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Who’s to blame ?

MissMuffett said:
Loving reading all these posts, thank you @Spirit01 for starting the discussion.
As a child and teenager I was always the ideal weight. Then met my husband and married, started to cook our meals and that’s when I started putting weight on as I was in charge of my eating habits. I got fatter and husband remained at a 32“ waist all his life and at 6’4 we used to call him a stick insect :D . So are hormones and genes to blame?
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Genes play a part in nearly all medical disorders, so choose your parents wisely!
 
MissMuffett said:
Loving reading all these posts, thank you @Spirit01 for starting the discussion.
As a child and teenager I was always the ideal weight. Then met my husband and married, started to cook our meals and that’s when I started putting weight on as I was in charge of my eating habits. I got fatter and husband remained at a 32“ waist all his life and at 6’4 we used to call him a stick insect :D . So are hormones and genes to blame?
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Thank you so much for your lovely comments. I’m happy to state that some years ago I had a breakdown due to circumstances out of my control and this is another issue I have to live with. In my opinion once you have experienced a breakdown or suffer in any way with mental health you understand that you will have to live with this but you have to learn how to control it and be aware of triggers. I’m absolutely fine but then I always question everything and research everything. If I don’t know something I feel I need to then I’ll research it. I’m also aware of “triggers” and I think that’s where my original post came from. For me personally the doom & gloom of “this dreadful disease” can become all consuming and my way of dealing with it is to refer to it as my health issue in the same way that I deal with a fractured back, arthritis, mental health, DVT. For me it’s just a question of how I deal with it all and I consider myself a strong person who’s not prepared to be frightened by a terminology and to do that I change the terminology. Up yours diabetes, I’ll deal with you on my terms but get in line as there are other issues ahead of you. If anyone reading this considers me foolhardy then there’s nothing I can do about that. Maybe start your own post about how black & dark everything is but I won’t be following it. Just for the record my DN loves the way I deal with this and my appointments are always jolly now I’ve found one that’s on my journey with me rather than trying to dictate to me. As today is a very special day I’ll wish you all a very happy Halloween ❤️
 
In Response said:
Who's to blame for what?

Or more importantly (at least for me), is there any value in apportioning blame as it is looking backwards over things that we cannot change?
We are where we are so the question for me is "how am I going to manage it?"
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I totally agree with what you have said x
 
To get straight to your question, for some "blame" is a difficult question, with many different answers, and it's probably more than one of those answers in truth. For me, the answer is easy. I apportion 1% of the blame to my genetics. Men on both sides of my family have carried weight around their middle, some have died from conditions related to that, but I'm the first (known) diabetic on either side of my family.

99% of the blame goes to yours truly - me. I saw the consequences of unchecked weight gain in those relatives mentioned, so although the genetics are out of my control, I should have made better decisions and choices in life to avoid getting to 25st 11lbs at my peak weight. I should have eaten better. I should have exercised more. More than anything, I should have stopped making all the excuses in the book as to why I shouldn't/couldn't change things. This goes double for when I met my wonderful wife and applies a billion percent more having had two amazing sons in the last 10 years. I've let them down by letting myself down, I've caused them all so much worry and stress with this, and for that, I'll never, ever forgive myself.

Some might not like seeing how harsh I've been in self-reflection, however for me personally, it's important to own my mistakes and errors in judgement. It's how we learn and it's how I ensure I don't repeat those mistakes. I've made peace with those past mistakes and errors in judgement, but I can't forgive myself for them. I don't seek reassurance or consoling here with this, that lack of self-forgiveness drives and motivates me. I'm 3 months in now since diagnosis. I've lost a load of weight, I've got a low carb diet that I love, my BG readings are in normal range, I'm fitter and healthier every day, and I can do more than ever with my kids. Beyond that though, I'm happier than I've been in 20 years when it comes to how I feel in myself. It took a T2 diabetes diagnosis to achieve this, without it I don't think I'd have ever stopped with the ridiculous and pitiful excuses, but so far I'm on the right track. I have my second hba1c blood test next week, following my initial diagnosis one of 83. I'm hoping I'll see a significant improvement to match the complete overhaul of my life that's made me so much more content.

All that said, I aspire and hope to one day be able to have this wise an outlook on the matter of blame...

In Response said:
Who's to blame for what?

Or more importantly (at least for me), is there any value in apportioning blame as it is looking backwards over things that we cannot change?
We are where we are so the question for me is "how am I going to manage it?"
Click to expand...
 
Paul_ said:
To get straight to your question, for some "blame" is a difficult question, with many different answers, and it's probably more than one of those answers in truth. For me, the answer is easy. I apportion 1% of the blame to my genetics. Men on both sides of my family have carried weight around their middle, some have died from conditions related to that, but I'm the first (known) diabetic on either side of my family.

99% of the blame goes to yours truly - me. I saw the consequences of unchecked weight gain in those relatives mentioned, so although the genetics are out of my control, I should have made better decisions and choices in life to avoid getting to 25st 11lbs at my peak weight. I should have eaten better. I should have exercised more. More than anything, I should have stopped making all the excuses in the book as to why I shouldn't/couldn't change things. This goes double for when I met my wonderful wife and applies a billion percent more having had two amazing sons in the last 10 years. I've let them down by letting myself down, I've caused them all so much worry and stress with this, and for that, I'll never, ever forgive myself.

Some might not like seeing how harsh I've been in self-reflection, however for me personally, it's important to own my mistakes and errors in judgement. It's how we learn and it's how I ensure I don't repeat those mistakes. I've made peace with those past mistakes and errors in judgement, but I can't forgive myself for them. I don't seek reassurance or consoling here with this, that lack of self-forgiveness drives and motivates me. I'm 3 months in now since diagnosis. I've lost a load of weight, I've got a low carb diet that I love, my BG readings are in normal range, I'm fitter and healthier every day, and I can do more than ever with my kids. Beyond that though, I'm happier than I've been in 20 years when it comes to how I feel in myself. It took a T2 diabetes diagnosis to achieve this, without it I don't think I'd have ever stopped with the ridiculous and pitiful excuses, but so far I'm on the right track. I have my second hba1c blood test next week, following my initial diagnosis one of 83. I'm hoping I'll see a significant improvement to match the complete overhaul of my life that's made me so much more content.

All that said, I aspire and hope to one day be able to have this wise an outlook on the matter of blame...
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Thank you for sharing and releasing that
 
Well, here's a puzzle for you. Not at my most recent visit to hospital but the time before I was put on the "diabetic menu". For breakfast I wasn't allowed to have the scrambled eggs that I ordered, they gave me porridge and orange juice instead. I was not allowed to have the roast beef for lunch that I'd ordered (I can't remember but I think they gave me potato salad or something). For dinner I was not allowed to have the chicken curry that I ordered, they substituted it with pasta in some kind of white sauce, a bread roll with margarine (butter is bad!) and creme brule for dessert. I kicked up a huge stink and got put back onto the normal diet so I could order low carb meals but it was a struggle. Who's to blame? First there is not supposed to be a "diabetic diet" in Australia -- we're meant to follow the normal dietary guidelines that every other person is supposed to eat. The problem there (and I studied nutrition at Uni so have read the guidelines many, many times) is that they're *very* high in carbs. One meal (e.g. yucky pasta in white sauce) is more carbs than I'd normally in a day. Everything is high in carbs. There is no RDI per se, but they suggest 65% of total daily energy to come from carbs. So, I've never followed the guidelines because I simply don't like platefuls of pasta, mashed potato, rice for breakfast, etc etc etc. So who's to blame? I don't know but I think the national guidelines have a lot to answer for
 
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plantae said:
Well, here's a puzzle for you. Not at my most recent visit to hospital but the time before I was put on the "diabetic menu". For breakfast I wasn't allowed to have the scrambled eggs that I ordered, they gave me porridge and orange juice instead. I was not allowed to have the roast beef for lunch that I'd ordered (I can't remember but I think they gave me potato salad or something). For dinner I was not allowed to have the chicken curry that I ordered, they substituted it with pasta in some kind of white sauce, a bread roll with margarine (butter is bad!) and creme brule for dessert. I kicked up a huge stink and got put back onto the normal diet so I could order low carb meals but it was a struggle. Who's to blame? First there is not supposed to be a "diabetic diet" in Australia -- we're meant to follow the normal dietary guidelines that every other person is supposed to eat. The problem there (and I studied nutrition at Uni so have read the guidelines many, many times) is that they're *very* high in carbs. One meal (e.g. yucky pasta in white sauce) is more carbs than I'd normally in a day. Everything is high in carbs. There is no RDI per se, but they suggest 65% of total daily energy to come from carbs. So, I've never followed the guidelines because I simply don't like platefuls of pasta, mashed potato, rice for breakfast, etc etc etc. So who's to blame? I don't know but I think the national guidelines have a lot to answer for
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That is such a powerful reply and I’m sure many will learn from it. For me it’s like looking back years when we were fed this garbage about carbs and well done you for dealing with how you did. I’m fairly lucky as I don’t like pasta, rice, etc but could eat plenty of bread if I believed I could. I’m sure from my posts you will gather that I tend to treat guidelines as just that. I rarely have bread but when I do it’s treated as something special. A slice of thick bread toasted and then with plenty of Kerrygold butter spread over it is pure bliss.
 
Spirit01 said:
That is such a powerful reply and I’m sure many will learn from it. For me it’s like looking back years when we were fed this garbage about carbs and well done you for dealing with how you did. I’m fairly lucky as I don’t like pasta, rice, etc but could eat plenty of bread if I believed I could. I’m sure from my posts you will gather that I tend to treat guidelines as just that. I rarely have bread but when I do it’s treated as something special. A slice of thick bread toasted and then with plenty of Kerrygold butter spread over it is pure bliss.
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Despite my words on here I'm not really an assertive person. But the menu they tried to force on me was so ridiculously high in carbs that I managed to convince the Dr in charge of me to change it (I guess that study at Uni had some effect and enabled me to argue my point effectively). I don't know if the hospital has changed their policy or have a note on my file but at my most recent admission I was on "normal" diet/menu without having to ask/have an argument with the Dr. So, I got my eggs for breakfast etc and was allowed to have butter (what's going on there with their original insistence on NO BUTTER FOR YOU? I think the packet of butter is 5g, if that's going to kill me so be it). Because I'm on an insulin to carb ratio I could eat their silly diet (if they knew how many carbs were in their meals, which they didn't) but I don't like that kind of food. Yuck. Bread rolls with *butter* I do like though so I'll give them that. But quite honestly every single meal they tried to feed me had more carbs than I'd normally eat in a whole day (I try to stick to less than 100g a day). Recently I've started having sandwiches for lunch again, so two slices of bread a day because I like it. But I get a bit stroppy if someone tries to force me hehe.

To make sure my memory wasn't failing me I've just read the Australian Dietary Guidelines again. They do say that there is no specific diet for diabetics and that diabetics should follow the guidelines like everyone else. I made a mistake when I said they recommend 65% TDE to come from carbs. I was right that there is no specific RDI but it's not 65% -- it's between 45% and 65%. I'm not anti-carb but that seems like an awful lot. So who to blame is probably, in my country at least, the government and their dietary guidelines
 
plantae said:
Despite my words on here I'm not really an assertive person. But the menu they tried to force on me was so ridiculously high in carbs that I managed to convince the Dr in charge of me to change it (I guess that study at Uni had some effect and enabled me to argue my point effectively). I don't know if the hospital has changed their policy or have a note on my file but at my most recent admission I was on "normal" diet/menu without having to ask/have an argument with the Dr. So, I got my eggs for breakfast etc and was allowed to have butter (what's going on there with their original insistence on NO BUTTER FOR YOU? I think the packet of butter is 5g, if that's going to kill me so be it). Because I'm on an insulin to carb ratio I could eat their silly diet (if they knew how many carbs were in their meals, which they didn't) but I don't like that kind of food. Yuck. Bread rolls with *butter* I do like though so I'll give them that. But quite honestly every single meal they tried to feed me had more carbs than I'd normally eat in a whole day (I try to stick to less than 100g a day). Recently I've started having sandwiches for lunch again, so two slices of bread a day because I like it. But I get a bit stroppy if someone tries to force me hehe.

To make sure my memory wasn't failing me I've just read the Australian Dietary Guidelines again. They do say that there is no specific diet for diabetics and that diabetics should follow the guidelines like everyone else. I made a mistake when I said they recommend 65% TDE to come from carbs. I was right that there is no specific RDI but it's not 65% -- it's between 45% and 65%. I'm not anti-carb but that seems like an awful lot. So who to blame is probably, in my country at least, the government and their dietary guidelines
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Good for you and well done. I know this isn’t about diabetes but after my accident I was in so much pain which didn’t ease. They decided I had very bad bruising and needed to swim & as I played squash I should play some gentle games. I did as they said & honestly cried with pain but never gave up. After another month of no ease my Dr very “aggressively” told me that it was psychological and he was sending me for more X-rays to help me understand. These X-rays “picked something up” so I was sent for more X-rays at a different hospital. They found 3 crush fractures and ordered immediate rest for 3 months. There are other accounts too long to go into here but it’s things like this why I have zero confidence in the National Sick Service here in the U.K. I’ve learnt more about diabetes from this site & a book by the wonderful Dr Jason Fung. Thank you again for a great reply
 
Spirit01 said:
Good for you and well done. I know this isn’t about diabetes but after my accident I was in so much pain which didn’t ease. They decided I had very bad bruising and needed to swim & as I played squash I should play some gentle games. I did as they said & honestly cried with pain but never gave up. After another month of no ease my Dr very “aggressively” told me that it was psychological and he was sending me for more X-rays to help me understand. These X-rays “picked something up” so I was sent for more X-rays at a different hospital. They found 3 crush fractures and ordered immediate rest for 3 months. There are other accounts too long to go into here but it’s things like this why I have zero confidence in the National Sick Service here in the U.K. I’ve learnt more about diabetes from this site & a book by the wonderful Dr Jason Fung. Thank you again for a great reply
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I've never had them, but psychological crush fractures sound like the worst. In all seriousness I'm glad that you got the treatment you needed despite having to "fight" for it. Did they allow you 5g of butter? Seeing that I was in hospital for something much worse than diabetes I told the Dr that 5g of butter and eggs for breakfast were the least of my problems and the diet was probably actually hurting me (because I had no idea how to judge how much insulin to take). He laughed but in a good way and agreed. Gotta admit that he was an excellent Dr, but being someone who doesn't normally speak up it made things difficult. I still laugh at their "diabetic diet" which was just about all carbs
 
Oh, I just remembered another thing that seemed absurd. I was allowed to have jam on my breadroll but not marmalade before I made the Dr see how funny things were
 
plantae said:
So who to blame is probably, in my country at least, the government and their dietary guidelines
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My understanding is eating carbs does not cause diabetes.
If it did the majority of the population of Australia (and the UK) would have it and they don't.
 
In Response said:
My understanding is eating carbs does not cause diabetes.
If it did the majority of the population of Australia (and the UK) would have it and they don't.
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You're right of course. I got so caught up in the discussion and my experience in the hospital on how to manage diabetes (their view eat as many carbs as you can, apparently) that I lost sight of the the original question. I agree that carbs do not cause diabetes, my apologies
 
Can someone explain to me why health services (seemingly around the world, judging by this thread), still have an issue with eggs?

I was under the impression that the "eggs cause cholestoral and heart attacks" thing was debunked years ago now. Is it just that health services haven't caught up, or is it that I'm mistaken?
 
Paul_ said:
Can someone explain to me why health services (seemingly around the world, judging by this thread), still have an issue with eggs?

I was under the impression that the "eggs cause cholestoral and heart attacks" thing was debunked years ago now. Is it just that health services haven't caught up, or is it that I'm mistaken?
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Serous theory on this alert. “Salmonella?”

(The cutting out the potential of.? A sort of “no egg initiative.” To avoid getting sued for food poisoning.?)

There, I got that off my chest. I love eggs!
 
Paul_ said:
Can someone explain to me why health services (seemingly around the world, judging by this thread), still have an issue with eggs?

I was under the impression that the "eggs cause cholestoral and heart attacks" thing was debunked years ago now. Is it just that health services haven't caught up, or is it that I'm mistaken?
Click to expand...
In my case (and this is only a suspicion based on what a nurse told me, not the Dr who put me on a "normal" and not "diabetic" menu) is not because of the eggs per se. The nurse, who might have been wrong, told me that the diabetic menu was deliberately high in carbs because they were giving me insulin and were scared that without carbs I'd go hypo and sue them or some kind of nonsense. Myth? Maybe, I don't know. Anyway based on my most recent stay in hospital they've either changed their policy or have a note on my file that I don't have to eat 40 million grams of carbs a day
 
Jaylee said:
Serous theory on this alert. “Salmonella?”

(The cutting out the potential of.? A sort of “no egg initiative.” To avoid getting sued for food poisoning.?)

There, I got that off my chest. I love eggs!
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My DN is anti-egg still, told me to limit them. My doctor, when I then checked that advice, looked at me and very seriously asked "how many eggs are we talking?" My answer of 9-12 per week received the reply of "oh yes, that's fine, don't see any problem with that."

On pushing for why he asked how many, he apparently had a patient who ate a dozen per day that experienced some digestive system issues as a result! :)
 
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