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What's right for one is wrong for another

R

raydavies

Well-Known Member
Messages
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There are regular outbreaks of high fat/low fat and high carb/low carb skirmishes on this forum. Here are my thoughts.

To me it matters not what this survey or another survey says, the only correct course is what works for you, or in this case me.

I joined this forum when the blurry vision and extreme pain in my fingers, tendons and feet was getting frightening. This in turn, led me to question the standard diet that's churned out by the NHS professionals. Against my GP's advice I started testing and was appalled at the readings. Almost any carb whether high GI or low GI sent my BG soaring. Just 3 Nairns Oatcakes took me to 10.8 after 1 hour and 9.9 after 2. Fasting was never less than 8.

Having read everything I could both here and in a number of controversial books, I started low carbing and it worked. My fasting BG is around 6.1 and 2 hours after a meal it's between 5.6 and 6.8. My vision has cleared and my pains have gone!

Just because advice has been around for 20 years or more does not make it right.

My late father-in-law was fond of telling anyone who'd listen (he was skilled at emptying a room!) that Pirrelli tyres were the very best available. Why? He apparently bought some in 1936 and they lasted longer than others he'd bought. Why he thought the quality was the same in 1997 was never explained. To me, this is the same thinking that pollutes discussions on diet.

Am I running a risk by following a high fat/low carb diet? I don't think so judging from the evidence I've seen. But, I would be running one hell of a risk if I'd followed the "healthcare professional's" advice and continued allowing by BG to run riot. As I said elsewhere on this forum, you don't put a fire out by pouring petrol on it. However, I am aware that some happily follow the standard diet without problems. I am certain though, there are thousands who are consigning themselves to a horrible future by toeing the line without question.

Ray
 
Hi raydavies,
Not all healthcare professionals give bad advice to diabetics and so it is wrong to generalise. My team gave me very sound advice in the beginning and it has worked for me.

I am quite happy for everyone to follow a dietary plan that works for them. What I don't want is to be told that a particular approach is the only way forward. There are plenty of diabetics that moderate all food groups and do perfectly well. Some can even follow the high carb approach with no adverse effects. There is no right or wrong way and it is arrogant for people to think that they can manage anyone else's diabetes. We all have different lifestyles, different likes and dislikes with regard to food and exercise.
This forum is excellent in that it caters for all diets and anyone needing advice can ask for help. The advice that is given to newbies from Cugila and Sue is not a blueprint of any particular diet but is full of suggestions and shows that the key to good control is testing your responses to foods. That is the biggest problem for the newly diagnosed as some are denied this very vital tool and it is the only way forward for all diabetics.

I am glad that your diet works for you and that you feel good. I follow a different plan and have not had any diabetes related problems.

Catherine.
 
Ay Up Ray,

I'm with you mate, I was told to eat high carb stuff such as pasta and wholemeal bread. Was a nightmare, I only have to have one mouthfull and my head hurts, vision goes blurry and my BG goes through the roof.

Low carbing is doing the trick for me big time, my BG is now pretty steady at 5 or 6.

Carl
 
The thing is, as Catherine says, that others are finding they manage fine with different ways of tackling their eating. And that's fine. It should be emphasised with great regularity.

What's wrong is that many people are denied knowledge and choice when diganosed, and that's where people's annoyance comes in, which makes them vociferous. When they find out they were denied knowledge, they react angrily. This forum is about informing people of their choices, something that not all DNs do, as they toe the NHS line naturally. That's why info about the effect of carbs and the need to test are given out so regularly. But that isn't the same as implying you should low carb. Each person has to assess their diet in the light of what they learn from their knowledge and their testing, and then make choices.

But I still want this forum to be a place where people can say "this worked for me" (whichever way they jump) without being made to feel a lesser being. One thing I keep remembering as I read the varied comments and views here is that people get diagnosed at very different points on the DB trajectory, and it is this fact that seriously affects their choices even after gaining food knowledge and testing. To me, more knowledge is more power and I want people to keep posting their different views and experiences. It can only help me in the long run. And I hate bickering that turns nasty! We need a safe place to turn, even if not everyone agrees on their views.
DG
 
theblokefromstoke said:
Was a nightmare, I only have to have one mouthfull and my head hurts, vision goes blurry and my BG goes through the roof.

Carl
Click to expand...

Sounds like a typical Saturday night out where I come from! :lol:

Anyway 'blokefromstoke', do you know Phil Taylor, Adrian Lewis or Andy Hamilton. I'm a big dart fan for my sins, and these three are sporting giants in the game.

I was at Port Vale Football Club about two years ago, and at the Britannia Stadium the year before that, might have a look in next time Im passing, see if I can find the haunts where these dart players hang out.

Nigel
 
Most of the people on this forum are very switched on to all the different aspects of diabetes and it is a good thing to keep informed of developments and also to be aware of the dangers of doing anything to excess. There is no ‘one way’ to control your diabetes because we are all unique and what suits one person does not necessarily suit another so we need to self test whether we are T1 or T2 to avoid the dreadful complications of uncontrolled diabetes.

Since my own diagnosis I have discovered that some of my friends and acquaintances also have diabetes but just ignore it. One lady said she just cut out sugar except for the slice of cake and chocolate biscuit she has with her morning coffee and afternoon tea. A man of my acquaintance said his doctor wasn’t worried so why should he be. Another said the DN had told him that his Hba1c of 9 was ‘fine’ and he saw no reason to worry and he had no apparent problems. He didn’t listen to scaremongers either - meant me I guess! :shock: :roll:

The problem is that many who work hard to control their condition by following the NHS standard diet advice end up with complications which they need not have had if the advice had been correct since all of those compliant people would undoubtedly have been compliant with whatever advice they were given.

In the same that Ray says you don’t put out a fire by feeding it with petrol then common sense should tell you that if the pancreas is not working you don’t feed it with glucose via starchy carbohydrates which is the advice that I was given. There seems to be a dearth of common sense and more importantly a lack of information and education.

Judging by the posts on this forum, which can reasonably said to be representative of a good cross section of people, there even seems to be great efforts made to prevent people from informing themselves and learning how to control their condition as in the denial of testing strips etc. I wonder if this is because very few of the professionals actually have diabetes themselves and are working from book knowledge only so they perhaps do not realise how differently people are affected. Perhaps it is even in the ‘too difficult box’. :cry:
 
I too was told to eat lots of startchy foods and flour based ones.
After trying that I was gaining weight, which was definately not wanted.
So after reading and reading again the posts on here I started low carbing and the results were imediately noticable.
So now Since Nov 2009 I have lost 3 stone in weight, 6 inches around the waistline and am down to a size 36 in jeans.
My goal is a size 34, maybe if I feel good a size 32.
 
What's wrong is that many people are denied knowledge and choice when diganosed, and that's where people's annoyance comes in, which makes them vociferous. When they find out they were denied knowledge, they react angrily. This forum is about informing people of their choices, something that not all DNs do, as they toe the NHS line naturally.
Click to expand...

Spot on! The greatest value here is the variety of viewpoints. It should be remembered they are viewpoints, though cases based on personal experience are of of greater validity.

What happened to you is of far greater interest than what you've been told.

As I write this I can see my neighbour who is, like me, type 2. He's 7 years younger than me, looks older and trudges around all day "keeping active". He was told a few years ago that he should eat porridge and it seems his knowledge of diet goes no further than that. He eats 2 or 3 unmeasured bowls of it per day. I had a discussion with him the other day and he expressed surprise when I informed him that porridge was high in carbs! He said his last A1c was 7.25 and was told that was fine. I shudder to think what his "highs" are.

The reason I mention this is because he is aware that his BG goes high but when given the porridge advice was told to keep moving to burn it up. The poor man is now on a treadmill of digging, sawing, hammering and generally finding things to do. He spent 3 days scraping the roof of his house! The sad thing is, he is going downhill. He's losing muscle, eyesight and slowing down generally. He also has massive mood swings He's a bit of a Luddite so has no computer and won't listen to any other ideas about his diet. He believes the
"professionals" know what they're doing and he "doesn't want to know about it all".

Not having access to this and other forums, he's at the mercy of the NHS doctrine. Although he is, in many respects, his own worst enemy, it's sad to see his plight.

Ray
 
As everyone knows, I'm a low carber.
I do agree that everyone has to find their own way of life, but I would say. The "standard dietary advice" works for very few people. Controlled carbs work for pretty much everybody.
The variation in the equation is the individual. It's like teaching Arithmetic. There are plenty of ways of learning how to manipulate numbers and compute a correct answer. Learning multiplication tables and number bonds will work for anyone who uses it. Those who don't learn these old fashioned strategies, have to do something else, which may be used by few others successfully.
People have to decide how much they want something and what effort they are prepared to make.
Hana
 
It can work the other way round as well.
My surgery and HCP's are proactive in giving good advice, tailored to the individual and supply testing strips for all diabetics.
I have sat in on three Education Days for newly diagnosed diabetics as my GP thinks that my experience in managing diabetes can be of help to newly diagnosed. In total there are three of us who do this.
The last group had 12 participants and 5 of these made it very plain that they were not going to be told anything. Excuses were pretty lame and included,
.....I like cakes/sweets and will not be told what to eat.
.....I cook for a family and it wouldn't be fair on them.
.....I dont care, it's only diabetes.
.....I'm too old to change my eating habits.
.....My husband knows someone with diabetes and they don't do all this
No amount of explanations as to why it was important to manage diabetes and avoid complications changed their views. Any suggestions as to portion control and eliminating certain foods fell on deaf ears. Explaining why it is essential to test and how to test was not well received either. One of them even decided that it was all a waste of time and left the class.

I came away wondering how these people could be helped or what, if anything, the HCP's could do to change their minds. These are people who do care and have the right tools to make diabetes manageable and they must be so frustrated.
 
.....I cook for a family and it wouldn't be fair on them.
Click to expand...

This excuse had always infuriated me as I now cook meals special for me, yet still cook for my son and daughter whatever it is they want.
 
As a new member, I hope you don't mind my input on this subject. Having been diagnosed T2 in December, I expected a lot of advice from my GP and Practice nurse, but other than try to eat healthily and lose weight, there was a dearth of any diet information.
I have a monitor and check my levels daily. I average 7.2 before food am and 9.2 in the evening.
I was around 19 when diagnosed.
I want to get my levels to a more acceptable level, because I want to stay healthy!
My dad died in 1999 from diabetic complications, and despite sticking to a frugal diet, as was advocated by the NHS, he fell victim to lost eyesight and a leg amputation.
Accordingly, I am acutely aware of what diabetes can mean, and how it can shorten your life.
I have been trying to eat healthily, salads, veg, fruit. No alcohol and I am a non smoker, however after an initial weight loss on Metformin of 1 stone, my meds were changed to Gliclazide and I am struggling to lose any more weight.
I have been reading the posts on low card diets, and as I LOVE bread, porridge, potatoes, etc; I can see that my diet is high in carbs. However, what do I eat instead?
Does this mean that I should avoid a banana sandwich on wholemeal bread?
I would appreciate any advice from experienced advocates of low carbs.
Also, the posts reflect the confusion which appears to exist on whether to follow a low carb or high carb diet.
Everyone is different, and whilst there is a danger of people appearing too dogmatic in their views, as someone who really is trying to find what diet suits me best, I for one am grateful for the open and frank exchange of views which exists on this forum!
 
This is a interesting discussion, I agree (in part) to most of what has been said. The consensus so far is that there is no right or wrong way as Catherine does states, and Raydavis is quite correct when he says : 'the only correct course is what works for you'.

Unlike Hana and Catherine, I don't attend/participate in any groups with regards to diabetes. However, more recently I attended a DAFNE course at my local infirmary. There was 9 of us altogether, all of us type 1 having had the condition from 1 year to 43 years. During the first hour, it is a discussion about your previous days control, food consumed (carbs) insulin given and bg's throughout the day, with the exception of myself, there was only one other person who ate a reduced carb diet. This person and I both eat around the 100-120g per day.

I was surprised to find that non of the other people had exceptionally high hba1c's, the highest being about 8.5, the rest around the 7 mark and two even had quite low results, 5.7 and 5.9, which was astounding considering they ate a conventional diet. I did ask why they came on the course as there hba1c's being in the 5's was very good, and I was told it was to gain more knowledge of carb counting and insulin ratio's, which is the focus of DAFNE.

Although at the start of the week, trends were starting to appear in peoples daily routine, in a nutshell it was plain to see that there was evidence that we were all under-estimating the carb content of our food, and not giving the correct insulin to match. Some won't even aware that their bodies required less/more insulin at certain times of the day. After analysing our diary, the course co-ordinators corrected us all and showed us where we were going wrong, and how to correct this now and in the future. The fundamentals of the course is to show patients how to adjust their insulin to the food they eat, not the other way round, and to establish what ratio of insulin we need to match each 10g of carbs at various meal-times throughout the day. At the end of the week, everyones control had improved, and most of us felt like we had finally grasped the concept of how it all works, and could see where we had gone wrong in the past.

My resons for telling this story is to say that it is not all about diet choice, it is vitally important also to know how our bodies work, how they react to meds and insulin, and to know what carbs are in the foods we eat so that we can make adjustments to suit. I think what is missing in a lot of people who have unstable diabetes is education, what I mean here is that they should be taught on the onset how to control their condition effectively. Courses such as DAFNE and the X-pert course for type 2's should be routinely provided to new patients on diagnosis. As the saying goes: ' Knowledge is power'.

Sorry about the long post!

Nigel
 
Nigel I was really inspired by your post and that of others. Simply because I actually believed that I was in control of my diabetes and clearly the people in your group are reasonably controlled too and yet had lots to learn from the course. My HBa1c's are usually around 7.2 - 7.4 and I am always told this is good. My actual daily BG measurements range hugely and highs of over 11 are not unusual. One doctor told me this is because I am a "brittle" diabetic and not to worry because my HBa1c is good. I also asked to be put on a carb counting course which was recommended to me by the diabetic nurse. The doctor told me I didnt need it as my control is good. Last month I discovered that I have early stages of diabetic retinopathy. I am a strong person always in control of my life and hardships i have encountered but this hit me hard. I became very depressed and felt so alone. I recieved a letter from the hospital simply stating I had signed of early retinopathy and no action was required but no explanation, no follow up, no indication of what this meant. I am now going to insist I am put on the course and stamp my feet until they listen or I amy not have my feet to stamp for much longer.
 
Thank you Maryracheal,

I think what your doctor is refering to when he says you are a 'brittle diabetic' is the swings in your blood glucose levels throughout the day, brittle diabetes can include other conditions, but in this instance, and in view of what you have written it looks to be meaning the fluctuation in bg's.

A hba1c of 7.2-7.4 isn't bad, but it isn't good either, although your doc has insisted it is. The high's of over 11 are something you need to address, and going on a carb counting course would almost certainly help you to minimise the high's and stabilise control more effectively. I would go back and insist that your name is placed on the waiting list for a course in your area. Use your recent scare with diabetic retinopathy as a casing point to strengthen your case.

I have had diabetic retinopathy myself in the past, and it is a wake up call. I was told by my consultant that good diabetes control and blood pressure were paramount in preventing problems worsening. Pleased your eyes are stable and no action is required, but do make that appointment and put your case forward.

best wishes

Nigel
 
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