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Obesity: How Prejudiced is the NHS?

DavidGrahamJones said:
They stretch and break, I have a friend who had a band fitted.

Biliopancreatic diversion is able to lead to an average of 73% excessive weight loss after two years, while gastric bypass about 65%, sleeve gastrectomy 56%, and gastric banding 49%, according to the study “Biliopancreatic Diversion: The Effectiveness of Duodenal Switch and Its Limitations.”
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My first group session in May. The ball has started. I think bypass thou.
Never heard of Biliopancreatic Diversion.
 
Pipp said:
I feel it is important to give an alternative view of this....
Having participated in a medically supervised Newcastle diet, six years ago, (GP in consultation with the Newcastle /Taylor team) using a total food replacement method, Lipotrim in place of the unavailable Optifast, I was monitored for weightloss and ketosis, at least weekly. Sometimes twice a week. Had I not had ketones in the urine tested I would have had to stop the diet, as the supervising medics would have believed this meant I was cheating by consuming foods other than the prescribed meal replacement drinks. Although the meal replacements were high carb, it was the severe calorie restriction that caused the ketosis.
Ketosis is achievable with carbs as long as total calories consumed are very low.
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When I was diagnosed with blood sugars of 18 I was also in nutritional ketosis because of the low calories still too many carbs though !
 
The number of bariatric operations is around 6,000 a year, which is similar number to the the operations for diabetes limb amputations. They mentioned in the film that diabetes is costing the NHS about £8.8 billion a year and this will rise to over £15 billion in the future if current trends continue. Most type 2 diabetes patients are either overweight or obese.

It seems a tragedy when the woman went to the NHS for weight management and was put on the "eat well plate" diet which caused her to put on two stone of weight in two months. She knew that carbs caused her weight gain, but they still insisted that she eat carbs, leaving her in a worst state then when she joined the weight loss program. The failure of this weight management program meant that the patient was then forced to seek surgery.

From my own experience, when diagnosed with type 2 diabetes I had a BMI or nearly 34, which is obese. I had found it very hard to loose weight for many years. This time last year I had been trying to cut down on food, but lost no weight between January and April. I only started to lose weight when I was diagnosed type 2 last November and began the process of cutting back on carbs and fruit juice. I am now about 11 Kg lighter than this time last year. After watching some videos by Jason Fung on reversing type 2 diabetes, I have started to do 5:2 intermittent fasting and this has helped me maintain the momentum of loosing weight and lowing blood sugar levels. My BMI is now about 28 and I expect to get it down to 25 later this year.

There are going to be some people who are not helped by low carb and intermittent fasting and need surgery, but I suspect the majority of people will significantly benefit. The NHS urgently needs to learn what really is effective in managing weight and blood sugars and stop pushing the disastrous "eat well plate".
 
Art Of Flowers said:
The number of bariatric operations is around 6,000 a year, which is similar number to the the operations for diabetes limb amputations. They mentioned in the film that diabetes is costing the NHS about £8.8 billion a year and this will rise to over £15 billion in the future if current trends continue. Most type 2 diabetes patients are either overweight or obese.

It seems a tragedy when the woman went to the NHS for weight management and was put on the "eat well plate" diet which caused her to put on two stone of weight in two months. She knew that carbs caused her weight gain, but they still insisted that she eat carbs, leaving her in a worst state then when she joined the weight loss program. The failure of this weight management program meant that the patient was then forced to seek surgery.

From my own experience, when diagnosed with type 2 diabetes I had a BMI or nearly 34, which is obese. I had found it very hard to loose weight for many years. This time last year I had been trying to cut down on food, but lost no weight between January and April. I only started to lose weight when I was diagnosed type 2 last November and began the process of cutting back on carbs and fruit juice. I am now about 11 Kg lighter than this time last year. After watching some videos by Jason Fung on reversing type 2 diabetes, I have started to do 5:2 intermittent fasting and this has helped me maintain the momentum of loosing weight and lowing blood sugar levels. My BMI is now about 28 and I expect to get it down to 25 later this year.

There are going to be some people who are not helped by low carb and intermittent fasting and need surgery, but I suspect the majority of people will significantly benefit. The NHS urgently needs to learn what really is effective in managing weight and blood sugars and stop pushing the disastrous "eat well plate".
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The problem you'll have is the NHS diet works well for many people, despite it being heavily criticised by some.
I lost around 3 or 4 stone on it initially.
So I guess until it stops working for the majority, it'll still be a tool in diabetes management for weight loss.
 
douglas99 said:
The problem you'll have is the NHS diet works well for many people, despite it being heavily criticised by some.
I lost around 3 or 4 stone on it initially.
So I guess until it stops working for the majority, it'll still be a tool in diabetes management for weight loss.
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Where is your evidence that the NHS diet works well for the majority? If it did then there wouldn't be so many obese people where the NHS diet fails to have any effect and they then proceed to have bariatric surgery. Why is it the majority of posters on this forum find the NHS diet is not the right way forward and it needs lower carbs?
 
douglas99 said:
The problem you'll have is the NHS diet works well for many people, despite it being heavily criticised by some.
I lost around 3 or 4 stone on it initially.
So I guess until it stops working for the majority, it'll still be a tool in diabetes management for weight loss.
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That is a bit of a sweeping statement. How do you know it works for the majority? It worked for you because by your own admission you stuffed yourself on pies, donuts and worse. I'm sure you weren't the only one, but the majority?
 
Daibell said:
Where is your evidence that the NHS diet works well for the majority? If it did then there wouldn't be so many obese people where the NHS diet fails to have any effect and they then proceed to have bariatric surgery. Why is it the majority of posters on this forum find the NHS diet is not the right way forward and it needs lower carbs?
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You'll find the majority of posters on here are but a handful in the NHS system.
And, as you say, not even this forum is proof there is only one effective treatment, quite the opposite in fact, many varied solutions, and management seem to be available.
 
Bluetit1802 said:
That is a bit of a sweeping statement. How do you know it works for the majority? It worked for you because by your own admission you stuffed yourself on pies, donuts and worse. I'm sure you weren't the only one, but the majority?
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I'm sure there is a reasonably well proven cause and effect established between overeating and obesity.
I suspect many other obese patients on the NHS overate.
 
douglas99 said:
You'll find the majority of posters on here are but a handful in the NHS system.has proof that
An, as you say, not even this forum is proof there is only one effective treatment, quite the opposite in fact, many varied solutions, and management seem to be available.
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Agreed, but how many of our forum members are here because the eatwell plate made them worse so they arrive for some help. How many who never arrive here, but review on review have worse HbA1c results and more and more medication until eventually they have no choice but to inject insulin. Many of our newbies think they are eating a healthy balanced diet (The eatwell plate) and are shocked to find this is not so.
 
douglas99 said:
You'll find the majority of posters on here are but a handful in the NHS system.
And, as you say, not even this forum is proof there is only one effective treatment, quite the opposite in fact, many varied solutions, and management seem to be available.
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this thread is not saying there is only one effective treatment. This thread is saying that the NHS eatwell method is not working for many on here.
 
serenity648 said:
this thread is not saying there is only one effective treatment. This thread is saying that the NHS eatwell method is not working for many on here.
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Glad we've clarified that then.
As I say, it seems to have been successful for me though, and others I attended the various dietitians with over the year.
 
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douglas99 said:
Glad we've clarified that then.
As I say, it seems to have been successful for me though, and others I attended the various dietitians with over the year.
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then on another thread you posted:

"I tend to eat Mediterranean diet, I don't eat pasta, potatoes, or rice normally, purely as it's a stodgy filler, and I prefer more flavour in food now.
I never butter bread, (not that I eat much, it has to be an artisan bread I want to try) or add any butter to other food,
I cook with rice bran oil normally, but it ran out a few months ago, and i haven't got around to replacing it yet.
I tend to cook using a George Foreman grill, if I have any sausage or similar, and press any oil out as they cook.
I do have the odd bacon sandwich occasionally.
Grilled fish, or oven baked, and tinned fish either tinned in a sauce, or brine.
A lot of veg, and fruit.
Breakfast was a couple of Ryvita, topped with a slice of ham, and a slice of Edam between them.
But, I have to confess, lunch today was a couple of Melton Mowbray mini pork pies, that just called my name as I passed them!
Nothing inbetween."

You confuse me. On one thread you say you eat a Mediterranean diet, but no pasta, bread, rice, potatoes etc etc etc. On this thread you say there is nothing wrong with the eatwell plate and it worked for you. I give up trying to find consistency in your diet comments.
 
well the eat well plate I guess can be twisted like in a million ways.. even in some more healthy ways also for diabetics don´t you think ? and also depending of the lifestyle of the diabetic as well if it is a very sporty type doing lots of exercises then maybe it can be okay for some... then there could be a little space for som starchy foods anyhow... like potatoes... for instance.. and grains too...


here for example is a great recipe of multi grain chia fatbread that is not as heavy in carbs as most breads , and at the same time filled with fibres and oily seeds so maybe it could be part of the grain part of the eat well plate :
http://nyoutritious.com/chia-seed-crispbread-crackers/
http://www.saysissel.com/saysissel/danish-glutenfree-crisp-bread-recipe
 
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Squire Fulwood said:
NHS is prejudiced about everything if it gets them off the hook. If you are fat, lazy,smoke or have lifestyle they don't recommend then they would rather put the blame on you.

Their remit, however is to fix people.

When I take my car to the garage for repair the mechanic might say I have been driving it in a manner he does not approve of. Well, I pay the bill so fix it
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This so makes me laugh
1 you don't pay for the care you receive it's the NHS
2 If you are fat, lazy, smoke or have a lifestyle the NHS don't recommend you're **** right it's your fault!!
 
The NHS is free at point of care it is paid for from taxes, I have been paying tax all my working life.

If I were fat and I'm not there may be many reasons for it other than being lazy.
If I smoke it is my choice not my fault.
If I don't conform to the NHS's idea of the ideal life style again it is my choice not my faullt
 
JohnEGreen said:
The NHS is free at point of care it is paid for from taxes, I have been paying tax all my working life.

If I were fat and I'm not there may be many reasons for it other than being lazy.
If I smoke it is my choice not my fault.
If I don't conform to the NHS's idea of the ideal life style again it is my choice not my faullt
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Sure, there will always be exceptions, but the vast majority of obese people have the ability to do something about it.

On one hand, I can empathize a bit with what you're saying. However, at what point do you take responsibility for your actions and accept fault for the consequences (rather than place blame elsewhere)?

If I gain weight from eating too much that is a decision, that is a choice, and that is my fault. That's not to say I necessarily feel bad about it. It's to say that it is within my control just as much as losing that weight would be.

We don't need to be hurtful or mean to people who haven't always made the best decisions. I'm a firm believer in positive reenforcement, but I also believe that people need to take responsibility for their choices rather than place blame elsewhere or make excuses.
 
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