Fat - is it really bad/good?

[ghost_whistler]

Just out of interest @ghost_whistler how are you feeling, and how are your blood glucose levels on this new keto way of eating?

Most people get 'carb flu' in the first few days, if they are going to get it at all. So you may have whizzed through that phase without experiencing anything flu-like.

Re Atkins, all the different phases of the Atkins Induction through to maintenance allow for vegetables (and therefore carbs) and the intention is to go low, then slowly increase carbs to the personal tolerance level for weight loss, then later to increase again to the personal tolerance for weight maintenance.

Unfortunately, none of us know what our personal tolerance is, until we have tried it. I am always very envious of people who do well on 80g carbs a day (or more). From what I have seen in posts on the forum, people seem to fall into different 'bands'. Some do well at 100-130g or more, others flourish at around 80g, a minority need the 30-60g band. Others need lower. It all depends on our bodies, and the food choices we make, after all, 20g carbs from leafy green veg is very different from 20g from thick white toasted.

I haven't felt badly. I haven't felt the compulsion to snack as much, nor any symptoms of hypo so i haven't tested since last week and the readings then were fine.

I'm not brimming with energy like the keto people claim, and I still need to eat morning lunch and dinner, and usually a little something for supper. I don't feel fatigued. I'm not in that state though, not as far as I can tell going by what advocates say. Who knows though? I'm not buying testing kits. I haven't lost any weight at all though.

I'm curious about Atkins because there must be a reason why he doesn't recommend remaining in ketosis. I do get the impressoin that ultimately the body isn't meant to stay in it permanently. Otherwise wouldn't we have been built that way? Even taking into account how warped our current diet and food models are. Certainly it makes travelling around a bit harder since you have to plan ahead. THere's no way you could sustain low carb otherwise.

 

[Mr_Pot]

That would still be seen as low, surely? Have you eaten that way for a long time, may I ask?

I will answer your question but as I am T2D which apparently you are not, my diet may not be appropriate for you. As I said it is not extreme and unlikely to do you any harm. @Pinkorchid 's advice above seems very sensible to me.

Compared with a reduced carb diet of say 150gms or a very low carb diet of say 20grams then I regard my 80gms as moderately low. I have been keeping to this diet since diagnosed in September 2015. I didn't set out with any particular figure in mind but just gave up the obvious carbs like bread, potatoes, rice, pasta and anything sweet like cakes, biscuits, deserts. When I settled into a routine I did some calculations for typical days and it came to about 80gms. To get back to the title of your thread, I do not purposely eat fat but as a consequence of less carbs my consumption of fat has increased so that I don't feel hungry. I do purposely eat more vegetables. I don't find the diet difficult in terms of will power but it takes a bit of effort logistically. I intend to keep to this diet for the rest of my life, 20 years if I am lucky, so it needs to be sustainable.

 

[ghost_whistler]

I will answer your question but as I am T2D which apparently you are not, my diet may not be appropriate for you. As I said it is not extreme and unlikely to do you any harm. @Pinkorchid 's advice above seems very sensible to me.

Compared with a reduced carb diet of say 150gms or a very low carb diet of say 20grams then I regard my 80gms as moderately low. I have been keeping to this diet since diagnosed in September 2015. I didn't set out with any particular figure in mind but just gave up the obvious carbs like bread, potatoes, rice, pasta and anything sweet like cakes, biscuits, deserts. When I settled into a routine I did some calculations for typical days and it came to about 80gms. To get back to the title of your thread, I do not purposely eat fat but as a consequence of less carbs my consumption of fat has increased so that I don't feel hungry. I do purposely eat more vegetables. I don't find the diet difficult in terms of will power but it takes a bit of effort logistically. I intend to keep to this diet for the rest of my life, 20 years if I am lucky, so it needs to be sustainable.

Were you given this diet by a specialist?

 

[Lamont D]

Were you given this diet by a specialist?

Yes, even though he doesn't advocate my ketogenic diet for those with T2!
It's all about tolerance to carbs and how they effect your blood glucose levels!

 

[Mr_Pot]

Were you given this diet by a specialist?

When I was diagnosed the diabetic nurse organized an appointment with a dietitian. She studied my food diary which was not much different from the NHS Eatwell Plate and decided I just needed to adjust my overall portion size. Reading on this forum and elsewhere about the benefit to diabetics of a low carb diet the simple logic of " Carbs become glucose so eat less carbs" seemed appealing. I was convinced when after 6 months my Hb1Ac had dropped from 53 to 38 and my weight dropped from 14st to 11st 7lb. My total cholesterol has increased to 5 from 4.3 but the ratio has improved so my GP said he was quite happy for me to continue with my low carb diet as it seemed to be working. Over the course of a year the DN has become a convert to low carb but she did say that for a lot of her patients if they could even cut their eating to the Eatwell Plate that would be a big improvement.

 

[ghost_whistler]

QUOTE]
Just do what you are doing as above lowering the starchy carbs and sugar if you feel you need to do anything at all at this point you do not need to do any more than that while you do not have a diagnosis because chances are you have not got anything wrong with you at all. Your symptoms could just be caused by stress which you seem to have a lot of even getting rather paranoid. You have already been told you do not have diabetes so that's good most people would be happy with that. The more you read on the internet the more conflicting views and opinions you will see to confuse you and make you even more stressed

Is there evidence that stress can cause hypoglycemia/blood sugar lows?

I tried looking for this, as it sounds quite plausible, but found nothing.

 

[Brunneria]

Is there evidence that stress can cause hypoglycemia/blood sugar lows?

I tried looking for this, as it sounds quite plausible, but found nothing.

I don't know about evidence, but it is certainly my personal experience. Another cause is shock. It is because of the stress hormones, which can send your blood glucose up, via a liver dump (glucose release from storage in the liver, to give you the energy to deal with the current crisis). However, I find that can cause a hypo later, when that glucose runs out.

There are some very complicated relationships between insulin, cortisol (and other hormones), stress, tiredness, exercise and things like sleep deprivation. Depending on our individual endocrine system, and the nature of the stress, etc. we all have different reactions.

 

[ghost_whistler]

I don't know about evidence, but it is certainly my personal experience. Another cause is shock. It is because of the stress hormones, which can send your blood glucose up, via a liver dump (glucose release from storage in the liver, to give you the energy to deal with the current crisis). However, I find that can cause a hypo later, when that glucose runs out.

There are some very complicated relationships between insulin, cortisol (and other hormones), stress, tiredness, exercise and things like sleep deprivation. Depending on our individual endocrine system, and the nature of the stress, etc. we all have different reactions.

What is your experience of being in ketosis?

 

[Resurgam]

If you stay in ketosis then you are, by definition, burning fat all the time - you would become thinner and thinner.
In ketosis my body is very wasteful of energy, keeping me warm all the time - it is why I can eat so many more calories and lose weight, when if the calories were from carbs I would not.

 

[Brunneria]

What is your experience of being in ketosis?

You have to understand that i have been low carbing for decades, and in and out of ketosis for most of that time. And for the last few years (4?) i have been permanently fat adapted, averaging well under 50g carbs a day, and in ketosis or dual-fuelling consistently.

So all that means that i can't really remember what it was like in the early days. Nor will my experiences help much - because it changes a lot over time. True keto adaptation can take months.

So I guess the best I can say is that without fat adaptation/ketosis i ache a lot, get hungry a lot, sleep worse, crave carbs, and get reactive hypos and feel tired a lot of the time. When i am in ketosis, all that disappears (although i still ache a bit). I guess that what i feel in ketosis, is normal.

I mean, most people sleep OK, don't have endless persistent joint aches, manage not to obsess endlessly about their next carb fix and live without fear of hypos, dont they? That is normal. And they eat carbs.

It just turns out that my body behaves normally in ketosis rather than when glucose burning.

 

[Lamont D]

What is your experience of being in ketosis?

My experience of being continually in ketosis is that I can be healthy and be normal as a person who hasn't got a metabolic condition!

I have my life back!

 

[ghost_whistler]

This is really weird. If i eat sausage and bacon and kale and avocado for breakfast I can feel really full. But i've been switching it up so as to give that much meat a break: i tried replacing it with two poached eggs and two slices of tofu, or the tofu with just the bacon, and i'm getting hungry again. Why could this be?

Also 12 days in and I've not lost any weight at all, nor do i feel i'm in a different metabolic state

 

[jonbvn]

Even taking into account how warped our current diet and food models are. Certainly it makes travelling around a bit harder since you have to plan ahead. THere's no way you could sustain low carb otherwise.

From my personal perspective, I would disagree with you on this point. I work as an expat in the Middle East and I have no problem whatsoever sustaining my low carb lifestyle.

 

[ME_Valentijn]

This is really weird. If i eat sausage and bacon and kale and avocado for breakfast I can feel really full. But i've been switching it up so as to give that much meat a break: i tried replacing it with two poached eggs and two slices of tofu, or the tofu with just the bacon, and i'm getting hungry again. Why could this be?

Eggs and tofu have a lot less fat than sausage and bacon. So you're probably getting less calories, and less of the fullness that you get from fat.

 

[ghost_whistler]

Eggs and tofu have a lot less fat than sausage and bacon. So you're probably getting less calories, and less of the fullness that you get from fat.

I've got plenty of fat, I don't think you're necessarily meant to eat the fat limit each day. All you do then is pile on calories yo have to burn later

 

[Lamont D]

I've got plenty of fat, I don't think you're necessarily meant to eat the fat limit each day. All you do then is pile on calories yo have to burn later

Not necessarily true!

When eating low carb for a while and started to lose weight, I found the amount of calories didn't really matter! Regardless of how many calories, it was the lack of carbs that mattered in how I metabolized food!
Everyone has a different fat threshold, so how do you know you are not getting enough fat to satiate you?

 

[ghost_whistler]

From my personal perspective, I would disagree with you on this point. I work as an expat in the Middle East and I have no problem whatsoever sustaining my low carb lifestyle.

Fair rnough, but for me, I'd rather eat a bit less meat but it's a little tough finding something for lunch other than more meat.

 

[ghost_whistler]

Not necessarily true!

When eating low carb for a while and started to lose weight, I found the amount of calories didn't really matter! Regardless of how many calories, it was the lack of carbs that mattered in how I metabolized food!
Everyone has a different fat threshold, so how do you know you are not getting enough fat to satiate you?

Well i make sure my meal fills me. Not sure what else I can do. I would struggle to add more fat to these meals, i have to say. I've no desire to force myself

 

[Lamont D]

Well i make sure my meal fills me. Not sure what else I can do. I would struggle to add more fat to these meals, i have to say. I've no desire to force myself

There is a difference between filling yourself and feeling satiated!

You must take into account of your symptoms.
Always feeling hunger, that doesn't help!

You should only eat enough to give you enough nourishment to get you through the day! You will get used to eating less and feeling you have had enough (satiated!)
If you keep overeating, no matter how low carb you are trying to eat or higher fat, you will not lose weight!
Have smaller meals by reducing your plate size. Force yourself not to eat until you feel really hungry at next meal time, if you are hungry, don't eat!

 

[ghost_whistler]

There is a difference between filling yourself and feeling satiated!

You must take into account of your symptoms.
Always feeling hunger, that doesn't help!

You should only eat enough to give you enough nourishment to get you through the day! You will get used to eating less and feeling you have had enough (satiated!)
If you keep overeating, no matter how low carb you are trying to eat or higher fat, you will not lose weight!
Have smaller meals by reducing your plate size. Force yourself not to eat until you feel really hungry at next meal time, if you are hungry, don't eat!

I don't think i am overeating