SunnyExpat
Well-Known Member
LCHF - low carb high fat
HCLF - high carb low fat
not entirely sure why the Xpert course would still be plugging that option, bearing in mind the owners views.
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X-pert course updated to include LCHF
- Thread starter dbr10
- Start Date
LCHF - low carb high fat
HCLF - high carb low fat
not entirely sure why the Xpert course would still be plugging that option, bearing in mind the owners views.
donnellysdogs
Master
I loved the meditereanean eating. Can't do it anymore but going to see if I can blitz the foods together instead as the results were the best ever for my cholesterol in 20 years!!
SunnyExpat
Well-Known Member
That's still my preferred option, and seems to work for me as well.
Bobby59
Active Member
I will not lower my self to having a fight with you, so I will allow your comments to pass and I will try to talk to you like a grown up. So NoCrbs4Me, as a fully recovered type two diabetic, what do you think was or is your trigger weight?
I was fully diagnosed as being Type Two Diabetic, August 2nd 2014 and I was around 18 stone at the time. During November 2014 I took up cycling and I have rode many many miles completing three long distance charity cycle rides during the summer of 2015. Not long after I started cycling my weigh reduced to around 17s 8lb on no diet, in fact my carbs intake went up during this time to compensate for the extra efforts during long distance cycling. Since then I have been lucky and I have reduced my weight further to around 16s 8lb, mostly between January 2016 and present day (sadly through illness not diet). Recently my wife and I have take up some carbs dodging. At the moment my weight remains around the 16 st 8 lb mark. I have noticed a huge change in my blood sugar levels they have dropped off like they have fallen off a cliff. I am fairly confident should I continue to further reduce my weight, my blood sugar could drop even further, and this is with out any drastic diets. I am not suggesting any one gets desperately ill to achieve this weight loss, I am trying to point out my weight loss has come about as a result of hard work and more recently a fluke. This weight loss has alone had a big effect on my blood sugar levels with out a drastic diet being involved..Because of recent illness I have had to reduce my cycling but I hope to fully return to it shortly. I have two cycling charity events lined up for summer 2016.
The News paper article suggests you can go back to normal eating after you go below your personal trigger weight. Naturally any one would advise smaller portions and keeping an eye on the carbs intake less bread and fewer pizza's. But none the less you could again enjoy the meany food options available to you with out going as over board as you did in the past. Combine this with regular exercise such as cycling or jogging a few miles three times a week and you are good to go.
Very often I read about people who have used the HFLC diet and achieved fantastic results. But very rarely is there any mention of exercise included as being a part of the end result. I would go so far as to say gluttony and lazyness is what caused the problem in the first place. I openly used carb loading sports drinks during my first year of being diabetic as an aid to achieving my cycling goals and simply burnt them off when cycling. I know now this was a wrong approach but I still lost weight all be it slowly.
For me I see the HFLC diet as a means to an end rather than a total life style change. Shift the weight and you remove the diabetes problem I feel it really is that simple.
I have a fun question for you. If you take the flat bread out of a small dona kebab what is left has to be good for you on the HFLC diet. As what is left is just meat, fat and some salad. Am I right or wrong?
SunnyExpat
Well-Known Member
What criteria was used to confirm the 'reversal', as there are a few interesting threads ongoing on this.
Particularly your initial insulin response, did you do a GTT to confirm it's back to normal, or did you just respond well to a set amount of carbs, before you decided to go down the zero carbs diet after the LCHF cure?
Bluetit1802
Legend
It isn't just a question of shifting the weight. It is more a question of shifting the fat deposits round the liver and pancreas. Thin people can still have these fat deposits, which are not noticeable from the outside, they are normally detected by scans. Fat people may or may not have these fat deposits.
On a personal level, I shifted all my excess weight, over a third of my starting weight, dropping my BMI from 31 to 21. I have remained at 21 for the past 18 months or so. My diabetes has not disappeared. I return normal BS levels as long as I stick to my low carb diet (under 30g a day) If I exceed this, which I do some days because I'm human, my levels go up accordingly. If I continued to exceed 30g. I would be back where I started in no time. Yes, I could do strenuous exercise to burn off those extra carbs, but that is not a sustainable option for me (and for most other people). Low carb, however, is sustainable providing I consume sufficient fat and protein.
SunnyExpat
Well-Known Member
You lost weight, over a long period, by LCHF?
Did you have a liver sc an afterwards?
Bluetit1802
Legend
I lost weight over about 9 months on low carb-increased fat, and have maintained my new figure over almost 18 months by increasing my fat consumption to avoid losing even more weight. No, I haven't had any scans. Why do you ask?
SunnyExpat
Well-Known Member
There have been a few threads recently, discussing low calorie intensive diets, and the reults of them, compared to slower diets. I did a food version, but low calorie, low fat.
I have seen considerable improvements with regards to my type 2.
I could probably lose a bit more weight now though, and I've been looking at shake type diets, with the feeling they may be more beneficial overall.
I was wondering if you had had a scan, to see if you had any residual fat around your liver, as it would be interesting to see if any correlations to diet was happening. I haven't either, but I suspect I must have a fairly clear liver now though.
Bobby59
Active Member
Exercise and diet have to work in combination to heal the body, this just seem to me to be common sense for a good final out come.
The exercise need not be to strenuous just done regularly say three times a week. I think a 10 mile cycle ride on a flat route, trying to keep the time under 1 hour means your average speed will be around 10 mph. That is by no means a blistering pace. If you wish it you can try to improve on your times over this distance and improve your over all fitness. But it is not just getting on the bike there may be a short car ride involved where you have to mount the bike onto your car to take it to the ride start. All of this may seem small but it is none the less exercise. There are phone apps you can use to record your ride data I use Sports Tracker there are many others available such as Strava or MapMyRide. Here is an example of one of my ride data read outs.
As you can see there are no huge hills involved and my over all ride speed is not very fast. May I ask which form of exercise you do?
Last edited by a moderator:
Bluetit1802
Legend
Bobby59
Active Member
@Bobby59 I walk the dogs twice daily and keep our larger than average house sparkling clean and tidy. (I exaggerate here with the word sparkling). Thanks for your suggestion, but I haven't ridden a bike in over 50 years and don't intend to start now.
It's all good we do what we can. You can come and clean my house if you like.
NoCrbs4Me
Well-Known Member
I did not do an official GTT. My criteria for affirming that I got rid of my insulin resistance was based on blood glucose levels (HBA1c, fasting, and after a high carb meal), triglycerides/HDL ratio, and ALT. My diabetes had been reversed before I switched from LCHF to zero carb.
The following paper is about TG/HDL ratio as a surrogate for insulin resistance
("TG/HDL ratio as surrogate marker for insulin resistance"):
https://www.escardio.org/Guidelines...io-as-surrogate-marker-for-insulin-resistance
Right now, my ratio is 1.0, but it has been as high as 3.9. (Note units are mg/dL, not mmol/L). Greater than 2.5 indicates insulin resistance. It's also a predictor of heart disease, with the ratio ideally being under 2 if you don't want heart disease.
High ALT is a sign of non-alcoholic fatty liver disease, which is related to insulin resistance. Mine was 62 at diagnosis (above 60 is bad), but is now 29.
SunnyExpat
Well-Known Member
Just to be clear, as 'reversed' can be controversial to some.
You had a normal response after testing with one high carb meal?
Otherwise it's reversed to your own criteria of measurement of blood tests, on LCHF, or now nocarbHF, as many on here may achieve, until they eat carbs again.
Bluetit1802
Legend
@NoCrbs4Me
I've seen that paper before, and others on the same subject. It would seem I have never had signs of insulin resistance or a fatty liver from what I have read. My ALT has never been higher than 33, currently 24. My TG/HDL ratio has never been higher than 0.8, currently 0.25. Yet I was just in the obese category on diagnosis with a spare tyre round my middle, now the lower end of normal weight. I wonder why I became Type 2 and why my diabetes hasn't gone in remission? No genetic history, no other associated diseases, nothing else at all that I know of. Strange.
I've seen that paper before, and others on the same subject. It would seem I have never had signs of insulin resistance or a fatty liver from what I have read. My ALT has never been higher than 33, currently 24. My TG/HDL ratio has never been higher than 0.8, currently 0.25. Yet I was just in the obese category on diagnosis with a spare tyre round my middle, now the lower end of normal weight. I wonder why I became Type 2 and why my diabetes hasn't gone in remission? No genetic history, no other associated diseases, nothing else at all that I know of. Strange.
Totto
Well-Known Member
If a thread ever got off topic it's this one. It's absolutely GREAT X-pert now includes LCHF as a choice.
And if fat diabetics want to exercise their way to lower weight and better BG control, fine. We all choose our own way. Still, should they tire of cycling the low carb high fat option will still be there.
And if fat diabetics want to exercise their way to lower weight and better BG control, fine. We all choose our own way. Still, should they tire of cycling the low carb high fat option will still be there.
NoCrbs4Me
Well-Known Member
Well, I think type 2 is rather a complex thing. I think these ratios and tests are applicable for metabolic syndrome related type 2 diabetes, but maybe not for other kinds of type 2, like steroid induced. I think the TG/HDL ratio you quoted is in mmol/L, not mg/dL. In that case optimal is below 0.87. Mine is 0.42 in mmol/L units. Also, perhaps you're not insulin resistant, but just not producing enough insulin.
NoCrbs4Me
Well-Known Member
Yes, if I eat carbs I get a a pretty normal response, in my opinion. I've tried that more than once since I'v reversed my type 2. I suppose if I ate lots of carbs for a few months and got fat again I'd probably have type 2 diabetes again, but I'm not planning to since I believe a high carb diet is not healthy in general. Based on multiple lines of evidence, I believe my type 2 diabetes is reversed. A doctor specializing in diabetes told me so as well, not that I take everything doctors say at face value.
NoCrbs4Me
Well-Known Member
@Bluetit1802
Why do you think your type 2 is not in remission?
Why do you think your type 2 is not in remission?
