Fatty Liver

[George_Henderson]

Hi @Annb,
I know one person with cirrhosis used a very low carb diet to clear ascites, he improved his liver function and is sttill going strong. People with cirrhosis can live long lives if they stop damaging liver; it seems that high PUFA oils (any cooking or salad oil except extra virgin olive oil, any margarine spread, mayo, etc) are probably the worst thing for it, sugar and flour are bad too. But if you are on diabetes UK forum you know that already!
I would recommend probiotics, "bad" gut bacteria seem to be a major driver of inflammatory liver diseases; zinc gluconate supplements are helpful (especially if you get cramps); and use some coconut oil in a meal every day.

 

[spendercat]

I have been making my own kefir, with goats milk for a couple of years now. I can't recommend it highly enough. I am sure the probiotics in it really help to improve gut flora. The difference in the efficiency of your gut is astonishing.
Obviously we need to limit carbohydrates, but I am convinced that a healthy set of gut flora is also an excellent protection against complications.
I wish I had known what I know now at 30, and I wish I could convince my adult children of the importance of their gut biome, and its healing potential.

 

[NoCrbs4Me]

I'm extremely skeptical of the gut biome theory.

 

[George_Henderson]

I'm extremely skeptical of the gut biome theory.

Kirpich has studied this, it's part of his saturated fat and liver research. Regardless of biome theory itself, and effect on weight and so on, which is controversial, the effect on liver has been demonstrated in many experiments, including humans taking probiotics and lowering liver enzymes.
Fatty liver, whether from diet, virus, or alcohol, sensitizes liver to PAMPs from gram-negative bacteria. These are the same molecular signals that are responsible for sepsis. This exposure then promotes inflammation, leading to scarring and necrosis.
The liver is downstream from the gut and is first port of call for everything you digest, including the parts of bacteria that die in the gut. These parts include the PAMPs. And of course a leaky gut lets more PAMPs through. The equivalent of PAMPs from probiotic bacteria are anti-inflammatory, and probiotic bacteria suppress gram -ve and increase gut integrity, letting fewer PAMPs through to liver.

 

[spendercat]

I guess that if you are of the mindset that rejects current medical advice (to eat a high carb low fat diet and take drugs to normalise your blood glucose), then you are also the sort of person that believes the human body has capabilities that medical science is ignoring or denying.
A lot of research is being done, particularly in Australia, that supports the theory that our biotic gut population affects our health.
I recommend "Gut" by Giulia Enders

 

[lindisfel]

Please, Why does low carb high fat and subsequent weight loss improve fatty liver without probiotics? Derek

 

[lindisfel]

Hi, I see Dr. Kirpich has also tried diets for diabetics and obesity involving 40%carb and the rest protein and unsaturated (in the main) fats. It is not surprising they lost weight since the bda and the American dietetic association recommend a barmy 60% carbs! Her patients would have lost more if she had tried a really low carb high good fats diet which many of us have test proved already. BTW Does anyone know which probitics improve the gut biome or whatever it's called? thanks regards D.

 

[NoCrbs4Me]

Please, Why does low carb high fat and subsequent weight loss improve fatty liver without probiotics? Derek

I assume this was a rhetorical question, but the answer is that LCHF works to reverse NAFLD because carbs cause NAFLD, not fat or gut biome.

 

[lindisfel]

Hi nocarbs, I asked both questions because I have an open mind and hoped an answer would be forthcoming. If I could find out which probiotics were recommended I would try them for a month or two with milk thistle because getting down to a bmi of 22 has not cured my high GGT. I read up on the doctor who did this study and she was still testing patients with relatively high carb low fat diets.
regards Derek

 

[NoCrbs4Me]

Well, I don't know if probiotics will help with your liver, but I got rid of my self-diagnosed NAFLD without probiotics. I just ate very little carbs and lots of animal fat.

 

[Freema]

I am not overweight, only weigh 13 stone (exact) and yet been told by the Liver Specialist to lose 1 stone, follow a low Fat Diet.
I began 5 days ago taking Milk Thistle tablets because I read about another forum member taking Milk Thistle for 6 months and when he had his check up with the Liver Specialist his Fatty Liver had gone.

I have also bought milk thisle capsuels actually before I knew I was diabetic.... soon I´ll take them too , after nect blood test for HbA1c and after i know if my triglycerides have gone up from the high fat diet I do now

 

[Liam1955]

@Freema - Hi . What dosage are your Milk Thistle tablets? I had my Diabetic Review only a few days ago and my HBA1C is 59 and my Cholesterol is 3.2. I did however do a cross check with all the other medication that I take - just to be on the safe side, and all are OK with taking Milk Thistle.
Been taking it now about 3 weeks.

 

[Freema]

@Freema - Hi . What dosage are your Milk Thistle tablets? I had my Diabetic Review only a few days ago and my HBA1C is 59 and my Cholesterol is 3.2. I did however do a cross check with all the other medication that I take - just to be on the safe side, and all are OK with taking Milk Thistle.
Been taking it now about 3 weeks.

thanks for that information
my milk thistle capsuels are 1-3 capsuels 3 times a day each capsuel contains 400mg powder from milk thistle seeds

so maybe not easy to compare with yours as it is not a stadardized unit...?

it would look like I would take almost 8-16 times the amount you would take... it looks a bit crazy... maybe because their is no regulation on these herbs and standadization.... now I dare only take 1 capsuel a day when starting.... untill I know more of it...

 

[daisyduck]

I can only speak from my own experience. After a lifetime of yo-yo dieting (low calorie and low fat) I was diagnosed with Metabolic Syndrome .. which includes type 2 diabetes and non alcoholic fatty liver. My liver readings were off the scale at 185 (not sure what this is, I just remembered the number) A normal liver should read 35 on that scale.
For the last 2 years I have faithfully followed the LCHF diet, and thoroughly enjoyed it. I lost 2 stones and on my last visit to the liver clinic at the hospital, I was told... Your liver has been consistently normal for a year now so I'm discharging you from this clinic

 

[lindisfel]

Yes a majority do but not everyone gets the same result and different action may also be necessary. regards D.

Well, I don't know if probiotics will help with your liver, but I got rid of my self-diagnosed NAFLD without probiotics. I just ate very little carbs and lots of animal fat.

 

[lindisfel]

Hi Freema, Don't worry everyone I know who goes low carb high fat gets lower trigs and higher HDL.
regards
Derek

I have also bought milk thisle capsuels actually before I knew I was diabetic.... soon I´ll take them too , after nect blood test for HbA1c and after i know if my triglycerides have gone up from the high fat diet I do now

 

[Freema]

Hi Freema, Don't worry everyone I know who goes low carb high fat gets lower trigs and higher HDL.
regards
Derek

well I have already lowered my triglycerides from going low calories higher proteins and lower carbs , but since last blood samle I have changed to low carb higher fat... and am looking forward to see the results in my bloods... but to know what is going on I will not change everything overnight but step by step, thank you for your kind message ... glad to be comforted

 

[Freema]

I can only speak from my own experience. After a lifetime of yo-yo dieting I was diagnosed with Metabolic Syndrome .. which includes type 2 diabetes and non alcoholic fatty liver. My liver readings were off the scale at 185 (not sure what this is, I just remembered the number) A normal liver should read 35 on that scale.
For the last 2 years I have faithfully followed the LCHF diet, and thoroughly enjoyed it. I lost 2 stones and on my last visit to the liver clinic at the hospital, I was told... Your liver has been consistently normal for a year now so I'm discharging you from this clinic

wow congratulations

 

[NoCrbs4Me]

Well, there's me on daily kefir and desi dahi yoghurt and then there is the evil sick me without. It's near Halloween, so you might want to choose the latter, but then you would be very crazy and very brave.

Just saying...

Well, I don't take any probiotics and my diet is very, very low in fibre and I've never been healthier.

 

[ickihun]

well I have already lowered my triglycerides from going low calories higher proteins and lower carbs , but since last blood samle I have changed to low carb higher fat... and am looking forward to see the results in my bloods... but to know what is going on I will not change everything overnight but step by step, thank you for your kind message ... glad to be comforted

My blood results were excellent but due to disappointment at not losing weight I became disheartened. I wanted weight loss more than anything.