Who Thinks Eating Protein makes Blood Glucose?

Dillinger

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I hope this isn't a dreaded low-carb argument; we're just talking about a metabolic effect which only occurs with limited blood glucose, so by it's nature it inevitably deals with a low(er) carbohydrate situation.

As a completely anecdotal bit of evidence, if people are worried, my recent estimated Globular Filtration Rate (the key indicator of kidney health) has improved (by over 10% in the last 3 months) since going back to a much tighter low carb diet this year in response to the words of wisdom on this forum.

Dillinger
 

kegstore

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That's good news Dillinger, and to add further balance my eGFR jumped from 40 in February to 52 in August, without any changes to my diet, so I'm frankly delighted as it takes me well away from the dreaded danger zone!
 

fergus

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I'm beginning to struggle with the reasoning here....
If we accept (and I do) Kegstore's point that normal kidney function is not compromised by eating large quantities of protein, then we can safely assume instead that diet induced damage to the kidneys is largely a result of elevated levels of insulin and blood glucose due to excessive carbohydrate intake. It would be odd if the kidneys were somehow spared the damage these factors cause to other organs after all.

Surely, in that case, a more appropriate course of action to protect the kidneys would be a reduction in carbohydrate, not protein? Purely anecdotally, my own kidney function has slowly improved during the years I have followed a low carb diet and I believe that is also true of others like Dillinger. The ultimate endpoint for long term type 1's like me often appears to be one involving significant kidney damage or even complete renal failure. Some of us who seem to be defying that trend aren't doing it by eating less protein, that's for sure.

Also, re. gluconeogenesis, we clearly have a metabolic process which provides the body with adequate glucose when it is absent from the diet. As it does this ad hoc, it comes without the risk of disturbing blood sugar and insulin levels to the extent that certain carbohydrates cause. Where is the unspecified hidden danger in replacing carbs with protein and fat here?

If there is a reckless strategy as regards kidney function, or other metabolic processes, surely it must be one that appears to overlook the clear dangers inherent in a carb based diet while dismissing the benefits of the alternatives?

Sorry if I've dragged the discussion down into the low-carb mire, but I've made my informed choice.

fergus
 

Handyníall

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I'm going to sound like uber-n00b here, but I thought I'd try and reason this out a little bit.

Your body metabolises glucose via glycogenesis. Then if it's low on glucose it'd surely look to an ample supply of glucose wouldn't it? Glucagon being secreted by alpha-cells to stimulate the release of glycogen from liver and muscle cells. Which can then be converted to glucose. Wouldn't the body do this before it resorts to burning the muscles?

Again, I'm using a little rationale, but I'm no expert so there may be flaws in my logic.
 

kegstore

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fergus re: kidneys, I think the crucial point is where you're starting from. If you have a healthy set of organs when you increase protein intake then that seems fine, which you've certainly proved. But if you have considerably less than healthy kidneys (most likely due to long term elevated blood glucose), then an increase in protein may not be such a great plan.

My apologies also to the OP for distracting the thread, but there WAS a tenuous link!
 

Jen&Khaleb

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I honestly expected that there would of been a hundred people posting to say that for 500gr of rump steak they would inject ??units?? of insulin. Obviously this is not the case and shouldn't be. Therefore, I think it is safe to say that the answer to my question in No, eating protein wont directly increase your blood sugar.

Yeah Romola. As a parent of a young child with diabetes I am fearful of the low carb, high protein diet that is trying to be pushed onto health professionals. Diet recommendations need to be suitable for all people. To deprive a child of carbs could be catastophic and when does someone decide that carbs are no longer needed in reasonable quantities (age 10, 15, 20???). Information could be passed on that could be seriously damaging both long and short term.

Children also need to be accepted by their peers and enjoy life, food and social activities. A child is a child, not a diabetic. I realise there are a lot of adults on this forum but the parents and children have a different balancing act to manage. We are not out to make our kids life a misery by pricking their fingers, injecting them and then deciding on exactly what and when they eat only to find out that you still get some crazy figures and still end up treating hypos. I think I'd go mad. A kit-kat is not a horror.

I really did direct this question to diabetics using insulin as it would not be relevant otherwise.

Jen
 

fergus

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Jen, the consensus is clearly that protein does create blood glucose.
I'm type 1 and insulin user. I woke up with a bg of 4.6mmol/l this morning, I injected 3 units of Humalog before my breakfast of 2 eggs scrambled with cream and cheese, 2 rashers of bacon and 4 chestnut mushrooms. Effectively a zero carb breakfast and experience tells me my bg will be between 4.5 and 5 when I next test before lunch.

I have children myself and I know how they are drawn to carbohydrate foods, for all sorts of reasons. Having said that, if an adult like me can do well on a breakfast without carbs, there's no reason a child couldn't do it either if they chose to. It certainly wouldn't be
catastrophic
in any sense!

I don't understand why anyone would be fearful of it, it's not as if anyone or any Health Professional I know has ever been forced to adopt a low carb diet. If anything, the opposite is probably true. The important thing, in my view, is that more people become aware of the options and can freely make their own, informed choices with out fear or suspicion.

All the best,

fergus
 

cugila

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Jen&Khaleb said:
After a topic in a different post I would like to ask people if they think eating Protein makes Blood Glucose directly. The only way I found for this to happen was for protein to go to the muscles and tissues and then the body using glycogenesis from those tissues to covert to glycogen to be stored in the liver. It seemed quite a complex process and something the body did to supply the brain with energy in the absence of glucose from carbohydrate.

What are your thoughts or research?

Jen


Erm....... :?
This was your original question ? Seems like you have moved the goalposts somewhat ? :roll:
As for your conclusion - well, the earth is round by the way ? :?

We all gave our answers on the basis of that question you posted - It is a complex human metabolic process which has been explained fully. Using the correct biology and much technical information which is available to all if they care to look. Scientist or not.

"Diet needs to be suitable for all people"......very true. That means in practice that there is no one size fits all as the HCP's advice is at present. Diet is very individual and is different for everybody.
Actually, I prefer to use the term 'lifestyle' rather than diet, because that is what it is. Something for life - something which gives us all life, vitality, health and wellbeing.

I am not a low carber, I use a low GI/GL diet but have seen massive benefits to my health and treatment because I reduced the carbohydrates. I also eat a certain amount of protein, some fats, very little sugars and generally a healthy diet. Not short of vitamins, minerals, nutrients at all.

Nobody is advocating that we should all eat just proteins and low carb. They are just asking the HCP's etc to realise that there is another way which can be of benefit. That's all I want. Stop telling people to eat plenty of carbs all the time, the very stuff that is converted to glucose and ultimately is just what a Diabetic of any kind doesn't need.

Why are you frightened of what other people eat ? If you don't want to go down that road, then just do it your way. Nobody is forcing anybody to do something they don't want. Questioning how the human body works and then if it doesn't fit your thinking seems very strange to me. We are talking about the human metabolism, which is basically the same for all, child or adult.

I wish I had known all of that years ago. Then I probably wouldn't be posting 'stuff' on here trying to stop others from making the same mistakes I did. The mistakes that saw my Diabetes getting progressively worse. Now they are in reverse because of the things I did to my diet.

As for your comment about children being children, of course they are. The adults on this forum, myself included are all mostly parents themselves and know about bringing up kids. Not all know about Diabetic kids, but we do know about Diabetes and the workings of the Human Metabolism.

Unfortunately when your children also have Diabetes you can't just ignore the things that help them control the Diabetes. I am sure you want your children to have a better and an active life and not get the complications that uncontrolled Diabetes brings, therefore surely it is sensible to help them control it by whatever means possible, now ! Some finger pricks, injections and diet changes are nothing compared to the misery of an amputation in later life because they weren't encouraged to control the Diabetes when younger ?

It's a fine line we tread with our kids, protect too much and we can get it all wrong, let them off the 'leash' and fail to protect them and it can be disastrous as well. We are all guilty at times of being 'over protective' as well ?

I had a friend who's son was diagnosed as T1 some 40 years ago. He is a healthy strapping individual now because he always controlled his Diabetes. Following the example given to him by his parents. They didn't enjoy sticking needles into him and had to endure the tears, the pain, the frustration when he rebelled and refused to co-operate. Then they endured the tears and the frustration because he had hypo's, was hyperglycaemic as well. He soon learned that control is a way of life for a Diabetic, a child with Diabetes. Those two extremes are there if Diabetes is not well controlled, for whatever reason ? There is much you can do to help your children through things, that's what ALL parents do.

He has modified his control over the years as new and more effective treatments and techniques became available. His parents didn't shy away from the tough decisions about treatment or testing. They were enlightened people and brave. So was that young man, he fought all the battles that Diabetes brought him without fear and with stoicism. Kids are tough cookies. Yes, they need protecting, but not at the expense of their health. He not long ago started to reduce all carbohydrate consumption and has reduced his Insulin doseage considerably as a result. He will never be able to stop it but at least he is now 'healthier and fitter' (his words) since he changed his regime. He also has stated that he wished he had known as a child about the effect that carbohydrates had on his metabolism years ago. He would have done something about it then. Doesn't blame his parents, knows they were just following the then current thinking at that time.

Oh, yes Kit-Kat is definitely not a horror, I have one sometimes and still enjoy them. I don't think that they were ever part of a 'healthy' diet though ? Just the occasional treat.

As for how YOU interpret things, well Jen............. :mrgreen:
 

fergus

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An excellent post, Ken.
Apart from the bit about the Kit-Kat obviously. :wink:

fergus
 

cugila

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Oh.....come on guys. :( 2 fingers of a Kit-Kat is only 13g carbs, I can manage that as a snack once in a while. So forgive me if my response also contains two fingers........V :lol:
 

wallycorker

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cugila said:
Oh.....come on guys. :( 2 fingers of a Kit-Kat is only 13g carbs, I can manage that as a snack once in a while. So forgive me if my response also contains two fingers........V :lol:
Yes - I suppose you can Ken.

....and I suppose five a day could be considered balanced if spread out at three hour intervals? :roll:
 

cugila

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Great thinking John......very selective.

Reminds me of someone else not too far from here.... :twisted: :lol:
 

fergus

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So..... half a Kit-Kat would not only be twice as good, it would also be an appropriate single fingered response Ken? :lol:

All the best,

fergus
 

cugila

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Touche'.......... :lol:
 

wallycorker

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Talking of chocolate reminded me of something I overheard from a lady sat behind me at last night's Diabetes UK Support Group meeting. The same lady had been complaining at an earlier meeting of painful neuropathy in her legs. She said to someone sat beside her - "I've been told that it is OK to have a piece of chocolate each day but nobody ever told me how big the piece should be!".
 

timo2

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