There is a cure.. how come nobody does this?

[Djstevesire]

As I said. There is some success but it doesn't work for everyone. It worked for me and I am really happy about it. In fact I embarked on my journey a before these papers came to light. One of the things that the body does when it is in a starvation mode is that it goes into a cell repair mode instead of a cell replacement mode. It is harder but more energy efficient. My hypothersis is that it is this cell repair that provides the added extra over and above the removal of the visceral fat that causes the reversal for some.

I totally agree.. what your speaking of is called (autophagy). .. it then process where your body repairs or consumes damaged cells..

you do not have to be in "starvation" mode for this to occur.. you just need to be fasted for approximately 8-12 hours...

Side point (STARVATION MODE) does not occur until all the fat stores have been used up... this is very rare occurrence.

Think about it. Fat is stored calories to be used when there is no food source. Only when the fat is completely burned off does the body turn to burn muscle.
And I can say that none of us low enough body fat for that to occur.

However the body does need amino acids to use in the conversion from fat to glucose in a process called GLUCOGENESis..

That's why it's advisable to supplement your fast with amino acids.. so the body won't use the ones from your muscles.


I have a Strong belief that autophagy combined with the visceral fat loss is what's causing the reversal of type2 diabetes...

you can fast (NO FOOD) just water and amino acids. I believe it will produce faster results...as your essentially just living off stored fat...

What do you think?

 

[Enclave]

You can also apply this technique and rid yourself of this disease...

I do have a small problem with this statement that you used .. If you take the time to read around the forums here, you will find lots of members (T2) that have knocked their T2 in to remission .. also lots that are struggling and no amount of diet changes are helping, so are grateful for the medication. We are all individual .. Its hard enough being told your T2 without someone will little first hand experience of living with it saying what will 'cure' us.

 

[Djstevesire]

What you are missing is that those participants all had T2 for less than 5 years. As you have it longer your pancreas takes more damage and therefore you end up in a state where even with removal of the visceral fat they are unable to produce enough of their own insulin. Please be mindful that not everyone is at an early stage where these processes will achieve complete results let along maintain them

I understand that. However where you aware of autophagy? The process where your body rebuilds damaged portions?

It only occurs through fasting..not through low calorie dieting..

I'm trying to share new informations...
And possibly shed some light that may help people

Also just because the research was done with people who where diabetic less then 5 years.. what does that mean?

Did they do a test with people that had diabetes LONGER then 5 years? If not then I don't understand your point?
There isn't any information stating at what point is the pancreas to damaged for this to work.

Also it may not even be damaged.. it may just be the level of fat. That was the conclusion of the research... it never spoke of specific damage.

I don't see how any of this discussion would hurt somebody emotionally.

It's a discussion of facts and possible solutions..

If you are hurt by trying to find a cure I don't know what to say.. I'm not sorry cause I'm not doing anything hurtful.
I'm just trying to help with information.

 

[andcol]

I have a Strong belief that autophagy combined with the visceral fat loss is what's causing the reversal of type2 diabetes...

you can fast (NO FOOD) just water and amino acids. I believe it will produce faster results...as your essentially just living off stored fat...

I am positive this is what worked for me. I also read an article from an eminent cancer specialist who stated that he recommends everyone fast for one week a year when he is asked how to avoid cancer

 

[Djstevesire]

I do have a small problem with this statement that you used .. If you take the time to read around the forums here, you will find lots of members (T2) that have knocked their T2 in to remission .. also lots that are struggling and no amount of diet changes are helping, so are grateful for the medication. We are all individual .. Its hard enough being told your T2 without someone will little first hand experience of living with it saying what will 'cure' us.

Forget about what they tried that didn't work... that's the problem right there..
Did they try this method?
Obviously trying soemthin else and failing shows it didn't work...

This has been proven to work in every person that has done it...

I also provided some twists that may make it work even better..

your more concerned about the people it won't help rather then the people it will..
That makes absolutely NO SENSE..

And the people your referring to most likely

1.didnt use this method
2.didnt reach the point where they burned enough visceral fat...

Every subject in the study reduced...
the ones that weren't successful in 8 weeks may need to do it longer then 8 weeks...

It doesn't take a scientist to see that..

 

[andcol]

Did they do a test with people that had diabetes LONGER then 5 years? If not then I don't understand your point?
There isn't any information stating at what point is the pancreas to damaged for this to work.

The point is that the research explicitely looked for people that had T2 for less than years so that there was minimal damage to the pancreas. He is doing further larger scale tests to see if the results scale. I hope they will but lets see. It may be that it just takes longer and the short 8 weeks isn't long enough but we do not yet know. We need to keep an open mind as the body is not only complex but rather chaotic in its response across the population

 

[Djstevesire]

It is not clear to me what the definition of 'cured' 'reversed' or 'remission' is in relation to T2D. While my HBA1c has dropped into the mid 40's and my FBG hovers somewhere in the 6's as opposed to 96 and mid teens respectively a year ago, I am not sure that I am, or indeed am headed for any of those categories. If I eat a small portion of jam steam pud and custard my BG's rocket into the mid teens and stay there for over an hour. Is that the same Insulin response as a non-diabetic? I doubt it somehow.
Many people on here have developed different techniques to control their condition to their satisfaction, we are all different, and the 'my diet is better than yours' is irrelevant IMHO

This isn't about anyone's diet being better this is about identifying a cure..

The definition of cured or reversed means you no longer have symptoms of t2d because your body is working correctly

While we all
May be different .. we all got here the same way...

Overeating ... mostly fructose and simple sugars. Paired with a lack of exercise.

 

[Djstevesire]

The point is that the research explicitely looked for people that had T2 for less than years so that there was minimal damage to the pancreas. He is doing further larger scale tests to see if the results scale. I hope they will but lets see. It may be that it just takes longer and the short 8 weeks isn't long enough but we do not yet know. We need to keep an open mind as the body is not only complex but rather chaotic in its response across the population

Fair enough.. I agree with this..
But that doesn't mean it won't work..
It's very promising.. that's why I also made the point of doing a complete fast..
That triggers the body to repair itself through autophagy..
the human body is very complex and knows how to heal itself given the right triggers...

What a lot of people consider food these days is actually poison... look at the ingredients of any process food..it's not food it's a chemical soup..

I believe full abstinence is key.. I wish I had a way to talk to soemthing of these researchers

 

[Brunneria]

The definition of cured or reversed means you no longer have symptoms of t2d because your body is working correctly

Nope. It that simplistic definition was accurate then my T2 would be reversed. And it isn't.

While we all
May be different .. we all got here the same way...

Overeating ... mostly fructose and simple sugars. Paired with a lack of exercise.

No we didn't.
You obviously don't have the extensive knowledge of the subject that you claim.

If you are speaking from personal experience, feel free to say so, but please don't presume to speak from my experience too.

 

[Mbaker]

I totally agree.. what your speaking of is called (autophagy). .. it then process where your body repairs or consumes damaged cells..

you do not have to be in "starvation" mode for this to occur.. you just need to be fasted for approximately 8-12 hours...

Side point (STARVATION MODE) does not occur until all the fat stores have been used up... this is very rare occurrence.

Think about it. Fat is stored calories to be used when there is no food source. Only when the fat is completely burned off does the body turn to burn muscle.
And I can say that none of us low enough body fat for that to occur.

However the body does need amino acids to use in the conversion from fat to glucose in a process called GLUCOGENESis..

That's why it's advisable to supplement your fast with amino acids.. so the body won't use the ones from your muscles.


I have a Strong belief that autophagy combined with the visceral fat loss is what's causing the reversal of type2 diabetes...

you can fast (NO FOOD) just water and amino acids. I believe it will produce faster results...as your essentially just living off stored fat...

What do you think?

I do have a differing view about the level at which muscle is being burned with 2 examples the first example was a black gentleman who was on Chris Powell's show Obese a Year to save my life; they specifically referred after testing his body composition to the position that he was burning muscle due to too much cardio and not enough weights. The second example is myself, I was as well over doing the cardio or not getting the balance right with the weights. I began to look gaunt and my wife adjusted my program as she said I was burning muscle. I could see my physique was different and my wife was previously a personal trainer, now has a physio degree (specialism is right on track being muscular skeletal) as well as having a sports science degree.

 

[Djstevesire]

The study used people from over weight to very severely obese.

"stable BMI 25–45 kg/m2"

The study completed with 11 after 4 dropped out.

The follow up was for 10 people:

"One individual was unavailable for retesting, having had surgery for an ovarian cyst (non-malignant)."

"Three participants had recurrence of diabetes as judged by a 2 h post-load plasma glucose >11.1 mmol/l."

So 3 out of 10 participants were not "cured" by this trial.
They were still diabetic.

This does seem to tie in with the buzz number that 80% of T2 diabetics are overweight or obese on diagnosis. Only very general conclusions can be drawn from such a small sample size.

There is a very strong suggestion from this study that if a Newcastle-style diet was applied to all T2 diabetics on diagnosis then a temporary reversal might be achieved in up to 70% of those who were over weight or obese.

Noting the extremely small sample size and the lack of roughly 20% of the T2 diabetic population in the study this suggests (as with most research) that it would be a good idea to try this on a much larger scale.

A pessimistic view on the general T2 population on diagnosis (using 12 people to make the numbers simple):

2 not included in this study
3 not "cured"
7 "cured" (at least in the short term)

That is a 7/12 win and a 5/12 lose.

So this is not a cure all for everyone. It does hold out hope for the majority.

Now the main question posed:

"Why are people not doing this and choosing instead to live a life with diabetes?"

Let us consider first that all the participants were over weight or worse. To adopt this diet is very hard. To continue afterwards is even harder; you might stick out an eight week low calorie diet but how many can countenance a server calorie restriction (compared to their original eating style) for the rest of their lives?

People eat too much, people drink too much, people still smoke.
Everyone "knows" that it is bad for you but people still do it.

So how, exactly are you going to make several million people change the eating habits of a lifetime and give up what for many is their main pleasure?

You would have to isolate them from all sources of food except those you supply and keep them isolated for long enough to kick their food addiction then hope they won't just go back to their old ways.

In the mean time someone has to pay for this plus the accommodation and policing and someone has to do the work of all these people whilst they are banged up inside.

TL;DR - this information should be widely available and supported by the NHS. Don't expect a massive impact over the next 10 years if it is.

Edit: Oh, nearly forgot. If you think you are cured follow the line the research took. Take a fasting plasma glucose test and if your results are normal then you are effectively non-diabetic again. For the moment. After all, you did develop T2 diabetes, didn't you?

ALL of the subjects where NON diabetic after the study...

My belief isn't that the 2 that became diabetic again where obviously eating the same way that made them diabetic in the first place..

So this is essentially a cure for t2d

And you just reinforced what I said..
They CHOOSE to continue eating/smoking.. it's clearly a choice..

why would somebody need to be hidden from the food. That makes NO sense..
they have to make a choice on how they want to live there life..

The problem I'm addressing is that this information is NOT MADE PUBLIC..

Doctors would rather treat the symptoms then to make you aware of the cure!

I personally will be fine.. as I'm into bodybuilding and fasting..and have been eating healthy for years until I got injured and began eating really bad and laying in bed most of the day and rapidly became obese.

But now that I'm back in my feet and can use my hands again there is no excuse..

TBH the only NO excuses in life are the ones you make up..

 

[Djstevesire]

I do have a differing view about the level at which muscle is being burned with 2 examples the first example was a black gentleman who was on Chris Powell's show Obese a Year to save my life; they specifically referred after testing his body composition to the position that he was burning muscle due to too much cardio and not enough weights. The second example is myself, I was as well over doing the cardio or not getting the balance right with the weights. I began to look gaunt and my wife adjusted my program as she said I was burning muscle. I could see my physique was different and my wife was previously a personal trainer, now has a physio degree (specialism is right on track being muscular skeletal) as well as having a sports science degree.

I agree
I don't do cardio for that very reason.

I just lift weights and when I have to trim down I fast and WALK.. roughly 10k steps a day

The example I gave is what works with fasting protocol..

Cardio is NOT recommended when Fasting... if interested check out LeanGains..

 

[Djstevesire]

Nope. It that simplistic definition was accurate then my T2 would be reversed. And it isn't.



No we didn't.
You obviously don't have the extensive knowledge of the subject that you claim.

If you are speaking from personal experience, feel free to say so, but please don't presume to speak from my experience too.

How did you acquire your t2d
And do you try this method?

 

[Jamesuk9]

Well @Djstevesire I currently have BMI of 20, I'm not overweight, I don't eat badly and I exercise daily. Yet I have pre diabetic glucose responses... As I don't fit anyone for your stereotypical assumptions about greed and laziness, what do you suggest for me because I'm all ears?

 

[zand]

Why would it be hurtful? If you attempted to fix your computer and it didn't work after your repair... would it be hurtful to say that you did it incorrectly?
While giving you the instructions on how to fix it?

This is the exact behavior I'm speaking of. Don't sit around feeling sorry for yourself.. get motivated and fix it..

I know how I got this way.. I was overeating lots of garbage and I wasn't exercising and also smoking..I accept full responsibility.. and now I will take full responsibility to fix it... even if it means going without food...(water fasting)

I am now considered obese and I have prediabetic blood sugar... before going to the doctor I went and did some research that I will be applying ...

You can also apply this technique and rid yourself of this disease...

I'm not talking down to anyone.. I'm sharing a method that I have 100 percent faith in. And I'm in the same boat as everyone else..

so now I will ask.. have you tried this method? It clearly works...
And if it didn't .. that means you need to donit either
1.correctly
2.for a longer duration

This is just reality..

I wasn't overeating on junk or smoking. I have water fasted before.

Sit around feeling sorry for myself?!! I am currently seeking advice from a naturopath and have given up grain products and cow's dairy products. I have followed LCHF for 5 years. My HbA1c's are in the non diabetic range, but I am not cured, merely controlled. I do Intermittent Fasting ( 16:8) I used to walk a brisk 2 miles (at least) daily, but my adrenal glands were damaged through severe stress as a toddler and young child and my Naturopath has told me to only do gentle exercise as anything more than that causes me to gain weight rather than lose it. I have lost well over 2 stones (on LCHF) but my weight has stuck for a long time now. I stuck to 600 cals for 7 weeks (I stopped because of severe joint pains).

These 800 calorie diets aren't new - I did them years ago, and they are part of the reason I became obese - cutting calories simply slows down the metabolism. The few people who have truly reversed T2 on this forum have freely admitted that they used to consume alot of calories before they became T2. That's not the same for all of us, so the Newcastle Diet won't work for everyone. I asked my GP for some Optifast as it's only available on prescription in this country. He refused even though I would have gladly paid. To my mind using any other meal replacement shake isn't sticking to the diet. The Tesco's shakes didn't help me lose weight 20 or so years ago and I don't believe they would help me now.

 

[satindoll]

This isn't about anyone's diet being better this is about identifying a cure..

The definition of cured or reversed means you no longer have symptoms of t2d because your body is working correctly

While we all
May be different .. we all got here the same way...

Overeating ... mostly fructose and simple sugars. Paired with a lack of exercise.

Your Arrogance on this subject is only surpassed by your Ignorance of it.

 

[douglas99]

My eating preferences and taste has changed .. so no I don't eat what I used to .. not because I am avoiding it.. but because I not longer like it. Used to love pasta .. cannot stand the stuff now .. but I don't count carbs now and I do eat what I want to. At Christmas it was boxes of chocolates, lots of roast potatoes, parsnips, Christmas pudding & custard (full sugar) I now eat rolls or sandwiches for lunch .. in-fact whatever I fancy I eat ... I have not put my weight back on either.

Yes, my 'diet' doesn't control my diabetes.
I control my obesity.
A lot of things follow on from that.

I was in Screwfix today, lunch was a free ring donut and a coffee.
In the past, it would have been a ring donut, a jam donut, and some biscuits to go.
As you say, tastes change, I didn't really enjoy the donut, but it was free, and saved shopping elsewhere.

But in spite of all the carbs, my stomach is re-trained, I don't want a snack now, like I would have done, I'll last to dinner tonight. I don't eat simply to eat anymore.
Maybe my stomach has shrunk.

As to the results from the donut, a very pleasant 5.0 on the meter, 90 minutes later.
I wouldn't normally test, but it seemed relevant today.

 

[Djstevesire]

I do have a differing view about the level at which muscle is being burned with 2 examples the first example was a black gentleman who was on Chris Powell's show Obese a Year to save my life; they specifically referred after testing his body composition to the position that he was burning muscle due to too much cardio and not enough weights. The second example is myself, I was as well over doing the cardio or not getting the balance right with the weights. I began to look gaunt and my wife adjusted my program as she said I was burning muscle. I could see my physique was different and my wife was previously a personal trainer, now has a physio degree (specialism is right on track being muscular skeletal) as well as having a sports science degree.

You should have used bcaas as I recommended.. ask your wife.. she'll tell you..

When the body starts burning your fat stores bcaas are required to make the conversion... if you don't supply them then th body takes them from your muscles.. also a lot has changed in the last 5 years concerning exercise science..

I've completed 2 body transformations.
From underweight to muscular.
Then I got bodybuilder muscular.
Now I'm fat with muscles... I've been studying bodybuilding for the better part of 20 years..

 

[Djstevesire]

Well @Djstevesire I currently have BMI of 20, I'm not overweight, I don't eat badly and I exercise daily. Yet I have pre diabetic glucose responses... As I don't fit anyone for your stereotypical assumptions about greed and laziness, what do you suggest for me because I'm all ears?

 

[Djstevesire]

i have a bmi of 27.3 in this photo .. it's a horrible way to measure ones self.. you should go by bodyfat percentage...

People store fat diffeeently ... it may just be that you store more viseral
Fat