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X-pert course updated to include LCHF

dbr10

dbr10

Well-Known Member
Messages
2,237
Location
Birmingham
Type of diabetes
Treatment type
Tablets (oral)
When I attended the X-Pert diabetes course last year, after first having read Dr Bernstein and Judi Rhule, I was absolutely dismayed to be given the eatwell plate message and to basically be told to stuff yourself with carbs.

Today I attended an updated course which includes the LCHF diet as a suggested option for people.

About time.

I also saw a lady I met last year whose doctor wanted to put her on insulin. She said she couldn't take metformin, so I suggested the slow release version. She asked her doctor for it and Hba1c has come down dramatically in combination with her other medication.
 
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dbr10 said:
When I attended the X-Pert diabetes course last year, after first having read Dr Bernstein and Judi Rhule, I was absolutely dismayed to be given the eatwell plate message and to basically be told to stuff yourself with carbs.

Today I attended an updated course which includes the LCHF diet as a suggested option for people.

About time.
Click to expand...

May I make comment, I have looked hard at the HFLC diet. I have a friend who is utterly fanatical about it. Saying to him there may be hidden consequences down the line is like trying to tell the pope there is no God. After many conversations with the Face Book HFLC Guru's I have drawn this conclusion. The HFLC diet is a very complicated subject and to make the diet work you must keep on top of your food intake 24/7. Now given that not every one is as clued up as your average nutritionist. There is a very strong possibility that the final message of HFLC will be lost as people take it to the extreme. Because a bit of what is good for you is just brilliant, so a lot of whats good for you must be better.I feel we may be swooping chubby type two's today for very under weight anorexics in about 15 years time. Then there are the people who'll get it all wrong and mess their bodies up. Many of our American cousins actively promote putting large amounts of butter into their coffee. Spoon full of lard any one?
 
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Bobby59 said:
May I make comment, I have looked hard at the HFLC diet. I have a friend who is utterly fanatical about it. Saying to him there may be hidden consequences down the line is like trying to tell the pope there is no God. After many conversations with the Face Book HFLC Guru's I have drawn this conclusion. The HFLC diet is a very complicated subject and to make the diet work you must keep on top of your food intake 24/7.
Click to expand...
Hi Bobby
As you haven't given us any indication of your diabetes status but seem very keen on warning us folks about the "dangers" of LCHF, in your opinion of course, it's hard to see exactly what you are here for. If you are really interested read some of the testimonials on the success stories threads. If you want more scientific evidence rather than the anecdote about your cycling buddy then try www.dietdoctor.com. If you want our advice on which diet has worked best for us Type 2's then ask away.
What would you like help with.
Regards
Mark
 
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@dbr10 that is good news. Was there as much time given over to it as low GI? Was there any mention of the Newcastle study?
 
Andrew Colvin said:
@dbr10 that is good news. Was there as much time given over to it as low GI? Was there any mention of the Newcastle study?
Click to expand...
LCHF was presented as another option alongside HCLF and the 'Mediterranean' diet, so still hedging their bets a little, but a step in the right direction. GI was just mentioned a little. No mention of the Newcastle study at all. As usual with these things, people chatted and slowed things up a bit. There were some points listed up on the board which the nurse only touched on very briefly. It would have benefitted from it being a longer session.
 
When I did mine it was all about the eatwell plate and low GI so things have moved quite a long way in 2 years
 
Bobby59 said:
May I make comment, I have looked hard at the HFLC diet. I have a friend who is utterly fanatical about it. Saying to him there may be hidden consequences down the line is like trying to tell the pope there is no God. After many conversations with the Face Book HFLC Guru's I have drawn this conclusion. The HFLC diet is a very complicated subject and to make the diet work you must keep on top of your food intake 24/7. Now given that not every one is as clued up as your average nutritionist. There is a very strong possibility that the final message of HFLC will be lost as people take it to the extreme. Because a bit of what is good for you is just brilliant, so a lot of whats good for you must be better.I feel we may be swooping chubby type two's today for very under weight anorexics in about 15 years time. Then there are the people who'll get it all wrong and mess their bodies up. Many of our American cousins actively promote putting large amounts of butter into their coffee. Spoon full of lard any one?
Click to expand...

An interesting discussion here
http://www.diabetes.co.uk/forum/threads/what-is-the-hf-in-lchf.96305/page-4
probably a better thread than this one.
 
Has anybody checked out the daily mail today to read the new eat well plate guidelines? More carbs being recommended.. Not less. So poor old Dr Trudi Deakin and Dr Usher words are just falling on deaf ears...
 
I am looking to use the HFLC diet at some stage, but I just want to know what the down sides are if any.I am judging on information from the internet (all very confusing) and my experiences with my fanatical buddy. When out on a bicycle ride I told him I use a off the shelf electrolyte sports drink (High5 ZERO) to replenish salts lost during sweating. He told me of some never heard of sugar not yet registered that was supposedly in the drink. I have spoken to some of the internet guru's about my buddy and most of them said he is taking it to far and seems to have gone zero carbs. Is this a case of a bit of what dose you good is good so lots of what dose you good has to be better?
 
bulkbiker said:
Hi Bobby
As you haven't given us any indication of your diabetes status but seem very keen on warning us folks about the "dangers" of LCHF, in your opinion of course, it's hard to see exactly what you are here for. If you are really interested read some of the testimonials on the success stories threads. If you want more scientific evidence rather than the anecdote about your cycling buddy then try www.dietdoctor.com. If you want our advice on which diet has worked best for us Type 2's then ask away.
What would you like help with.
Regards
Mark
Click to expand...

Type two for a year with added bladder cancer lucky me. This is the problem given the huge amount of miss information on the internet can you truly trust the word of experts who not so long ago was telling us fats were bad Mkay. I spoke to my doctor about the HFLC diet and he said the jury is still out and I should just stick to a balanced diet for now. One other thing I will not be bullied into submitting to your agree with me or get the F..K out tactics.
 
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Bobby59 said:
Type two for a year with added bladder cancer lucky me. This is the problem given the huge amount of miss information on the internet can you truly trust the word of experts who not so long ago was telling us fats were bad Mkay. I spoke to my doctor about the HFLC diet and he said the jury is still out and I should just stick to a balanced diet for now. One other thing I will not be bullied into submitting to your agree with me or get the F..K out tactics.
Click to expand...
Hi @Bobby59 I tend to look upon it as a Low Carb Full Fat diet in that I have cut down on my carbs but not as low as some forum members and replaced the low fat foods that I used to eat with butter, cheese, whole milk, full fat yoghurts etc and have no qualms about eating eggs and meat etc. I also eat much less fruit than I did. My hba1c is now 36 and I've lost about 3 stone so it works for me.
 
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Bobby59 said:
Type two for a year with added bladder cancer lucky me. This is the problem given the huge amount of miss information on the internet can you truly trust the word of experts who not so long ago was telling us fats were bad Mkay. I spoke to my doctor about the HFLC diet and he said the jury is still out and I should just stick to a balanced diet for now. One other thing I will not be bullied into submitting to your agree with me or get the F..K out tactics.
Click to expand...
Your doctor is obliged to follow the NICE guidelines that do not advocate LCHF so its unlikely you would get any other advice from any Healthcare professional (apart from a few low carb mavericks like Dr Ranjan Chatterjee). The balanced diet that the NHS recommends probably won't help you control your blood sugars so its entirely up to you what you do. From personal experience and that of many others on these fora cutting out carbs helps to do this and eating more fat provides a satiety that does not trigger bouts of snacking. Rather than bullying you I was trying to ascertain what you wanted from us. Most new members start by outlining their problems and what they would like advice on rather than immediately questioning that way a number of us control our Type 2. Now you have explained your position I still can't really see why you chose to introduce yourself in that way. However each to their own. I hope you are able to control your condition whichever way you choose.
 
Daphne917 said:
Hi @Bobby59 I tend to look upon it as a Low Carb Full Fat diet in that I have cut down on my carbs but not as low as some forum members and replaced the low fat foods that I used to eat with butter, cheese, whole milk, full fat yoghurts etc and have no qualms about eating eggs and meat etc. I also eat much less fruit than I did. My hba1c is now 36 and I've lost about 3 stone so it works for me.
Click to expand...

Thank you Daphne917 For the moment this is the strategy I am adopting, I love pasta and roast potatoes with a Sunday lunch the thought of never being able to have them any more is very depressing.
 
bulkbiker said:
Your doctor is obliged to follow the NICE guidelines that do not advocate LCHF so its unlikely you would get any other advice from any Healthcare professional (apart from a few low carb mavericks like Dr Ranjan Chatterjee). The balanced diet that the NHS recommends probably won't help you control your blood sugars so its entirely up to you what you do. From personal experience and that of many others on these fora cutting out carbs helps to do this and eating more fat provides a satiety that does not trigger bouts of snacking. Rather than bullying you I was trying to ascertain what you wanted from us. Most new members start by outlining their problems and what they would like advice on rather than immediately questioning that way a number of us control our Type 2. Now you have explained your position I still can't really see why you chose to introduce yourself in that way. However each to their own. I hope you are able to control your condition whichever way you choose.
Click to expand...

bulkbiker, I think you miss understand my point While I appreciate that you only wish to help. But trying to forcing your opinions on me, is I feel totally the wrong approach. You said "Your doctor is obliged" My doctor took an oath to "first do no harm" so until he is 100% sure he is not going going to give me what could be bad advice. I am also 100% sure he is not going to second guess or follow any "NICE" guidelines. I have known this man for many years and a bloody lot longer than I have known you and he has never failed me yet. I value his advice above all others and frankly I find your passive aggressive manner to very annoying so can I ask that you please stop this.

When I was first diagnosed I was given a booklet called "Advice for people newly diagnosed with type 2 diabetes" I still have it. This booklet offers some advice on simple life style changes and dietary changes and at the back there is a section for useful contacts included in this list is Diabetes UK Cymru. Some one with in the NHS took a lot of time to put this booklet together and must of made 100% sure the advice given to be correct..For all it's flaws the NHS are doing a brilliant job considering how grossly underfunded it is and frankly I am getting a bit sick and tired of people putting OUR NHS down. When it is gone you'll sure as hell notice the difference. When you go into a hospital and before looking at you they ask you for your credit card.

Mr bulkbiker I appreciate your offer of help but I would like you to please take a step back. I have many questions and I would like nothing more than to have a guiding hand through the process of going on the HFLC diet. When I am ready I will bombard the forum with questions.

I have come to realize my friend has gone down the road of taking things a bit to far in his HFLC diet. Thank you.
 
@bulkbiker great post. Am in 100% agreement.

@Bobby59 if all you want is to reinforce your existing views and attack people with different viewpoints, then i am sure there are enough 'internet' gurus out there to satisfy you.
 
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Bobby59 said:
May I make comment, I have looked hard at the HFLC diet. I have a friend who is utterly fanatical about it. Saying to him there may be hidden consequences down the line is like trying to tell the pope there is no God. After many conversations with the Face Book HFLC Guru's I have drawn this conclusion. The HFLC diet is a very complicated subject and to make the diet work you must keep on top of your food intake 24/7. Now given that not every one is as clued up as your average nutritionist. There is a very strong possibility that the final message of HFLC will be lost as people take it to the extreme. Because a bit of what is good for you is just brilliant, so a lot of whats good for you must be better.I feel we may be swooping chubby type two's today for very under weight anorexics in about 15 years time. Then there are the people who'll get it all wrong and mess their bodies up. Many of our American cousins actively promote putting large amounts of butter into their coffee. Spoon full of lard any one?
Click to expand...
Agree. I am personally doing LCHF / HFLC but I too have reservations about it long term. I find it helps me, and I have recently seem my endocrine system (liver et al) reset itself, and I am getting fewer swinga and roundabouts. I decided that I was not going to get anal over carb counting, portion weighing and setting difficult to meet limits. I regard it as lowER carb, highER fat.
I have seen my weight fall, and am now below my proper BMI weight. I need to up my fat intake so bulletproof coffee may go on the menu for a while.

I have concerns about my lipid panel, and will find out in a fortnight how that is going. I have seen some good seminars on lipids, but I remain sceptical about some of the claims. I also have concerns about loss of vital micronutrients so am starting to supplement again.

Its good that X-PERT felt able to include LC diet in their advice as an alternative to Eatwell. As I say, I give it a cautious thumbs up.
 
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