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You can't win, can you?

Discussion in 'Type 2 Diabetes' started by tom_r_orr, Oct 18, 2019.

  1. tom_r_orr

    tom_r_orr Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    I have been on LCHF for almost 2 years and in my mind have made huge improvements. One such improvement is weaning myself of 1500 Mg per day of Metformin and now have a very stable daily fasting reading of around 5.5

    Then last night I watched the Netflix series called 'Explained', in particular the one called 'Can we live forever?. Towards the end they claim the latest breakthrough in anti-aging is, found almost by accident, METFORMIN! They claim it can reduce cancer and heart disease by 30%. This made me a bit exasperated as I have a cardio issue from about 8 years ago (resulting in 3 stents), so now I am thinking is this just another debacle in the same vein as big pharma pushing statins (which I also stopped)?

    Just when you think you are winning, something pops up to muddy the water again.

    Anyone seen this, what are your thoughts?
     
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  2. Jim Lahey

    Jim Lahey I reversed my Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Personally I don't buy it. Humans don't have a Metformin deficiency. They'll be putting it in the water next along with fluoride :shifty:

    For the avoidance of doubt I am not anti-Metformin and people should continue to take it if they wish. I took it for more than a year and had no issues with it, but I find the notion that everyone should take it because it will make them live longer quite unsettling, and about as believable as the statin/cholesterol Jackanory.
     
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  3. Brunneria

    Brunneria Other · Moderator
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    I have said before (and I’ll say it again ;) ) that if I could get someone to prescribe Metformin, I would take it like a shot. But my HbA1c is below the prescription level, and around here, the CCG does not approve Met for PCOS. Pity IMHO. I would like it for the way it lowers insulin resistance.

    having said that, all this sudden flurry of new Metformin research and sudden reveal of ‘new’ benefits came about because it’s patent ran out.

    as a hugely popular widely used drug, cheap to produce and well known to prescribers world wide, the income stream to the patent holders was about to dry up... and suddenly they ‘discover’ a raft of new amazing benefits for it.

    does this invalidate those benefits? Nope.
    But I would want to read the original study data VERY carefully before I accepted the hype. Also the dosage needed to achieve these wonderful benefits. Also the important fact that long term use of Metformin leads to Vit B12 deficiency in a large number of patients.

    I mean, not much point in living for ever if that living is a living hell of B12 deficiency induced neuropathy, is there? Especially when the informed patient can supplement with B12 long before any deficiency appears.

    how many people get warned about that, when they are cheerfully prescribed Metformin for years? With the expectation they will be on it for the rest of their natural.
     
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    #3 Brunneria, Oct 18, 2019 at 7:03 AM
    Last edited: Oct 18, 2019
  4. tom_r_orr

    tom_r_orr Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Interesting response thank you.

    I was on Metformin for a few years, prescribed AFTER i developed neuropathy in my feet. One reason I stopped.

    I found B12 supplements inefective and am now trying R-Alpha Lipoic Acid (R-ALA) which after 3 months is also so far ineffective. I bought these in the USA while on holiday. Supplements just don't seem to work for me. Where I live I can buy 99% of drugs over the counter (Thailand) but at the moment have no notion to re-start taking metformin.
     
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  5. VMK

    VMK · Well-Known Member

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    Yes, and I don’t suppose for one minute it protects against dementia?

    I have a family member who is 93 and in ok physical health but has severe dementia. She would have hated this and would not have wanted to spend her final years in this state...
     
    #5 VMK, Oct 18, 2019 at 8:47 PM
    Last edited: Oct 18, 2019
  6. Resurgam

    Resurgam Type 2 (in remission!) · Expert

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    I lasted five weeks on Metformin and Atorvastatin - the final straw was wandering around the supermarket car park trying to find the car and dragging a trolley full of Christmas shopping - then I found the car, opened up the back - and it was full of shopping. We were eating sprouts until February.
    I was incontinent, in pain from the aches in my gut, joints and muscles, everything tasted funny, I itched all over I kept burning the dinner as I forgot about that too - I forgot all my songs and had to learn them again - they are coming back now, a couple of years later.
    I thought that I would be in a home before long - but it was not dementia but the tablets. The nurses have all encouraged me to take the tablets again - as they do nothing but good.
    Yeah - right.
     
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  7. Rachox

    Rachox Type 2 (in remission!) · Moderator
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    I feel I should comment on this thread as I am one who has chosen to stay on Metformin despite having had a non diabetic HbA1c for over two years. I’ve read about the other benefits aside from reducing insulin resistance and liver dumping, and I tolerate it well. I did have to insist on getting my Vitamin B12 levels checked as my diabetes nurse didn’t know about the risk of deficiency. My levels so far are normal but I have taken the precaution of supplementing with a Vitamin B complex since just after my type 2 diagnosis.
     
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  8. Hotpepper20000

    Hotpepper20000 · Well-Known Member

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    I have been taking Metformin for three years and only get stomach problems if I eat too many carbs.
    I don’t think the metformin has helped my BG a great deal. I credit LCHF with that.
    I do have PCOS and it has helped with many of the symptoms. Here in Canada doctors often prescribe Metformin for women with PCOS. It is a horrible condition that causes severe insulin resistance, weight gain, depression, infertility, and other symptoms.
    Metformin is one of very few things that works.
    While everyone must research for themselves what works for them, please don’t discourage people from talking it if they choose to. It is not a failure to have to take medication to manage one’s health.
     
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  9. Pedros11

    Pedros11 · Newbie

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    So, speaking solely about diabetes2 for a minute, can anyone say what HbA1c levels you have to have to be prescribed Metformin? And looking past that, where do you have to be for you to reduce or stop taking it?
     
  10. Hotpepper20000

    Hotpepper20000 · Well-Known Member

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    My understanding of metformin and I am open to being corrected, doesn't lower the BG much but does help with insulin resistance.
     
  11. Robin233

    Robin233 · BANNED

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    The side effects of Metformin are mainly diarrhea, stomach upset or paralysis. It should be noted that Metformin should be taken with food to reduce gastrointestinal side effects.
     
  12. Mike d

    Mike d Type 2 · Expert

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    Everyone here knows the potential side effects of Metformin. But paralysis? I have NEVER heard of that.
     
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  13. Rachox

    Rachox Type 2 (in remission!) · Moderator
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    Do you have a reference for Metformin causing paralysis? It’s not a problem that I am aware of.
     
  14. Tipetoo

    Tipetoo Type 2 · Expert

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  15. Brunneria

    Brunneria Other · Moderator
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    I’ wondering if ‘paralysis’ might be an autocorrect word choice, but I can’t work out what the intended word could have been...?
     
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  16. Jim Lahey

    Jim Lahey I reversed my Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    There appears to be some tenuous links to psoriasis?
     
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  17. JohnEGreen

    JohnEGreen Other · Master

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    I thought it quite obvious what was being referred to I may be wrong but.

    gastroparesis "Gastro" means stomach and "paresis" means impairment or paralysis
     
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  18. Rachox

    Rachox Type 2 (in remission!) · Moderator
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    I see where you’re coming from, uncontrolled Diabetes can cause gastroparesis, however whilst Metformin does slow digestion to a degree it is nowhere near as severe as gastroparesis itself. In my view the word paralysis was over dramatic in this case.
     
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  19. JohnEGreen

    JohnEGreen Other · Master

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    The reference in the post in question was, " stomach upset or paralysis", if you agree or not that metformin can cause or exacerbate it, I take that to be a reference to gastroparesis.
     
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  20. JohnEGreen

    JohnEGreen Other · Master

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    "Iatrogenic exacerbations of gastroparesis by therapies for hyperglycemia may be precipitated by agents that interfere with the neuroendocrine axis. Nausea may occur with metformin and this may well be related to the recently reported effect of metformin inhibiting dipeptidyl peptidase-4 (DPP-4) and raising glucagon-like peptide-1 (GLP-1).26 Of course, both nausea and vomiting are common with GLP-1 analogs and are the most common causes of therapy failure.24,25,27 Alternative diabetic agents that have also been implicated in exacerbating delayed gastric emptying are the amylinomimetic therapies such as pramlintide"

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3118275/
     
    • Informative Informative x 2
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