya @shelley262 I'm definitely trying and it feels like a mindset change is occurring, I've changed my work schedule to reduce the stress element which was off the scale, the fitness side of things has been increased (in a healthy way) and I'm back training like I used to, and the food has been totally on point. I listened to all the advice and the sugar free sweets have been binned and instead I went and bought some high protein cheese, I'm now checking nutritional information before buying anything, I'm turning down any starchy carbs at restaurants etc, as well as doing my BG test tracking. I'm really serious about making the changes needed to try and reverse/in remission of this by Jan, if possible. Not sure how realistic that is, but I'll have a go. My thinking is go hardcore, make this new way of life a habit, keep consistent and try and be as disciplined as needed. The last two have been my downfall, previously. Doh...

I'm trying to make sure I'm being realistic with everything. I actually agree with bulkbiker, re the can't be part carboholic etc and I'd love to be able to cut out altogether and be done with it, but I know my downfalls and its going to be more sustainable for me to just find healthy alternatives to foods I used to eat. I must look odd when shopping, nothing goes in the basket unless I know roughly the carbs, sugar, protein, fat and general nutritional breakdown, I'm turning into a food geek!

I love the suggestions you've listed, they're great ideas and especially as Christmas is on the way. That's always the toughest season to get through, so many temptations everywhere. But I'll try out some of those, really helpful, thanks Shelley

You guys have been super helpful, your advice has been invaluable to me as a newby. I really do appreciate it because there's so much information out there, it's difficult to know what to look for - example, today when I was out shopping, I was spot checking ingredients for malitol which @Chronicle_Cat mentioned, excellent information because I'd never have known about that

Thanks again, I appreciate all the comments, you guys have been great and I'm making notes on the suggestions I'm getting

 

[IronLioness]

In further reply to @shelley262 's post - I too, only have occasional puddings (desserts as we say here in Canada), I've also cut out snacking completely as I find I get better blood glucose levels (not snacking gives the body time to adjust after eating a meal before bombarding it with more glucose) and weight loss without snacks. Cutting out the evening snack was the hardest thing for me as it's been a lifelong habit acquired from when I was a child.

If I have dessert immediately after a meal, I have 1 square of Lindt 90% chocolate occasionally (it doesn't raise my blood sugar or trigger sugar cravings and I can easily stop at 1) or I will have a small bowl of pork rinds (pork scratchings.) A friend with Type 2 recommended flavoured liquid Stevia drops in tea (I can't drink coffee). However for me, using it did trigger sugar cravings so I stopped. (She doesn't crave sweets the way I do - before she was diagnosed, she kept open candy dishes in her house and never touched them. I could never as it would trigger a sugar binge and I'd overeat them.) I'm reserving the flavoured liquid Stevia for the small amount of low carb baking with erythritol or liquid Stevia I'll do at Christmas.

Thanks for this @Chronicle_Cat I'd like to go down the same route and cut out everything apart from the 3 meals a day. I'm doing some pretty intense fitness training at the moment (Phil Graham's Diabetic's 90 day body transformation programme) so I'm balancing meals around training. My sweet tooth isn't too strong, it's manageable, it's the other stuff (savoury) that I've had a tough time staying consistent with in the past. I think with this diagnosis it's pretty much kicked me up the butt to sort my discipline out so I'm trying to get into a routine with training and food to fuel the fitness. Everything I 'used' to eat has gone. Today I was out with friends for dinner and there were French fries and trimmings served up - they *all* got left, not one was scoffed (as they would have been polished off in the past), it sounds such a small thing, but it was a mini-win for my willpower haha!

I love the idea of Stevia drops in tea, that's a great idea! I think I'll try that, thanks! So many ideas I'm scribbling down!

 

[carty]

Savoury nibbles are what I crave but almonds rubbed with oil and sprinkled with chilli powder and salt then a quick blast in the micro can keep me away from crisps etc I could murder someone walking past with a box of Pringles .!!
Carol

 

[IronLioness]

Savoury nibbles are what I crave but almonds rubbed with oil and sprinkled with chilli powder and salt then a quick blast in the micro can keep me away from crisps etc I could murder someone walking past with a box of Pringles .!!
Carol

Hi Carol, this is an excellent idea!! I'll test this one out as it sounds delicious! I'm the same, savoury foods are my downfall, Inc the Pringles, goddamn them! I'm thinking I could bake some veggies instead, and they could be the new 'crisps'. I'll stay away from that for as long as possible, though, maybe Christmas time when everyone else is tucking into the carb heavy snacks. I'll just be sat over there with ma pieces of baked veg, mmmm tasty, hehe!

It's this time of year that gets me, there's SO many savoury snacks on the shelves, I need blinkers, like a shire horse, to get around the supermarket!

 

[bulkbiker]

Hi Carol, this is an excellent idea!! I'll test this one out as it sounds delicious! I'm the same, savoury foods are my downfall, Inc the Pringles, goddamn them! I'm thinking I could bake some veggies instead, and they could be the new 'crisps'. I'll stay away from that for as long as possible, though, maybe Christmas time when everyone else is tucking into the carb heavy snacks. I'll just be sat over there with ma pieces of baked veg, mmmm tasty, hehe!

It's this time of year that gets me, there's SO many savoury snacks on the shelves, I need blinkers, like a shire horse, to get around the supermarket!

Pork scratchings for the crunch?

 

[IronLioness]

Pork scratchings for the crunch?

Ooh! Now that's a great idea!! Thanks!

 

[Chronicle_Cat]

0 carbs in pork scratchings (Here we call them "pork rinds.)

I also like cheese crisps (all cheese, I buy a brand from Italy called Grok Si . They only contain cheese (grana padano).

Apparently you make your own. I've been experimenting with this recipe.
https://www.dietdoctor.com/recipes/keto-cheese-chips
(If they are bendy, they haven't been cooked long enough or not sliced think enough.) You can also use little mounds of grated cheese. (Don't use preshredded cheese, they put cornstarch in it which isn't good for us, grate or shred your own.) I've been microwaving each one 1-2 minutes (depends on your microwave) , blotting off any extra grease & refrigerating before eating. (I prefer a small quantity.) I've tried both cheddar and parmesan, My homemade ones aren't as crunchy as the store bought ones (parmesan is crisper.)

 

[HSSS]

0 carbs in pork scratchings (Here we call them "pork rinds.)

I also like cheese crisps (all cheese, I buy a brand from Italy called Grok Si . They only contain cheese (grana padano).

Apparently you make your own. I've been experimenting with this recipe.
https://www.dietdoctor.com/recipes/keto-cheese-chips
(If they are bendy, they haven't been cooked long enough or not sliced think enough.) You can also use little mounds of grated cheese. (Don't use preshredded cheese, they put cornstarch in it which isn't good for us, grate or shred your own.) I've been microwaving each one 1-2 minutes (depends on your microwave) , blotting off any extra grease & refrigerating before eating. (I prefer a small quantity.) I've tried both cheddar and parmesan, My homemade ones aren't as crunchy as the store bought ones (parmesan is crisper.)

I tried adding a LITTLE coconut flour to grated cheese. It absorbs the oil and makes it a bit crisper.