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When it all gets to much?

CatLadyNZ said:
Hi Sco81, I agree with you wholeheartedly about people's ignorant comments. I am politely assertive with them and push back a little... the sensible ones get the message and start asking for info instead of giving ignorant views, the others ignore what I say and continue... so if I can I quietly drop them out of my life but if they are workmates or close family, I change the subject and limit opportunities for them to comment.

I am concerned about your BG levels and symptoms like needing to go to the toilet in the night. It may well be possible to get your diabetes under better control. I'm no expert on the other types of diabetes but there is info available on conditions like MODY and Monogenic diabetes, that you might be interested in exploring, and I have put some links below. Hopefully others with these conditions will comment.

I am wondering if you might need to go on insulin, since you are taking several diabetes meds and your BGs are not yet well controlled. If you can't get a useful response from your GP, ask for a referral to an endocrinologist. Good luck and let us know how you get on.

http://www.diabetes.co.uk/which-type-of-diabetes.html

http://www.phlaunt.com/diabetes/14047009.php

http://www.phlaunt.com/diabetes/18382053.php
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Your so on it CatLadyNZ, even though I'm a DogLadyUK....I degress.
 
Hi. Are you sure you are T2 and not Late onset T1? At your age unless vastly overweight you are more likely to be late onset T1 (LADA) then T2. I would ask the GP to do the two tests for LADA i.e. GAD and c-peptide. All diabetes is influenced by genetics but I would question 'geneticT2' as such as a diagnosis.
 
Sco81 said:
Hello everyone, I'm at the stage now when it's all boiling over. I was diagnosed with a genetic t2. I find people treat me like I inflicted this on myself, and if I did this and I do that I 1 wouldn't have got it and 2 I would control it without meds. I don't understand why everyone has to have an opinion on my illness.
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You usually find that, the less people know about something, the stronger their opinions about it are. Have you had the one "Your diabetic, so that just means you can't have sugar in your tea and you'll be okay"? Or "Well I know someone who's been diabetic for years and he doesn't let it bother him. He eats all sorts". Of course it doesn't even occur to them that the guy is killing himself.
 
Daibell said:
. . . . . but I would question 'geneticT2' as such as a diagnosis.
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The NHS would suggest differently:

http://www.nhs.uk/conditions/Diabetes-type2/Pages/Introduction.aspx

"Although all adults are at risk of developing type 2 diabetes, a number of groups have a particularly high risk of developing the condition.

Your risk of developing type 2 diabetes is increased if:
  • you have a close family member with diabetes (a parent, brother or sister)"
My skinny father is type II as was his skinny sister. Genetics or epigenetics, the NHS suggest that I was at a higher risk. I'm not suggesting that extra pounds and a poor lifestyle didn't have an effect on me becoming diabetics (that's where epigenetics comes in).

I know several elderly people (80+) who would make me look like twiggy, no sign of diabetes whatsoever.
 
Daibell said:
Hi. Are you sure you are T2 and not Late onset T1? At your age unless vastly overweight you are more likely to be late onset T1 (LADA) then T2. I would ask the GP to do the two tests for LADA i.e. GAD and c-peptide. All diabetes is influenced by genetics but I would question 'geneticT2' as such as a diagnosis.
Click to expand...
@Sco81, I second this. I was going to say, Are you low carbing? That's the only thing you haven't mentioned. All that exercise and high drugs sounds really odd.

If your dr is no good, can you get a GAD antibody test privately? You really don't sound like T 2. And yes, this uninformed rubbish about bringing it on yourself is nonsense. It's insulin, too much if it, that causes obesity, not the other way around.

Think about a test.

Good luck, Lucy
 
Yes it must be immensely frustrating as a Type 2, as sufferers are often painted as individuals inflicted it in on themselves.

But to play Devil's advocate...

I think the general populace just see the statistics and the headlines, the facts are that 85% of Type 2 diabetics are overweight and have BMI's over 25, which is a well established risk factor for Type 2s, as highlighted by the recent report Type 2 diabetics make up ~90% of all diabetic diagnoses and diabetes is costing the NHS billions every year.

Of course Joe public is going to be concerned and have an opinion on it and why shouldn't they?

When I look around it's rare to see an adult that isn't carrying excess weight, many don't understand food macros, don't calorie count and don't really have a clue what they are putting into their bodies. It only requires to overeat by a few hundred calories a day (a BLT sandwich or a large morning latte) consistently and you'll slowly gain weight year in year out.

Creating a calorific deficit is the keystone to fat and weightloss, it's boring and it takes real self discipline, in a country of over abundance and excess calories in everything it's very difficult to achieve, but it is achievable. Will the majority bother.. No.

In my experience, people don't like to admit that they overeat and always over estimate the calories they are expending and underestimate the calories they are consuming. Any person I've seen religiously keep a food diary and weigh and measure what they are eating and drinking for a week or two under estimate by an average of 800-1000 calories a day, this is even allowing for the fact they tend to behave better knowing they are keeping a food diary.

I just don't buy the.. (slow metabolism, thyroid, genetics) means I can't lose weight and my actions and lifestyle choices have had no impact on my diagnoses as a diabetic.

Set up a controlled experiment and restrict someones calories in a hospital setting they will lose weight, staple a persons stomach they tend to lose weight. Genetics are always subject to environmental factors, you can be genetically predisposed to something e.g. diabetes and obesity/poor life style will trigger this. Just like it's probably not wise for a child of a schizophrenic parent to take vast amounts of mind altering drugs during their teens, the environment (e.g. personal choices, diet, lifestyle) is just as important as the genetic aspect here.

I don't mean to inflame or insult fellow diabetics Type 2 or or otherwise, but I struggle to argue against the public perception that if the majority (there are of course exceptions to this rule) took responsibility for their condition/lifestyle, lost weight, didn't overeat and educated themselves then we would see a much lower incidence of Type 2 in the general population and much lower costs to the NHS.

If people had such habits installed in them through socialisation from an early age and there was a real push for education in this are I think Type 2 diabetes diagnoses would reduce.

My main worry is the demonisation of diabetics in general, it will only take continued negative media coverage around the costs of diabetes and the wider public will be in support of lowering costs and it will lead to a reduction in quality of access to treatment for all diabetics. I truly believe in a few years economic arguments will be used to limit supplies and treatments and treatment quality will start going backwards, we are all ready on the way.

So yes I do get a big peeved when I go to clinic and see a morbidly obese Type 2 in a wheel chair, blaming their diabetes and it's impacts on everything but themselves, all the while with a 2ltr bottle of coke in their lap that they are taking large gulps from every few minutes whilst waiting.

Or my Type 2 colleage who brings five pieces of fruit to work a day, a double round of sandwiches, crisps and "diet" drink who then complains his sugar is never below 12mmol. His partner is a nurse!
 
buckley8219 said:
Yes it must be immensely frustrating as a Type 2, as sufferers are often painted as individuals inflicted it in on themselves.

But to play Devil's advocate...

I think the general populace just see the statistics and the headlines, the facts are that 85% of Type 2 diabetics are overweight and have BMI's over 25, which is a well established risk factor for Type 2s, as highlighted by the recent report Type 2 diabetics make up ~90% of all diabetic diagnoses and diabetes is costing the NHS billions every year.

Of course Joe public is going to be concerned and have an opinion on it and why shouldn't they?

When I look around it's rare to see an adult that isn't carrying excess weight, many don't understand food macros, don't calorie count and don't really have a clue what they are putting into their bodies. It only requires to overeat by a few hundred calories a day (a BLT sandwich or a large morning latte) consistently and you'll slowly gain weight year in year out.

Creating a calorific deficit is the keystone to fat and weightloss, it's boring and it takes real self discipline, in a country of over abundance and excess calories in everything it's very difficult to achieve, but it is achievable. Will the majority bother.. No.

In my experience, people don't like to admit that they overeat and always over estimate the calories they are expending and underestimate the calories they are consuming. Any person I've seen religiously keep a food diary and weigh and measure what they are eating and drinking for a week or two under estimate by an average of 800-1000 calories a day, this is even allowing for the fact they tend to behave better knowing they are keeping a food diary.

I just don't buy the.. (slow metabolism, thyroid, genetics) means I can't lose weight and my actions and lifestyle choices have had no impact on my diagnoses as a diabetic.

Set up a controlled experiment and restrict someones calories in a hospital setting they will lose weight, staple a persons stomach they tend to lose weight. Genetics are always subject to environmental factors, you can be genetically predisposed to something e.g. diabetes and obesity/poor life style will trigger this. Just like it's probably not wise for a child of a schizophrenic parent to take vast amounts of mind altering drugs during their teens, the environment (e.g. personal choices, diet, lifestyle) is just as important as the genetic aspect here.

I don't mean to inflame or insult fellow diabetics Type 2 or or otherwise, but I struggle to argue against the public perception that if the majority (there are of course exceptions to this rule) took responsibility for their condition/lifestyle, lost weight, didn't overeat and educated themselves then we would see a much lower incidence of Type 2 in the general population and much lower costs to the NHS.

If people had such habits installed in them through socialisation from an early age and there was a real push for education in this are I think Type 2 diabetes diagnoses would reduce.

My main worry is the demonisation of diabetics in general, it will only take continued negative media coverage around the costs of diabetes and the wider public will be in support of lowering costs and it will lead to a reduction in quality of access to treatment for all diabetics. I truly believe in a few years economic arguments will be used to limit supplies and treatments and treatment quality will start going backwards, we are all ready on the way.

So yes I do get a big peeved when I go to clinic and see a morbidly obese Type 2 in a wheel chair, blaming their diabetes and it's impacts on everything but themselves, all the while with a 2ltr bottle of coke in their lap that they are taking large gulps from every few minutes whilst waiting.

Or my Type 2 colleage who brings five pieces of fruit to work a day, a double round of sandwiches, crisps and "diet" drink who then complains his sugar is never below 12mmol. His partner is a nurse!
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In case you didn't read it in the post above, excess insulin causes obesity, not the other way around.
 
Yes and over eating causes the release of excess insulin does it not?

The link between diabetes and obesity is the feature of many a meta study.

The link between over eating and obesity is also.
 
With reality T.V focusing on the sick and obese (the 65 stone man was heart breaking to watch) Carl Thompson at 65 stone does not have Diabetes.

In many of these T.V programmes it isn't long before the medication box is produced with one reoccurring disease - Diabetes. It is all to easy for the visual appearance of an extremely overweight person to be linked / associated with the condition. The fact that diabetes can be the cause of a skinny person to become overweight does not factor into it, as it is all one sided.

I happened to have a meeting with an Anaesthetist at the hospital to discuss various aspects of my unconventional vitamin regime before my knee op. I arrived early and had a cup of tea, watching the shift change over the overweight nurses outnumbered the skinny ones. The Anaesthetist was also obese........... we are in the middle of an epidemic.

The sooner the main culprit is criminalised (The food industry) the better. I don't think there are enough Cognitive Behaviour Therapists to deal with the fallout of individuals that will need retraining on their eating habits. :sorry:
 
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Good lord.

I respect the work of Jenny Ruhl, but I don't respect the methodologies and findings of many of the links provided on that website it's easy to cherry pick research to support an argument you have a personal bias for.

I stand by my argument, excess insulin is often a result of the over-consumption of carbohydrates, over eating, snacking all day...

The evidence for this is much stronger than than the evidence of arsenic, pestitcides etc etc,
 
photognut said:
With reality T.V focusing on the sick and obese (the 65 stone man was heart breaking to watch) it isn't long before the medication box is produced with one reoccurring disease - Diabetes. It is all to easy for the visual appearance of an extremely overweight person to be linked / associated with the condition. The fact that diabetes can be the cause of a skinny person to become overweight does not factor into it, as it is all one sided.

I happened to have a meeting with an Anaesthetist at the hospital to discuss various aspects of my unconventional vitamin regime before my knee op. I arrived early and had a cup of tea, watching the shift change over the overweight nurses outnumbered the skinny ones. The Anaesthetist was also obese........... we are in the middle of an epidemic.

The sooner the main culprit is criminalised (The food industry) the better. I don't think there are enough Cognitive Behaviour Therapists to deal with the fallout of individuals that will need retraining on their eating habits. :sorry:
Click to expand...


Again personal responsibility, there are enough choices and options to eat in any way you choose. People are always looking to pass blame.

Just because we are surrounded by **** food, doesn't mean we have to eat it.
 
buckley8219 said:
Good lord.

I respect the work of Jenny Ruhl, but I don't respect the methodologies and findings of many of the links provided on that website it's easy to cherry pick research to support an argument you have a personal bias for.

I stand by my argument, excess insulin is often a result of the over-consumption of carbohydrates, over eating, snacking all day...

The evidence for this is much stronger than than the evidence of arsenic, pestitcides etc etc,
Click to expand...
That's fine, but perhaps a little less fat-bashing would be a good idea. Just a suggestion.
 
CatLadyNZ said:
That's fine, but perhaps a little less fat-bashing would be a good idea. Just a suggestion.
Click to expand...

I just feel it's an area that many, many people have direct control over, but choose to proportion blame elsewhere.

If as a society we don't push against serious issues like obesity, what does the future hold? Is it gong to be socially acceptable and the norm for everybody to be obese.
 
buckley8219 said:
I just feel it's an area that many, many people have direct control over, but choose to proportion blame elsewhere.

If as a society we don't push against serious issues like obesity, what does the future hold? Is it gong to be socially acceptable and the norm for everybody to be obese.
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It's also socially acceptable to blame the obese for their predicament with absolutely no knowledge of their personal medical situation. As a T1 have you ever heard people make ignorant comments about your condition?
 
buckley8219 said:
Again personal responsibility, there are enough choices and options to eat in any way you choose. People are always looking to pass blame.

Just because we are surrounded by **** food, doesn't mean we have to eat it.
Click to expand...

True, but consider all the processed convenient food, the labels that give the impression what you are eating is healthy. Low fat touted as good for you - when you look closer, the fat has been replaced with sugar. The addictive content of carbs and sugar turns food into an illusion of balanced, healthy diet, causing other serious problems.
 
buckley8219 said:
Yes it must be immensely frustrating as a Type 2, as sufferers are often painted as individuals inflicted it in on themselves.

But to play Devil's advocate...

I think the general populace just see the statistics and the headlines, the facts are that 85% of Type 2 diabetics are overweight and have BMI's over 25, which is a well established risk factor for Type 2s, as highlighted by the recent report Type 2 diabetics make up ~90% of all diabetic diagnoses and diabetes is costing the NHS billions every year.

Of course Joe public is going to be concerned and have an opinion on it and why shouldn't they?

When I look around it's rare to see an adult that isn't carrying excess weight, many don't understand food macros, don't calorie count and don't really have a clue what they are putting into their bodies. It only requires to overeat by a few hundred calories a day (a BLT sandwich or a large morning latte) consistently and you'll slowly gain weight year in year out.

Creating a calorific deficit is the keystone to fat and weightloss, it's boring and it takes real self discipline, in a country of over abundance and excess calories in everything it's very difficult to achieve, but it is achievable. Will the majority bother.. No.

In my experience, people don't like to admit that they overeat and always over estimate the calories they are expending and underestimate the calories they are consuming. Any person I've seen religiously keep a food diary and weigh and measure what they are eating and drinking for a week or two under estimate by an average of 800-1000 calories a day, this is even allowing for the fact they tend to behave better knowing they are keeping a food diary.

I just don't buy the.. (slow metabolism, thyroid, genetics) means I can't lose weight and my actions and lifestyle choices have had no impact on my diagnoses as a diabetic.

Set up a controlled experiment and restrict someones calories in a hospital setting they will lose weight, staple a persons stomach they tend to lose weight. Genetics are always subject to environmental factors, you can be genetically predisposed to something e.g. diabetes and obesity/poor life style will trigger this. Just like it's probably not wise for a child of a schizophrenic parent to take vast amounts of mind altering drugs during their teens, the environment (e.g. personal choices, diet, lifestyle) is just as important as the genetic aspect here.

I don't mean to inflame or insult fellow diabetics Type 2 or or otherwise, but I struggle to argue against the public perception that if the majority (there are of course exceptions to this rule) took responsibility for their condition/lifestyle, lost weight, didn't overeat and educated themselves then we would see a much lower incidence of Type 2 in the general population and much lower costs to the NHS.

If people had such habits installed in them through socialisation from an early age and there was a real push for education in this are I think Type 2 diabetes diagnoses would reduce.

My main worry is the demonisation of diabetics in general, it will only take continued negative media coverage around the costs of diabetes and the wider public will be in support of lowering costs and it will lead to a reduction in quality of access to treatment for all diabetics. I truly believe in a few years economic arguments will be used to limit supplies and treatments and treatment quality will start going backwards, we are all ready on the way.

So yes I do get a big peeved when I go to clinic and see a morbidly obese Type 2 in a wheel chair, blaming their diabetes and it's impacts on everything but themselves, all the while with a 2ltr bottle of coke in their lap that they are taking large gulps from every few minutes whilst waiting.

Or my Type 2 colleage who brings five pieces of fruit to work a day, a double round of sandwiches, crisps and "diet" drink who then complains his sugar is never below 12mmol. His partner is a nurse!
Click to expand...

It must feel very righteous to be you.
what about people who's only access to cook is a kettle? Or under sooo much stress or have mental health issues that just putting one foot in front of the other is not guaranteed? That guy you mentioned in a wheelchair could have started out like the abuse survivor who started over eating from a pre-teen to make themselves as offensive as they could so they would put their abuser off? (It didn't work by the way), trying to battle the food choices in such a person the NHS HAS not the tools nor the delicate handling to take that on. Or the diagnosed skinny schizophrenic who takes the anti psychotic drugs, whilst in 'hospital' and puts on over 3 stone in as many months? Who within a year is diagnosed as Type2? (My beloved Aunt by the way).
Or people who have the bariatric surgery and still weight goes back on?

In this day and age society's psychology around food is not one of just a fuel, so many other factors goes into food choices.

Like I said, it sounds like a luxury to have such a narrow dimensional view of your opinion.....

Oh and the original poster is a chef who low carbs, exercises 4+ times a week, holds down a physically demanding job, who also has the 'beeties, which he medicates. Do you not trust his self-care? Also think he is underestimating his calories in, whilst overestimating his calories out? See how your words might come across as #diabulling????
 
buckley8219 said:
. . . . . the facts are that 85% of Type 2 diabetics are overweight and have BMI's over 25, which is a well established risk factor for Type 2s, as highlighted by the recent report Type 2 diabetics make up ~90% of all diabetic diagnoses and diabetes is costing the NHS billions every year.
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There's a difference between being overweight and having a BMI over 25. Arnold Schwarzenegger has a BMI of 33 and I would not call him fat, not even if he was but especially because he isn't. Please could you quote your source, sounds like an interesting read. BTW, the Daily Mail doesn't count as a reputable source.
As you say type II diagnosis is about 90% and the cost of diabetes to the NHS is huge. Now go back to the cost and work out how much is spent on Insulin and nobody in their right mind would suggest it's their fault, I'm certainly not. Also look at the amount of money spent on drugs which are still in patent. I wonder what's wrong with the old staples, most of which were patented before 1990.

I nearly forgot, as there seems to be overweight people with no signs of type II diabetes and thin people with type II diabetes, although there might be an increased risk of type II for overweight people maybe epigenetics plays a part.

I found this on diabetes.org, hopefully they are a reputable source.
Being overweight is a risk factor for developing this disease, but other risk factors such as family history, ethnicity and age also play a role. Unfortunately, too many people disregard the other risk factors for diabetes and think that weight is the only risk factor for type 2 diabetes. Most overweight people never develop type 2 diabetes, and many people with type 2 diabetes are at a normal weight or only moderately overweight. - See more at: http://www.diabetes.org/diabetes-basics/myths/#sthash.A71bPrTs.dpuf
 
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At six foot three and fourteen stone I was never considered to be overweight.
I have never had a sweet tooth.
I've never been and still aren't into fizzy pop sweets chocolate cake etc.
I have always been very physically active.
Then I damage my spine and end up on Gabapentin.
Side effect might gain weight.
In a matter of weeks I ballooned to over 18 stone.
A year later I'm diagnosed T2
I can no longer exercise because of my spine and use a wheelchair a lot.
Despite all that I have gotten my weight down to fifteen stone through low carb high fat eating.
I accept at my age I will probably not make it back to fourteen stone where I was no matter what for twenty five years.
The poster on here declaring he's playing devils advocate is doing no such thing .... that was his get out clause to cover being offensive.
 
JTL said:
At six foot three and fourteen stone I was never considered to be overweight.
I have never had a sweet tooth.
I've never been and still aren't into fizzy pop sweets chocolate cake etc.
I have always been very physically active.
Then I damage my spine and end up on Gabapentin.
Side effect might gain weight.
In a matter of weeks I ballooned to over 18 stone.
A year later I'm diagnosed T2
I can no longer exercise because of my spine and use a wheelchair a lot.
Despite all that I have gotten my weight down to fifteen stone through low carb high fat eating.
I accept at my age I will probably not make it back to fourteen stone where I was no matter what for twenty five years.
The poster on here declaring he's playing devils advocate is doing no such thing .... that was his get out clause to cover being offensive.
Click to expand...


Arguably, the gain in weight could have also been the fact that you damaged your spine were no longer as physically active as before and as a result you had a daily calorie excess and gained weight.

If you've lost three of those four stone gained through changes in diet whilst still on medication then you've proved my point.

I don't think I'm being offensive and I am playing devil's advocate. These arguments form the basis for much popular opinion on Type 2 and will be the sort of thing we'll be hearing more and more of.
 
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