Cheers folks, Sorry to have hijacked the thread.
I'll repost on my own thread with updates later
Cheers,
Jim
I'll repost on my own thread with updates later
Cheers,
Jim
Work discrimination
- Thread starter Jamesrl
- Start Date
Its all the rubbish and ignorance when actually working and constantly having to explain everything over and over again which is a real downer. The disability discriminations act was a good idea covering type 1 diabetes but actually putting these laws into effect is another matter. I prefere to offer people a right good kicking. It usually does the trick.
I am not altogether keen on my job at the moment but fear moving to a new job because of all the hard work I have put into getting my employer and my colleagues to understand the condition.
Proving that someone has discriminated against you is very very difficult unless its been written down or a video or audio recording has been made when discrimitory remarks have been made.
Public sector work is proberbly the best bet for equality.
I am not altogether keen on my job at the moment but fear moving to a new job because of all the hard work I have put into getting my employer and my colleagues to understand the condition.
Proving that someone has discriminated against you is very very difficult unless its been written down or a video or audio recording has been made when discrimitory remarks have been made.
Public sector work is proberbly the best bet for equality.
MJLees said:New to the forums, but thought I'd drop a word of the situation I am in at present, as both example and motivation for some ...
I have been Type 1 for the last 13 years and 'control' has never been what a professional would classify as 'good'. At worst an Hba1C of 13+ ... today I am glad to say it is much better, but over 13 years I have had so many different 'opinions' and 'advice' I have barely found it easy to find a 'balance' of control.
Three years ago I applied to my local Police Service at the role of a PCSO - a role as physically active, involving a LOT more walking than that of a PC. I was accepted - with an Hba1C of 9.6 at the time. However, it wasn't without gritted teeth. I was offered the job and the offer then retracted a WEEK before starting due to the Hba1C. At the time, I was cycling many miles a week, running, playing squash three times a week, etc. They had no grounds to tell me I wasn't 'fit' for the job. I dug my feet in with the FMA (Force Medical Advisor) and demanded he 'prove' I was unfit. I had sailed though the medicals and physical tests the force presents.
I was permitted to start and advised he would want to see me every three months for 'check-ups'.
Two check-ups into the job and no more were required.
Two years into the job, I have had NO days off sick and NO issues at all on of off duty relating to diabetes. I walk more than most on my team and put in more effort and hours than required almost all the time. He has therefore had NO grounds to follow up on my condition.
Currently my Hba1c is at 8.6 and still falling having recently started on a new regime with another hospital.
The current situation, specifically relevant to my job - in February I applied to work as a PC. Occy Health was facing a choice - they either said 'Yes, you've proven you can do it without any issues, you can start' ... or they said 'You're not fit to do it' - but if they did that ... they were effectively saying I wasn't fit to do the job I was in ...
The inevitable occurred ... I was immediately suspended from Driving at work AND cycling (even though I was cycling up to 8 hours a day on duty without issue and had re-introduced the 'bicycle' to the local team and region who were now all starting to use them!
Three months have passed ... I have presented them with letters and blood results from my local GP who is supportive of my situation and disagreeing with their decisions ...
I can therefore empathise with ANYONE who has reached what feels like closed doors and brick walls on the job front. My advice from experience is to fight decisions (even though you shouldn't have to and to prove yourself no 'different' once in the role)
I have never on an application form until recently even considered putting diabetes as a 'disability', but now feel that it is the employers who chose to make this a disability and not the individual.
I urge individuals to keep fighting for the jobs THEY WANT because at no time will large organisations back down and accept that their opinions are wrong until someone PROVES them wrong.
For those interested in the Police Service their is the NPDA (National Police Diabetics Association) who were founded to support such situations and offer advice.
Speaking from experience there is NO reason that a controlled diabetic (ie, anyone similar or better controlled than myself - I still have very clear hypo symptoms and am on Novorapid/Levemir for variable meal times) cannot work in the Police Service.
My next goal ... when I get in as a PC ... will be to target the 'Driving' issue of the Police Service as currently nationwide, with only a few exceptions, no diabetic is allowed to 'Response Drive'.
I hope someone gets something from my jabberings ... it's my first, so I apologise for the length of the message.
)
I have been a PC for over 7 years, and a diabetic for 4.
Initially diagnosed as T2, and given oral meds (Gliclazide & metformin), then over time Pioglitazone with all meds increaing every couple of months.
In June 2007 my health care professionals decided they had got it wrong first time around and moved me onto insulin (Novorapid & Lantus/Glargine)
I am still and never have had taken from me my "response" ticket to drive. I currently work on a neighbourhood Policing team where i predominantly walk, but I have applied to return to response Policing and will go back to 24/7 response Policing in a couple of months.
I actually have more trouble with DVLA than I do with my force. My force (and my force FME) have absoloutely no problem with me applying to become a Police Class 1 driver - Advanced driver, driving the advanced BMW cars. Indeed I actually drove one the other day on a suitability drive to see if I'm capable of completing the course.
This means that I could be an advanced driver in a pursuit situation. BUT, when I asked DVLA to give me my D1 category back (so I can drive minibuses etc) they said NO, I'm too "dangerous" 'cos if I crash I'd be responsible for the deaths of those in the minibus etc.
Absolutely amazing, at the minute I might do 3 or 4 "blue light runs" per day, but if you or I and the rest of the forum decided to go to the seaside for the day in a minibus, I'm not allowed to drive - just incase I crash!!!!!!!!.
My force allow to drive because I've had an IMA with the force Occ Health Doctor, but the DVLA (not very)help line operator I spoke to just kept saying "YOU'D HAVE TO TAKE THE SECRETARY OF STATE TO COURT AND NO ONE HAS EVER DONE THAT AND WON!"
A female colleague has just returned to work post maternity leave. As a result of childbirth she is now an insulin injecting diabetic, she has been allowed to retain her ADVANCED driver status, she just can't do firearms any more.
The reason why some Police forces may act they way they do is because the issue hasn't arisen within their force yet, and they probably don't know what to do. Diabetes should NOT prevent anyone from applying to join the Police, however, what is relevant is that an individual should already have good control of their BG's.
This is important as upon joining EVERYONE MUST do their 2 year probationary period on a 24/7 response team. You can't join and immediately ask not to do nightshifts because you're diabetic. The good control is needed because you're a shift worker, the job is/can be very stressful etc.
Reasonable adjustments are made to accomodate diabetics, but you have a Professional Development Portfolio where you record and evidence your ability to hold the office of Constable, needed by the Chief Constable to confirm your appointment at the end of your probabtionary period. I've you've not done nights etc, how can you prove your ability to deal with Public Order situations (you and a colleague or two outside the nightclub when two local pub football teams decide to kick the seven shades out of each other), or what about the 3 am domestic where after speaking to your victim it's agreed that they and the kids are moving out there and then and going to the refuge.
It's during the nightshift that you spend about 5 hours in A&E with a victim and forensic doctor and a CSI obtaining samples.
The above things although they do happen during the day (it's rare though), are basic bread and butter Police functions that you have to learn. If a diabetic joined and didn't do nights then at the end of their probationary period they wouldn't know half the stuff they're meant to.
I know this post rambles on a bit, but the point I'm trying to allude to is that diabetics can join the Police, albeit with a few restrictions on some of the specialist roles within the job. BUT, forces must know that the shift work coupled with the stresses of the job don't adversely affect the health of the employee, hence why they want to see good control before joining.
When I joined in Novenber 2001, I was surprised to hear that the average life expectancy of a Police officer after retirement was 7 years - retirement age is 55!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I don't have the exact figures but a significant number of Police officers die younger than the national average. Studies have revealed that years of shiftwork, stress, eating on the go when you can etc takes its toll.
I was recently diagnosed diabetic after a trip to the AE dept, been very open and honest about it I told my employer that I was possible diabetic and I did have a few problems with vision and lack of energy. As I am on a trial period of three months I thought it's better to explain the possible cause of why I was not fully performing and when my treatment is fully diagnosed I should be back to normal.
As I was 3 days from my end of trial period and expected no problems in been made permanent I was really shocked to be told regardless of the cause that my work was not up to to the level required by the boss and that I had to with four weeks work much faster and produce perfect work or have my employment ceased.
Each time I have to see the doctor or as at present see the diabetic nurse (only 2nd appointment) is greeted with a frown from employer. I fully expect to have my employment ceased next month as they could be thinking " this employee will have lots of sick leave" as there is only 2 employees and would cost money if agency staff had to be used to cover any possible sick leave.
Because of this and of cause recently diagnosed diabetic, if my employment is ceased would loose my home (tied accommodation) I am getting more and more depressed about it.
I suppose I should be on the sick but am trying to prove I am not a person going sick all the time.
As I was 3 days from my end of trial period and expected no problems in been made permanent I was really shocked to be told regardless of the cause that my work was not up to to the level required by the boss and that I had to with four weeks work much faster and produce perfect work or have my employment ceased.
Each time I have to see the doctor or as at present see the diabetic nurse (only 2nd appointment) is greeted with a frown from employer. I fully expect to have my employment ceased next month as they could be thinking " this employee will have lots of sick leave" as there is only 2 employees and would cost money if agency staff had to be used to cover any possible sick leave.
Because of this and of cause recently diagnosed diabetic, if my employment is ceased would loose my home (tied accommodation) I am getting more and more depressed about it.
I suppose I should be on the sick but am trying to prove I am not a person going sick all the time.
Hi my first post,I'm type 2 have been 10 years now take metformin and insulin been having problems with my feet last 4 years and was made redundant 2 years ago due to so much time taken going for treatment difficult to prove this was the case though and got a job right away so didn't mind but my new employer is making redundancies and I have had a lot of time off all due to my foot problem recently spent 2 weeks in hospital I believe I will be one of the unlucky ones yet again,little chance of getting another job with present "credit crunch" situation
Yes very strange emploers!!Often they do not know as well how you feel!!
I wonder---can person who cares for husband--who still works,but need help,support when at home,because he has osteoartrhrytis can apply for flexiblle working or its only for women with young children,disablead adults--who do not work???
Is there any law,regulations on that matter?thanks for any help.
I wonder---can person who cares for husband--who still works,but need help,support when at home,because he has osteoartrhrytis can apply for flexiblle working or its only for women with young children,disablead adults--who do not work???
Is there any law,regulations on that matter?thanks for any help.
hi all,
having read these threads, when some1 says military or armed forces every1 thinks army or soldier.
well to buck the trend, i was serving in the Royal Navy for 6 years when i was diagnosed type 1 in 1997.
i must make it known that within that 6 years, i had been on shore establiments twice for 6 months each time as afloat support. What i am saying is that there is billets on shore based areas of the royal navy. after being diagnosed and spending a week, i was sent home on sick leave (6 weeks) then reporting back to the naval hospital before being released back to my ship.
as soon as i was back onboard i had to see the ships doc and was told that i had to get my stuff and do a ship leaving that day, a routine that normally takes a week or so to do. the last place to go on board was the regulating office then shoreside.
once on shoreside establishment, i was sent on another 2 weeks leave i when i returned meet with my chief petty officer and he told me that my case would go before the next naval medical board which would be in 11 weeks and would be no doubt that i would be discharged.
at the time the navy had all the different branches with billets not filled, my branch, marine engineering mechanic (MEM) was 7 billets down per ship.
i tried to argue that i wouldn't mind being shore side permanently, since there are chief petty offices who are shoreside permanantly due to injurys or disablements, but they said it was in my contract to goto sea but couldnt. so the navy was breaking the contract and not me, i did get paid off, £9.5k in all and a monthly pension for the rest of my life, but given the choice i would still be in.
well thats my story, hope ive not bored you to much.
Ste
having read these threads, when some1 says military or armed forces every1 thinks army or soldier.
well to buck the trend, i was serving in the Royal Navy for 6 years when i was diagnosed type 1 in 1997.
i must make it known that within that 6 years, i had been on shore establiments twice for 6 months each time as afloat support. What i am saying is that there is billets on shore based areas of the royal navy. after being diagnosed and spending a week, i was sent home on sick leave (6 weeks) then reporting back to the naval hospital before being released back to my ship.
as soon as i was back onboard i had to see the ships doc and was told that i had to get my stuff and do a ship leaving that day, a routine that normally takes a week or so to do. the last place to go on board was the regulating office then shoreside.
once on shoreside establishment, i was sent on another 2 weeks leave i when i returned meet with my chief petty officer and he told me that my case would go before the next naval medical board which would be in 11 weeks and would be no doubt that i would be discharged.
at the time the navy had all the different branches with billets not filled, my branch, marine engineering mechanic (MEM) was 7 billets down per ship.
i tried to argue that i wouldn't mind being shore side permanently, since there are chief petty offices who are shoreside permanantly due to injurys or disablements, but they said it was in my contract to goto sea but couldnt. so the navy was breaking the contract and not me, i did get paid off, £9.5k in all and a monthly pension for the rest of my life, but given the choice i would still be in.
well thats my story, hope ive not bored you to much.
Ste
MARIJA said:
Hi Maria.
Yes, there are laws and regulations governing the things you asked about. They are very complex.
There may be someone here who has had the same experiences and can guide you. You need to be sure that what is said is correct.
You should in the first instance contact your local CAB with all the relevant information and you will get much better advice - they also can help you with any paperwork that may be needed. If any further advice is needed you will be passed to experts. This is at no cost to you.
If I want advice on Diabetes, I come here. If I want advice on legal matters - I go to the experts !!
Ken
Hi
I have acres of experience of Type 1 and disability discrimination. Don't forget that many Type 1s also are more likely to be depressed /have under active thyriod...also potentially disabilities.
There are some awful stories of employer ignorance. The police and fire servive were the first to look into discrimination. Maybe check google and read docs re research and then mention anotherforce/service in another authrority noted in the report to raise awareness?
Cuglia - check the judgment on Coleman v Attridge Law on google. It may help you?
I have acres of experience of Type 1 and disability discrimination. Don't forget that many Type 1s also are more likely to be depressed /have under active thyriod...also potentially disabilities.
There are some awful stories of employer ignorance. The police and fire servive were the first to look into discrimination. Maybe check google and read docs re research and then mention anotherforce/service in another authrority noted in the report to raise awareness?
Cuglia - check the judgment on Coleman v Attridge Law on google. It may help you?
Hi ianh.
I don't know if you noticed but the information that you are quoting is from a post
dated March 9th 2008.
At that time the information that Senior Moderator Sugarless Sue posted was factual and correct.
Since that time the regulations have changed in several areas, as you rightly say - track side workers are dealt with on a case by case basis.
It is good to know that more relaxed rules are now in force in certain areas.
Ken.
I don't know if you noticed but the information that you are quoting is from a post
dated March 9th 2008.
At that time the information that Senior Moderator Sugarless Sue posted was factual and correct.
Since that time the regulations have changed in several areas, as you rightly say - track side workers are dealt with on a case by case basis.
It is good to know that more relaxed rules are now in force in certain areas.
Ken.
It's not as simple as that, if your employer makes it difficult for you to do your job and continually harasses you for being genuinely sick
Or any other reason, Hoping you will quit the job, That is considered to be "Constructive dismissal " if you walk out.
a lot of people are made to feel they should leave the job, employers don't realise this is harassment
