Reversing T2 With Diet - Who Has Done It And Who Wants To Give It A Go?

[kokhongw]

I will give intermittent fasting another go next week - once my bloods recover.

Instead of going for multi-day extended fast, you could consider just starting with skipping dinner...that will prep up the body for the fasting mode. You will then be familiar with the various sensations that are common with extended fast.

 

[Steve50]

Instead of going for multi-day extended fast, you could consider just starting with skipping dinner...that will prep up the body for the fasting mode. You will then be familiar with the various sensations that are common with extended fast.

Good plan - but I am an 'all or nothing' personality. I have to work up to fasting in my mind, like an athlete prepares for a sprint. It works for me.

In recent months my partner and I have been 'down-sizing' - motivated by a family wedding and the dreaded photographs - irreversibly casting our body images into immortality! She drew the line at 'no wine and skip meals' type rules! We both succeeded pretty well. The biggest changes we made were 1. starting the day with a tub of yogurt 2. Carefully chosen or prepared salad for lunch and 3. Reducing carb content and size of the evening meal. She lost 6kg and I lost 5 in 8 weeks.

On the down side - she purchased 7 different wedding outfits leading up to the big day, as each of them looked less appealing to her as her body shape changed! (not to mention 12 different pairs of shoes - but I put that down to a completely different affliction). Post wedding we are continuing with this - I wont call it 'diet' - life style change. At least until we reach our target.

There is no doubt in my mind that the villain on the plate was carb! Ditch the potato, refined flour, refined sugar etc and reduce the size of your dinner plate. All well known, tried and tested rules.

 

[Bebo321]

As a wife of somebody with Type 1 diabetes and a husband who monitors their blood glucose levels 24/7 with a continuous glucose monitor, it becomes clear very quickly that when diabetes strikes then all bets are off with regards to what may be considered a 'healthy' diet. Observing first hand the immediate effect that processed carbohydrates have on blood glucose levels, I personally feel that for anyone with Type 2 diabetes, the idea of following anything but a LCHF diet seems pretty foolhardy.

Congratulations to all those who are having success achieving their dieting/fasting goals

A quick question for those who have tried the fasting route.

1) Is it 'easier' to do single or multi-day fasting? (so at what point - or is there a point at which the hunger pangs subside?)
2) After a fast how can you introduce food back into the equation without feeling

 

[Living-by-the-beach]

Still fasting weight same 196lbs FBG came in at 88mg/dl (4.9mmol/L) .. Still progressing here. My feet felt that my numbers were higher but I managed not to have any munchies last night. Getting a weight bar in the back yard and doing some bicep curls. My biceps seem skinny. Yet I'll take skinny biceps over high sugars any day. Skinny biceps didn't harm Chris Froome with this TdF win..

 

[Living-by-the-beach]

As a wife of somebody with Type 1 diabetes and a husband who monitors their blood glucose levels 24/7 with a continuous glucose monitor, it becomes clear very quickly that when diabetes strikes then all bets are off with regards to what may be considered a 'healthy' diet. Observing first hand the immediate effect that processed carbohydrates have on blood glucose levels, I personally feel that for anyone with Type 2 diabetes, the idea of following anything but a LCHF diet seems pretty foolhardy.

Congratulations to all those who are having success achieving their dieting/fasting goals

A quick question for those who have tried the fasting route.

1) Is it 'easier' to do single or multi-day fasting? (so at what point - or is there a point at which the hunger pangs subside?)
2) After a fast how can you introduce food back into the equation without feeling

@Bebo321

This will seem wild but one builds up to it has been my experience. I have had good control 100mg/dl (5.6mmol/L) to 125mg/dl for the last two years but eventually I got fed up even with good control because of the neuropathy. I'd been doing 18 hour fasts per www.tinyurl.com/Dr-JasonFung and while they helped I was still starting the day with what I've been told is a diabetic 5.6+ mmol/L 100+mg/dl number . I just thought the heck with this and push it and see where it goes. My seven day average is now 91mg/dland 14 day average is 97mg/dl. Both of these are non diabetic numbers. As for the hunger after a day, if you drink lots of water and fluids you don't notice the hunger too much. You really don't.

As for your question (2) I've not gotten there yet. I am just trying to allow my body to repair itself with these lower numbers for the time being. My BMI is 23.8 as I type this and while I'm not heavy now I've still got a muffin top with some of closet full of nicely worn in jeans.. I've got to read more from Fung and start thinking about his issue for the time being I am grateful that my numbers are in the normal range.

 

[bulkbiker]

@Bebo321

I think its different for everyone.
Some people do really well on a reduced eating window every day.. such as skipping breakfast and eating lunch and dinner only so called 16-8
others go for longer periods 24-48- 72 hours
I found my lowest blood sugar readings are usually on the third day of fasting and after that they plateau a bit (probably good as it was 3.8 last time!).
I have done up to 7 days without too many pangs but it is much easier of you are Very Low Carb anyway (which I am).
Dr Fung suggests that the worst time is in the 36-48 hour bit when you are most likely to feel very hungry so maybe try to aim for this to be when you are sleeping.
I would start off slowly 16-8 then just not eating for ever longer periods if you want to try extended fasting.
Also of course the definition of fasting varies a lot. I don't eat anything solid but do have a bullet proof coffee to keep me going.

 

[Living-by-the-beach]

Hi all

The Dam Burst at about 1pm yesterday. I felt quite ill having by that time fasted for 72 hours. I had to eat something. It's tricky to find what to eat because your stomach has a connection to your head and just refuses most things. I tried a little risotto - rice being great for stomachs etc. Stayed with me for 7.03 seconds (I wont go into detail!). Sugar spiked to 9.4 this morning. Yikes! Still have hand pain.

I will give intermittent fasting another go next week - once my bloods recover.

@Steve50

I gotten to that stage too in the past. I am sure if I ate a decent sized meal I'd spike too. My highest ever is a 150 reading (or 8.3) once in two years more normally I've gotten to 140 or (7.8) three times in two years. Yet the point is moot. If I have a serious meal with out serious exercise afterwards I'm sure I'd be north of 5.6mmol/L

Sorry to hear you're finding it tough. Yet then again I was impressed with your approach to ND in the past. I couldn't do ND but I find "Dr Fung Fasting" way easier. I sense you'll be back at it soon. I know I can't abide the neuropathy. Do get your hand pain checked over..

 

[Living-by-the-beach]

I fell off the wagon with going out to dinner on Friday night. I came in with 118mg/dl FBG on Saturday 17th or 6.5 mmol/L This morning Sunday 18th I came in at 107mg/dl or 5.94mmol/L. Weight is steady at 196lb. I had 1/2 an apple on Saturday night and 2 slices of cheese. I am going to keep working at this. This for the time being makes sense to me..

Addendum, I did exercise on Friday in the gym and Saturday I cycled about 14-15 miles.. It was after I cycled on Saturday that I had the 1/2 an apple + two slices of cheese..

 

[Winnie53]

Living-by-the-beach I'm in the US too and have been fighting the good fight for about 19 months now using diet, intermittent fasting - (I fast 12 to 14 hours a day) - walking, and specific nutritional strategies. And because you are in the US I'll also mention that I've eliminated glyphosate from my diet (which damages the health and diversity of our microbiome among other things).

I've learned a lot and am still learning. Preventing and reversing neuropathy has been an area of interest for me from the beginning of this journey, in part because I crossed over into to diabetes 11 years ago and now have severe insulin resistant.

I just went back and read all your posts in this thread. Maintaining low insulin and glucose levels is foundational. You show a lot of grit. Well done.

I have question...

Have you done any readings yet on specific nutritional strategies for reversing neuropathy? This is not within the topic of this thread, but if interested, I can provide you some links to information that likely will be helpful.

 

[Living-by-the-beach]

Living-by-the-beach I'm in the US too and have been fighting the good fight for about 19 months now using diet, exercise, and nutritional strategies. And because you are in the US I'll also mention that I've eliminated glyphosate from my diet (which damages the health and diversity of our microbiome among other things).

I've learned a lot and am still learning. Preventing and reversing neuropathy has been an interest for me from early on in this journey.

I just went back and read all your posts in this thread. Maintaining low insulin and glucose levels is foundational. You show a lot of grit. Well done.

I have question...

Have you done any readings yet on nutritional strategies for reversing neuropathy? This is not within the topic of this thread, but if interested, I can provide you some links to information, publicly or privately.

@Winnie53

No I've not read anything specific about reversing neuropathy. What I did notice physically was that when my glucose was very low that my pain has all but disappeared. As a functional issue for thicker blood I've added Kimchee to my diet as the probiotic effect to my diet supposedly is to lower cholesterol. Put the links up publicly it helps everyone..

 

[Winnie53]

Okay, here we go - (it's going to take me a while so I'll post, edit, save, post, edit, save, as I go, so be patient with me)...

Here's a link to a thread on neuropathy that is huge and overwhelming but provides a good overview of what others here have done... http://www.diabetes.co.uk/forum/threads/help-in-dealing-with-neuropathy.74653/ Pay particular attention to Omnipod's posts. It takes perhaps an hour and a half to read through the entire thread. If you take notes, and I suggest you do, note post numbers within your notes so you can go back and re-read as needed. That will keep you busy while I pull this information together for you.

This is the book helped Omnipod develop his specific nutritional strategy: The Antioxidant Miracle: Put Lipoic Acid, Pycnogenol, and Vitamins E and C to Work for You by Lester Packer, Ph.D. (1999)... https://www.amazon.com/Antioxidant-Miracle-Lipoic-Pycnogenol-Vitamins/dp/0471353116/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1429549720&sr=8-1&keywords='The+antioxidant+Miracle'

The author of this book is a leader in our understanding of how anti-oxidants work. Read the book reviews and do a search on his name to learn more. This book has stood the test of time, and is still being read and used today.

Additionally, there are two books that gave me a lot of useful information based on authors professional clinical experience treating neuropathy patients - (though I don't particularly like the authors)...

Defeat Neuropathy Now: In Spite of Your Doctor (2014) by Valerie Monteiro, D.C. and John Coppola, D.C. https://www.amazon.com/Defeat-Neuro...TF8&qid=1474221305&sr=1-2&keywords=neuropathy This book gave me a good overview of what each nutrient does to help with neuropathy. I read the last half of the book first.

Neuropathy: How To Relieve Foot Numbness, Tingling, Burning, and Cramping Without Drugs or Surgery (2014) by Philip A. Straw, D.C. https://www.amazon.com/Neuropathy-R...ng-Cramping/dp/1492148482/ref=asap_bc?ie=UTF8 This book gave me a good understanding of how neuropathy develops and progresses, also on three types of specialized equipment they use in their practice to reverse damage. That said, he's very clear in his book that there is a point where reversal isn't possible, and from what I read in the book and elsewhere, they do not give people false hope. They do turn away those who are too damaged to help. Based on all my readings to date, I believe that most people can reverse neuropathy with the low carb/ketogenic diet, daily or every other day exercise, and the specific nutritional supplements listed in these books. No expensive equipment needed but good to know about if nothing else works.

And finally, there is a hand surgeon in the US who developed a formulation specific for neuropathy. I can't post a link because the moderators will remove it but his name is Dr. Michael Fitzmaurice, M.D., "a board certified surgeon with additional training and certification in both Hand and Reconstructive Microsurgery."

Monteiro and Coppola also have a nutritional formulation for neuropathy.

I can't comment on either formulation because I already take most of the nutrients in each formulation individually using supplements that are primarily sourced from organic, whole foods, but if I had neuropathy - (I don't because I reversed mine) - using one of these two formulations likely would be a good place to start.

Hope that helps.

Oh, I almost forgot. For those living in the US, here's two online lectures/interviews I'd listen to that explain how heavy metals and glyphosate are contributing to diabetes and other chronic health conditions...

Toxic Metal and Persistent Organic Pollutants, Joseph Pizzorno, 2011...

He is coming out with a book on how to detox the body in 2017. I have read enough on detoxing to understand that if not done properly, it can be damaging, so I am choosing to first eat the highest quality sources of food available, organic, non-GMO, take nutritional supplements, use fasting and exercise, and lose weight before doing a detox.

GMO Foods, Glyphosate, Autism & Obesity, Stephanie Seneff interviewed by Mike Mutzel, 2016...

The information in these two online videos changed my life. They are highly relevant for those of us who have diabetes. They informed and changed how my husband and I eat.

 

[Roytaylorjasonfunglover]

This is a recent lecture by professor Roy Taylor from Newcastle university. He belives that type 2 diabetes is curable with weightloss, for some. These are his newest findings from research on curing type 2 diabetes, give it a look, just look with double speed if you think its to long, its packed full of good information.

 

[nemiabonny]

Hi

I am sorry if I came across as singling you out, it was not meant that way and I am in no way trying to minimize your success or discourage anyone from giving people hope. The day I wrote that was a very bad day for me and I should not have been posting at all. You have my sincerest apologies. My intention was to point out that not everyone is at the same stage of D or easily controlled not to pick on you. You are entirely right that the things we eat and the things we do have a profound effect on our health. I wish you well.

Chalup,

There is nothing to be sorry about. Please stay focused on controlling your diabetes and you will eventually do well. Please understand that I got lucky insofar as my diabetes is concerned. I got DUMB (disciplined, upbeat, motivated, bold).

In short, please eat the food you love but make sure that you know how to burn all the calories that you take in, and also please note that your body is nicely programmed to tell you what to eat and when to stop eating.

Enjoy life always!!!

Bonny C Damocles

 

[Indy51]

This is a recent lecture by professor Roy Taylor from Newcastle university. He belives that type 2 diabetes is curable with weightloss, for some. These are his newest findings from research on curing type 2 diabetes, give it a look, just look with double speed if you think its to long, its packed full of good information.

When I try to play the video, it gives a playback error?

 

[MikePea]

I am now off medication. LCHF has done it for me. That diet means a new attitude to eating. You cant just eat what you like. But there are many good choices available. Try something new. You will be supprised at what you like.
Its not a cure but I feel much more healthy, lost a lot of weight and exercise has helped old age to become more bearable.

 

[Living-by-the-beach]

Its been a few days since I posted so my FBGs have been from 104 to 110mg/d or 5.8 to 6.1mmol/L. None of which are non-diabetic, yet still good control. I've fasted for 68 hours up until yesterday and each day I've cycled around about 18 miles each evening. I can't fast continuously, as in forever as its just too much, I am feeling healthier.. I'll keep you all updated I am going to eat normally and then start fasting again on Saturday..

 

[Winnie53]

Living-by-the-beach, diet, exercise, and fasting has really helped me too.

Someone reminded me of this post today. Thought it might offer you encouragement. I copied and pasted it for you below...

This is interesting...

Post-Marketing Surveillance of Fixed Dose Combination of Methylcobalamin, Alpha Lipoic Acid, Folic Acid, Biotin, Benfotiamine & Vitamin B6-Nutripathy for the Management of Peripheral Neuropathy,Vol.4 No.2, May 2014

http://www.scirp.org/journal/PaperInformation.aspx?PaperID=46105

ABSTRACT

Background: Peripheral neuropathy is a commonly encountered troublesome condition which is often disabling & worsens when left untreated. Traditional neuropathic pain medications primarily provide symptomatic relief; however, the pathogenesis of nerve damage remains unresolved. Extensive literature survey reveals that patients with peripheral neuropathy experience significant benefits with the use of B-vitamins like methylcobalamin (B12), folic acid (B9), biotin (B7), benfotiamine (B1) and pyridoxine (B6). The other well documented antineuropathic agents include alpha lipoic acid, glutathione, omega fatty acids, myoinositol, certain trace elements, etc.Materials and Methods: A multicentre, prospective, open-label, non-comparative clinical study was carried out in 497 patients with peripheral neuropathy. A fixed dose combination of methylcobalamin, alpha lipoic acid (ALA), folic acid, biotin, benfotiamine & vitamin B6 capsule was orally administered once daily for 12 weeks.Results: Treatment led to significant reduction from baseline score in various neuropathy symptoms from the 4th week itself. After 12 weeks of treatment, the mean pain score declined by 78.0%, numbness by 92.1% and muscle weakness by 96.9%. Also, there was 96.0% & 99.2% reduction in tingling & burning sensation respectively. No serious adverse events were reported.Conclusion: The current study confirms that fixed dose combination of methylcobalamin, ALA, folic acid, biotin, benfotiamine & vitamin B6 is effective & well tolerated in the management of peripheral neuropathy.

The full study can be downloaded in PDF format.

 

[Freema]

Wonder What dose the different vitamins and antioxydants were in

 

[Winnie53]

Freema, that's a good question. The entire study can be downloaded in PDF format. If they didn't include that information, there's the option of contacting the study's authors. If you look at my post from a few days ago on this thread, I refer to nutritional supplement formulation developed by a hand surgeon. Perhaps the dosages used in that formulation will give you a starting point. I also encourage you to read the entire neuropathy thread that I linked to. A number of forum members here posted helpful, encouraging information on how they reduced their neuropathy with specific nutrients.

 

[Roytaylorjasonfunglover]

When I try to play the video, it gives a playback error?

Does it work now?