Zero carb/no plant food

lucylocket61

Expert
Messages
6,435
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Diet only
886 days.
thanks. So its a bit early to tell of any long term effects. Apart from diabetes, were you otherwise healthy? I am interested, as the idea of giving up so many carbs is a new avenue for me to explore. Hope you dont mind me asking.
 

Dr Snoddy

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,325
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Diet only
Dislikes
Trolls
With respect I think this is misleading, because there is at least one fine example of a European living for a full year with the Inuit eating the same diet as them and surviving and thriving.

I suspect that the Inuit also have/had some access to Vitamin C through berries traded from further South. As far as I know not all Inuit lived their lives 100% ice bound.

The sometimes reliable Wikipedia says:
"Vitamins and minerals which are typically derived from plant sources are nonetheless present in most Inuit diets. Vitamins A and D are present in the oils and livers of cold-water fishes and mammals. Vitamin C is obtained through sources such as caribou liver, kelp, whale skin, and seal brain; because these foods are typically eaten raw or frozen, the vitamin C they contain, which would be destroyed by cooking, is instead preserved."
Hi, Littlegreycat. This topic is producing some really interesting links and studies. My comment / crack about the traditional Inuit diet, Vitamin C and scurvy has made me search for the original article. Current studies suggest that fat and connective tissue of WILD animals that feed on a large range of food sources may contain enough nutrients to sustain humans. Unlike Inuits most of our meat is farmed and has a different, less varied nutritional profile from wild meat. Also, as you pointed out, Inuits traditionally ate all of a carcass, much of it raw. The amount of VitC needed to prevent scurvy is very small, about 10mcg per day?, but this is not necessarily an optimal level.
www.discovermagazine.com/2004/oct/inuit-paradox
Also, one person surviving for a year on an all meat diet without any apparent ill effects does not a study make. As we all know from experience we vary in our individual dietary requirements quite considerably.
 

lucylocket61

Expert
Messages
6,435
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Diet only
Following on from my previous post - would it have to be red meat? I have TMJ and my teeth are not too brilliant either (toothless old hag comes to mind) so chewing hunks of meat is not an option for me.

there are many paleo website around, and suggestion please for a non-dodgy one?
 

NoCrbs4Me

Well-Known Member
Messages
3,700
Type of diabetes
I reversed my Type 2
Treatment type
Other
Dislikes
Vegetables
thanks. So its a bit early to tell of any long term effects. Apart from diabetes, were you otherwise healthy? I am interested, as the idea of giving up so many carbs is a new avenue for me to explore. Hope you dont mind me asking.
I had some intestinal issues that went away when I stopped eating plants.
 

NoCrbs4Me

Well-Known Member
Messages
3,700
Type of diabetes
I reversed my Type 2
Treatment type
Other
Dislikes
Vegetables
Following on from my previous post - would it have to be red meat? I have TMJ and my teeth are not too brilliant either (toothless old hag comes to mind) so chewing hunks of meat is not an option for me.

there are many paleo website around, and suggestion please for a non-dodgy one?
Minced beef would be fine. There are some zero carbers that only eat minced beef - some eat it raw, most eat it cooked.
 

NoCrbs4Me

Well-Known Member
Messages
3,700
Type of diabetes
I reversed my Type 2
Treatment type
Other
Dislikes
Vegetables
indeed, which is why it perplexes me
That's understandable. It goes in the face of the standard government advice to eat "5 a day", lots of carbs, lots of fibre, and very little fat or red meat. It's almost the opposite of the government diet.
 

Dr Snoddy

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,325
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Diet only
Dislikes
Trolls
I think that blurb about vitamin C is a bit off the mark. I don't eat much seafood, no liver for more than 1 1/2 years, no brains (yuck), no raw meat, no kelp, no whale skin, and don't take vitamin c supplements. Most of the meat I eat has been aged 40 to 60 days or longer. I doubt my intake of vitamin c is any where near enough to prevent scurvy according to current science, yet I don't have scurvy.
Hi NoCrbs4Me. I am really intrigued by your diet and am fascinated to find someone who can eat in this way. Do you drink tea, coffee or wine at all?
When I can find suitable references to energy transfers in food production etc I shall post them. At the moment I am using this thread as an excuse for not decluttering my study!
 

NoCrbs4Me

Well-Known Member
Messages
3,700
Type of diabetes
I reversed my Type 2
Treatment type
Other
Dislikes
Vegetables
Hi, Littlegreycat. This topic is producing some really interesting links and studies. My comment / crack about the traditional Inuit diet, Vitamin C and scurvy has made me search for the original article. Current studies suggest that fat and connective tissue of WILD animals that feed on a large range of food sources may contain enough nutrients to sustain humans. Unlike Inuits most of our meat is farmed and has a different, less varied nutritional profile from wild meat. Also, as you pointed out, Inuits traditionally ate all of a carcass, much of it raw. The amount of VitC needed to prevent scurvy is very small, about 10mcg per day?, but this is not necessarily an optimal level.
www.discovermagazine.com/2004/oct/inuit-paradox
Also, one person surviving for a year on an all meat diet without any apparent ill effects does not a study make. As we all know from experience we vary in our individual dietary requirements quite considerably.
I doubt the meat I eat is deficient in any nutrients that humans need. Do you have a link to these "current studies"? The Inuit did not eat all of a carcass (unless they were starving) - they give the innards to the dogs. Most of what they ate was cooked, at least according to the European explorers that lived with them. Anyway, that's neither here nor there. Regular meat from a grocery store has all the nutrition a person needs.
 

NoCrbs4Me

Well-Known Member
Messages
3,700
Type of diabetes
I reversed my Type 2
Treatment type
Other
Dislikes
Vegetables
Hi NoCrbs4Me. I am really intrigued by your diet and am fascinated to find someone who can eat in this way. Do you drink tea, coffee or wine at all?
When I can find suitable references to energy transfers in food production etc I shall post them. At the moment I am using this thread as an excuse for not decluttering my study!
I drink coffee and occasionally have wine or spirits. I even go off the rails sometimes and eat non-zero carb food, but not very often.

What do you mean "can eat this way"? I don't think I have any special physiological adaptations compared to other people.

I think it might be difficult to quantify the environmental costs of meat versus plant foods. You'd have to take into account the conditions where the food is produced (e.g. the chemicals used to control weeds, the energy spent planting and harvesting, the effect of irrigation),the amount of wastage (more than half of fruit/veg don't make it to a plate, from what I've read), the energy spent storing and shipping it it thousands of miles (in my case from California and farther), etc. My guess is that the way I eat comes out ahead as it's all local (no more than 100 miles or so) and the cattle eat mostly grass on land that is not suitable to grow anything else. You'll most likely be able to find vegan propaganda that says otherwise, though.
 

Pinkorchid

Well-Known Member
Messages
2,927
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Diet only
That's understandable. It goes in the face of the standard government advice to eat "5 a day", lots of carbs, lots of fibre, and very little fat or red meat. It's almost the opposite of the government diet.
What if we are someone that does not like much meat. I don't eat red meat so just mostly chicken but I don't think we could just live on chicken and be healthy because it is low fat and presumably you need the saturated fat so chicken would not have enough Not that never eating plant foods would be an option for me I love vegetables to much
 

NoCrbs4Me

Well-Known Member
Messages
3,700
Type of diabetes
I reversed my Type 2
Treatment type
Other
Dislikes
Vegetables
What if we are someone that does not like much meat. I don't eat red meat so just mostly chicken but I don't think we could just live on chicken and be healthy because it is low fat and presumably you need the saturated fat so chicken would not have enough Not that never eating plant foods would be an option for me I love vegetables to much
According to the zero carb experts, you eat the meat you enjoy. "Meat" being anything from the animal kingdom. So, eating chicken should be fine. I'd leave the skin on, though. Chicken has almost as much saturated fat as beef.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Pinkorchid

LittleGreyCat

Well-Known Member
Messages
4,239
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Tablets (oral)
Dislikes
Diet drinks - the artificial sweeteners taste vile.
Having to forswear foods I have loved all my life.
Trying to find low carb meals when eating out.
What if we are someone that does not like much meat. I don't eat red meat so just mostly chicken but I don't think we could just live on chicken and be healthy because it is low fat and presumably you need the saturated fat so chicken would not have enough Not that never eating plant foods would be an option for me I love vegetables to much

If you just eat skinless chicken breast (portions from the supermarket) then you probably would have deficiencies. However if you roast the whole bird, eat the skin, save the juices, and boil the remains up for stock which you combine with the saved juices for a broth or the basis of a soup you will get a lot more nutrients including fat.

Chicken broth/soup is a traditional food for convalescents.

Of course I would include vegetables in the soup which gets us away from the zero vegetable route but a chicken is a very good part of a LCHF diet, not least for the broth.

Which reminds me that if you boil meat you should always drink the broth because the boiling takes the potassium out of the meat.
 

Dr Snoddy

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,325
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Diet only
Dislikes
Trolls
I drink coffee and occasionally have wine or spirits. I even go off the rails sometimes and eat non-zero carb food, but not very often.

What do you mean "can eat this way"? I don't think I have any special physiological adaptations compared to other people.

I think it might be difficult to quantify the environmental costs of meat versus plant foods. You'd have to take into account the conditions where the food is produced (e.g. the chemicals used to control weeds, the energy spent planting and harvesting, the effect of irrigation),the amount of wastage (more than half of fruit/veg don't make it to a plate, from what I've read), the energy spent storing and shipping it it thousands of miles (in my case from California and farther), etc. My guess is that the way I eat comes out ahead as it's all local (no more than 100 miles or so) and the cattle eat mostly grass on land that is not suitable to grow anything else. You'll most likely be able to find vegan propaganda
I drink coffee and occasionally have wine or spirits. I even go off the rails sometimes and eat non-zero carb food, but not very often.

What do you mean "can eat this way"? I don't think I have any special physiological adaptations compared to other people.

I think it might be difficult to quantify the environmental costs of meat versus plant foods. You'd have to take into account the conditions where the food is produced (e.g. the chemicals used to control weeds, the energy spent planting and harvesting, the effect of irrigation),the amount of wastage (more than half of fruit/veg don't make it to a plate, from what I've read), the energy spent storing and shipping it it thousands of miles (in my case from California and farther), etc. My guess is that the way I eat comes out ahead as it's all local (no more than 100 miles or so) and the cattle eat mostly grass on land that is not suitable to grow anything else. You'll most likely be able to find vegan propaganda that says otherwise, though.
 

Dr Snoddy

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,325
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Diet only
Dislikes
Trolls
www.bbc.co.uk/education/guides/z2m39j6/revision/6

This is very simplistic summary illustrating the loss of energy each time one organism consumes another. As I have said before some land cannot be used for growing crops and therefore a limited amount of the energy available in the grass can be transferred to the tissue of e.g. cattle and beef becomes a human food source. I hope this answers your question. However, the energy needs of many of the world's people is being met at the producer (plant) level and eating meat is a rare option.
 

ghost_whistler

Well-Known Member
Messages
612
Then why not try it and see how you get on?
You may even unperplex yourself.
Certainly, but my concern is that, oftentimes, diet related health issues don't manifest except over a long period of time. I don't really feel comfortable enough trying it and would be concerned that, given i already eat quite a bit of protein, upping that amount might be genuinely problematic.

I also don't feel there's any reason not to eat veg. I don't think plant food is causing my any issues, YMMV.

i'd like to see more studies done on this before I'm convinced
 

ghost_whistler

Well-Known Member
Messages
612
That's understandable. It goes in the face of the standard government advice to eat "5 a day", lots of carbs, lots of fibre, and very little fat or red meat. It's almost the opposite of the government diet.

I eat primarily chicken+skin, with some pork for breakfast. I'm not sure that would be sufficient without plants to supplement.

I must say i don't really have a taste for beef, and try as I might liver, while heavily nutritious, is just 'orrible!
 

ghost_whistler

Well-Known Member
Messages
612
According to the zero carb experts, you eat the meat you enjoy. "Meat" being anything from the animal kingdom. So, eating chicken should be fine. I'd leave the skin on, though. Chicken has almost as much saturated fat as beef.
tesco's minced beef with the most fat i could find was 11g fat/100g
tescos chicken thighs+skin are 17g/100g.

Fatty meat is not easy to find these days. Butchers might supply it but most butchers don't tell you how much fat is in the product, and are unfortuantely very expensive.
 

bulkbiker

BANNED
Messages
19,575
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Diet only
Certainly, but my concern is that, oftentimes, diet related health issues don't manifest except over a long period of time. I don't really feel comfortable enough trying it and would be concerned that, given i already eat quite a bit of protein, upping that amount might be genuinely problematic.

I also don't feel there's any reason not to eat veg. I don't think plant food is causing my any issues, YMMV.

i'd like to see more studies done on this before I'm convinced

So your reason for starting the thread was?