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Dr Bernstein and blood sugar levels.

  • Thread starter Thread starter serenity648
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I can't help but note all the preceding advice relates to YOUNG people. What about us oldies? Things wear out naturally, diabetes or not.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2080461/

I will stick to my personal target of between 4 and 7, with occasional visits to the 7s but always well under 7.8.
I know my FBG and pre- meal levels are normal (4s and low 5s) but I peak after evening meals and tend to stay near the peak for 2 to 3 hours.
 
NoCrbs4Me said:
A "normal" average blood glucose level should result in an HbA1c of close to 4.7%.

However, it may not due to a person being a higher glycator or a lower glycator than average or having a red blood cell turnover rate higher or lower than average.

So, if you are aiming for a "normal" average blood glucose level, the only real way to know how close you are is to use a continuous blood glucose monitor to get your average blood glucose level. A normal average would be 5 ± .3 mmol/L.
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And even then, given the fact frequently mentioned on this site, that continuous blood glucose monitors are even more inaccurate than the finger-prick ones (and we all know how inaccurate THEY are) ...
 
Bluetit1802 said:
I can't help but note all the preceding advice relates to YOUNG people. What about us oldies? Things wear out naturally, diabetes or not.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2080461/

I will stick to my personal target of between 4 and 7, with occasional visits to the 7s but always well under 7.8.
I know my FBG and pre- meal levels are normal (4s and low 5s) but I peak after evening meals and tend to stay near the peak for 2 to 3 hours.
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Here's a continuous glucose monitoring study using 34 healthy people around 60 to 70 years old:

http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0139973

Result - mean glucose levels around 5.1 to 5.2 mmol/l - almost the same as the study using people in their 20s.
 
Bluetit1802 said:
I can't help but note all the preceding advice relates to YOUNG people. What about us oldies? Things wear out naturally, diabetes or not.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2080461/

I will stick to my personal target of between 4 and 7, with occasional visits to the 7s but always well under 7.8.
I know my FBG and pre- meal levels are normal (4s and low 5s) but I peak after evening meals and tend to stay near the peak for 2 to 3 hours.
Click to expand...
The people from whom the "normal" bg levels were taken were young and, as Dr B explains, NOT eating the typical American high carb diet. However, Dr B believes most diabetics of any age can attain these levels if we behave ourselves, and at 83 he is his own prime testimonial. I have only just started on this path, and I have to say the results so far do not encourage me to believe that I can become a credit to Dr B's teaching.
 
Alexandra100 said:
The people from whom the "normal" bg levels were taken were young and, as Dr B explains, NOT eating the typical American high carb diet. However, Dr B believes most diabetics of any age can attain these levels if we behave ourselves, and at 83 he is his own prime testimonial. I have only just started on this path, and I have to say the results so far do not encourage me to believe that I can become a credit to Dr B's teaching.
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You need to remember Dr. Bernstein is Type 1 and insulin dependent. He can control his insulin requirements, we can't.
 
Bluetit1802 said:
You need to remember Dr. Bernstein is Type 1 and insulin dependent. He can control his insulin requirements, we can't.
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I love you @Bluetit1802 and I thought the same thing. It is NOT EVEN CLOSE to that easy. We can suffer hypos for no reason what so ever. I followed brenstian as a type 2 and just ate vlc ( same as I do now) and if I messed up I took a good walk. All was well. Now insulin acts differnt ALL the time. Sometimes like water and sometimes way overshoots to hypo land. Never know what it's going to do. I remember reading it and first thought was a good laugh and saying ' hello , you take insulin, how hard can it be?' I'm hear to tell you I'm eating my laughter and words. I wish I were those 2 again and could just walk it off.

I do still love and use his laws of small numbers to keep me further ( not gone) away from hypos. They're just not as severe. And I love Jenny Ruhl. Spent hours on her site and have her books. She's a love.y lady too

I also incrrporated on the way the roseday diet that had the magic key to not knowing why my bg was going up with a no carb meal. So the moderating protein helped.

We are all at differnt stages with differnt amount of pancreatic function so differnt foods act differnt for everyone.

I mean no harm or criticism what so ever !!! I highly respect you.
 
Reading this, I am thinking would it be legal for Dr Bernstein to drive in the UK and would his GP sign the form to say he was safe for a HGV licence given how low he keeps his BG?
 
serenity648 said:
I dont think I could get that low for my fasting blood test, as i seem to be one of those people who have a liver dump almost as soon as i open my eyes. But as a pre-meal target its worth the attempt.
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The last meal of the day can have a huge effect on fastings. As odd as it may seem, and goes against lots of tradition, a smaller evening meal can make a huge difference. It WAS always my largest meal and though I could control bg I had higher fastings. And perhaps even earlier.
A nice slow t moderate walk after dinner, nothing strenuous does wonders over night too.
Have you ever tested through the night? I start my rise around 6. It sure is a nuisance.
 
Kristin251 said:
I love you @Bluetit1802 and I thought the same thing. It is NOT EVEN CLOSE to that easy. We can suffer hypos for no reason what so ever. I followed brenstian as a type 2 and just ate vlc ( same as I do now) and if I messed up I took a good walk. All was well. Now insulin acts differnt ALL the time. Sometimes like water and sometimes way overshoots to hypo land. Never know what it's going to do. I remember reading it and first thought was a good laugh and saying ' hello , you take insulin, how hard can it be?' I'm hear to tell you I'm eating my laughter and words. I wish I were those 2 again and could just walk it off.

I do still love and use his laws of small numbers to keep me further ( not gone) away from hypos. They're just not as severe. And I love Jenny Ruhl. Spent hours on her site and have her books. She's a love.y lady too

I also incrrporated on the way the roseday diet that had the magic key to not knowing why my bg was going up with a no carb meal. So the moderating protein helped.

We are all at differnt stages with differnt amount of pancreatic function so differnt foods act differnt for everyone.

I mean no harm or criticism what so ever !!! I highly respect you.
Click to expand...

And I love you too!! Please don't misunderstand me, I never said it was easy for Dr. B or any insulin dependent diabetic. It must be horrendous and I doubt I could do it! I do not envy you at all. All I meant was he is in control of the insulin he injects to counteract his glucose, and he is an expert in this field. As T2s most of us have absolutely no control over how much or how little insulin we produce to counteract any glucose we have, either from food or from our livers - and when the liver dumps we have to rely on our own insulin. We can't bolus for it. When we make a mistake in our eating, we can't bolus, same for strenuous exercise, and when we are ill, stressed or injured and our levels shoot up, we can't add any extra insulin (and if we did it may get rejected!) That was all I was trying to say .... and I am tired so brain not working properly. :banghead:
 
Bluetit1802 said:
And I love you too!! Please don't misunderstand me, I never said it was easy for Dr. B or any insulin dependent diabetic. It must be horrendous and I doubt I could do it! I do not envy you at all. All I meant was he is in control of the insulin he injects to counteract his glucose, and he is an expert in this field. As T2s most of us have absolutely no control over how much or how little insulin we produce to counteract any glucose we have, either from food or from our livers - and when the liver dumps we have to rely on our own insulin. We can't bolus for it. When we make a mistake in our eating, we can't bolus, same for strenuous exercise, and when we are ill, stressed or injured and our levels shoot up, we can't add any extra insulin (and if we did it may get rejected!) That was all I was trying to say .... and I am tired so brain not working properly. :banghead:
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I know you meant no harm. T2 was frustrating walking in the ind and rain ( yes I did) and but at least I could exercise. Far too challenging now.

Like you, housework. I busted into tears yesterday after seeing my meter from washing floors. Today I almost threw it after glass cleaning.

Using insulin does help the morning rise that you can't do so on cold rainy days i do appreciate that but on warm sunny I'd rather take a leisurely peaceful walk before starting my day. There are advantages to both but the hypos completely STINK. And those come on the smallest dose possible. With food even. Then the blurry eyes, headache, nausea. There is NO good diabetes. They all stink. And EVERY day is different.

I didn't take it personally. Just having a few OFF days where nothing makes sense. Except my incoming melted Brie with roasted p and and green onion. Yay. At least thing will be great until I test again. Wish I could just test when I'm confident I'm ok. Haha.
 
When I first read Bernstein (around the same time I found this forum) I remember thinking the man was MAD.
Too strict. Unrealistic expectations on blood glucose and food (and yes, those recipes are dire). I also knew that I would never in a million years hit his exercise targets. My body won't let me.

I mean, the man suggests Type 2s are put on insulin to drive their bgs down to his targets, when other docs probably wouldn't even prescribe Metformin.

Like several posters above, I decided to aim for Jenny Ruhl's easier target of below 7.8 at all times.

And with a bit of effort I got there.
And then I got a bit a lower.
And now, after several years of experiments, reading, a much better understanding of insulin resistance and more experience of how my own body works, I think the man is a brilliant pioneer, I respect his knowledge and experience, I aspire to lower my blood glucose to as close to his targets as possible - on the clear understanding that the best I can do is to stay as far under 7.8 as much as possible.

I'm OK with the result. Bernsteins targets remain unreachable. Jenny Ruhl's are doable. But I would still like to get lower.
Other health conditions, age, activity, ongoing insulin resistance and a desire to actually enjoy my food all play a part.

Edited to add: Actually, nowadays, I aim to stay under 7 as much as possible. But that is still closer to Jenny Ruhl's figs than Bernstein's.
 
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serenity648 said:
I have just come across the recommendation by Dr Bernstein to keep blood sugar levels around 83. I assume thats a US figure? it seems to equate to 4.7 in UK terms.

Is that the HbA1c? or fasting? or pre-meal?

Can someone tell me if I am correct that, if it is HbA1c then it is 27 - which seems very low to me. But then, I havent come across this before. I thought that getting under 39 was normal, and anything under about 30 was lower than non-diabetic levels.

any info gratefully received
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Yes he does suggest 83.
 
serenity648 said:
but I am not a type 1......................sorry, am i being thick?
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I'm not sure it's attainable for type 2s. I can't see how we can have that much control. Berstein has managed non diabetic levels for over 40 years.
 
Bluetit1802 said:
You need to remember Dr. Bernstein is Type 1 and insulin dependent. He can control his insulin requirements, we can't.
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That's why I don't think most type 2s can manage those levels because we just don't have that level of control. I'm careful what I eat and A1c of 34 is equivalent (I think) to 5.3
 
dbr10 said:
That's why I don't think most type 2s can manage those levels because we just don't have that level of control. I'm careful what I eat and A1c of 34 is equivalent (I think) to 5.3
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We have those lovely liver dumps we can do nothing about, and one slip up with food, celebration, or deliberate experiment can send us sky rocketing, and we just have to ride it out.
 
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