Dr Bernstein and blood sugar levels.

[VioletViolet]

When I first read Bernstein (around the same time I found this forum) I remember thinking the man was MAD.
Too strict. Unrealistic expectations on blood glucose and food (and yes, those recipes are dire). I also knew that I would never in a million years hit his exercise targets. My body won't let me.

I mean, the man suggests Type 2s are put on insulin to drive their bgs down to his targets, when other docs probably wouldn't even prescribe Metformin.

Like several posters above, I decided to aim for Jenny Ruhl's easier target of below 7.8 at all times.

And with a bit of effort I got there.
And then I got a bit a lower.
And now, after several years of experiments, reading, a much better understanding of insulin resistance and more experience of how my own body works, I think the man is a brilliant pioneer, I respect his knowledge and experience, I aspire to lower my blood glucose to as close to his targets as possible - on the clear understanding that the best I can do is to stay as far under 7.8 as much as possible.

I'm OK with the result. Bernsteins targets remain unreachable. Jenny Ruhl's are doable. But I would still like to get lower.
Other health conditions, age, activity, ongoing insulin resistance and a desire to actually enjoy my food all play a part.

Edited to add: Actually, nowadays, I aim to stay under 7 as much as possible. But that is still closer to Jenny Ruhl's figs than Bernstein's.

This is fascinating. I'd never heard of Jenny Ruhl but have just been looking at her website. What does she mean in practical terms by being careful of too much protein but eating fat. I can't think what foods that be. Everything I think of (apart from oils ) is also high protein, meat , cheese, nuts etc etc ? What high fat foods does she mean?

 

[Brunneria]

This is fascinating. I'd never heard of Jenny Ruhl but have just been looking at her website. What does she mean in practical terms by being careful of too much protein but eating fat. I can't think what foods that be. Everything I think of (apart from oils ) is also high protein, meat , cheese, nuts etc etc ? What high fat foods does she mean?

You might find the www.dietdoctor.com website a useful read too

There are lots of recipes there which follow the LCHF macro balance - normal protein, low carb and higher fat. Which should give you a feel for how this way of eating works out in practice. Hope that helps.

 

[Alexandra100]

Yes. Sorry. After rereading this thread, I have SO many typos!!! I read them before I post and autocorrect does something in cyberspace!! I do know how to spell lol.

@Alexandra100, it's a great book and website. It's a small fast read but I picked up quite a few gems

The main ones were the moderation of protein and to space it 4 hours apart. This allows bg, leptin and insulin to come back to baseline before raising them.
Fat snacks only.

He has a 3 week wash out phase and then a few things can be added back but I pretty much ate off his food list anyway. I just had to adjust protein and timing.

I hope you pick up some gems too. I believe his web site is pretty thorough

No typos. I'll see what happens when it hits the forum!!

Lovely new avatar!

 

[Alexandra100]

Have you tried 2.5 hour and 3 hour tests? They can be very useful.

Thanks, good idea. I'm pursuiing it, but too few trials so far to draw conclusions, except that it appears my bg often stays right down for a long time after a meal and then rises maybe to a peak at 2 hours. Not sure how long it then stays at that level. I guess that's the crux of the matter.

 

[VioletViolet]

You might find the www.dietdoctor.com website a useful read too

There are lots of recipes there which follow the LCHF macro balance - normal protein, low carb and higher fat. Which should give you a feel for how this way of eating works out in practice. Hope that helps.

Yes thank you, I do like the DD website , like this site it's changed my life, but I find it can be very dense, eggy and cloying . I also liked very much reading a female perspective with Jenny's site especially what she says about hormonal "hungers" (We all know it's not hunger as such but don't dare get in my way when I try and eat! )

I am baffled by my fatty liver desire losing lots of weight and low carb diet. (Most of the time.... )

 

[Alexandra100]

This is fascinating. I'd never heard of Jenny Ruhl but have just been looking at her website. What does she mean in practical terms by being careful of too much protein but eating fat. I can't think what foods that be. Everything I think of (apart from oils ) is also high protein, meat , cheese, nuts etc etc ? What high fat foods does she mean?

Avocados? Cream?

 

[Kristin251]

Lovely new avatar!

Thank you! It’s temporary from the post a pic of you thread. Then back to avo. Need to look for a new one

This is fascinating. I'd never heard of Jenny Ruhl but have just been looking at her website. What does she mean in practical terms by being careful of too much protein but eating fat. I can't think what foods that be. Everything I think of (apart from oils ) is also high protein, meat , cheese, nuts etc etc ? What high fat foods does she mean?

I am vlc and moderate protein. 20g carbs per day and I use the protein recommendation of .8-1 g per kg lean body mass. Then the rest is fats, about 80%. I get lots of it from avocado. A whole one a day divided into each meal. I also eat macadamia nuts, pecans, pumpkin seeds. Olive oil, mayo and some butter. Olives as well.
There is so much to read on Jenny’s site. I spent hours and hours there.

 

[Kristin251]

Thanks, good idea. I'm pursuiing it, but too few trials so far to draw conclusions, except that it appears my bg often stays right down for a long time after a meal and then rises maybe to a peak at 2 hours. Not sure how long it then stays at that level. I guess that's the crux of the matter.

If you are low enough carb and high enough fat your bg COULD be higher at the two hour mark. I’m never ever highest at one hour. It’s usually closer to two or three but the rise is very low and slow. Of course I don’t come back down then as I’ve run out of insulin so at the three hour mark I take another small dose and eat. Oh darn.

I was always this way since I started testing but I am VLC and higher fat. That make a big difference

 

[Alexandra100]

When I first read Bernstein (around the same time I found this forum) I remember thinking the man was MAD.
Too strict. Unrealistic expectations on blood glucose and food (and yes, those recipes are dire). I also knew that I would never in a million years hit his exercise targets. My body won't let me.

I mean, the man suggests Type 2s are put on insulin to drive their bgs down to his targets, when other docs probably wouldn't even prescribe Metformin.

Like several posters above, I decided to aim for Jenny Ruhl's easier target of below 7.8 at all times.

And with a bit of effort I got there.
And then I got a bit a lower.
And now, after several years of experiments, reading, a much better understanding of insulin resistance and more experience of how my own body works, I think the man is a brilliant pioneer, I respect his knowledge and experience, I aspire to lower my blood glucose to as close to his targets as possible - on the clear understanding that the best I can do is to stay as far under 7.8 as much as possible.

I'm OK with the result. Bernsteins targets remain unreachable. Jenny Ruhl's are doable. But I would still like to get lower.
Other health conditions, age, activity, ongoing insulin resistance and a desire to actually enjoy my food all play a part.

Edited to add: Actually, nowadays, I aim to stay under 7 as much as possible. But that is still closer to Jenny Ruhl's figs than Bernstein's.

I SO agree with this. To the factors you list as influencing your food choices, I'd add, my ambition to eat as varied a diet as possble. BG is an awful lot, but it's not everything.

 

[Alexandra100]

Here's a study where they put continuous glucose monitors on 24 young, healthy people:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2769652/

Their mean glucose levels were 89.3 ± 6.2 mg/dl (5 ± .3 mmol/L).
Their highest levels were after breakfast (101–168 mg/dl or 5.6 to 9.3 mmol/L).

Dr B defends 4.7 by saying that it is the level enjoyed by young healthy people who do NOT eat the American high carb diet. This fits with the highest bg levels in the study being found after breakfast. Heaven knows where Dr B found the young paragons he cites.

 

[VioletViolet]

Thank you! It’s temporary from the post a pic of you thread. Then back to avo. Need to look for a new one

I am vlc and moderate protein. 20g carbs per day and I use the protein recommendation of .8-1 g per kg lean body mass. Then the rest is fats, about 80%. I get lots of it from avocado. A whole one a day divided into each meal. I also eat macadamia nuts, pecans, pumpkin seeds. Olive oil, mayo and some butter. Olives as well.
There is so much to read on Jenny’s site. I spent hours and hours there.

Thank you

Did you use her calculation for the protein? I am trying to run before I can walk as usual - I need to do more reading and in the meantime watch my protein intake as that's what could be contributing to my fatty liver.

How do you stop the avocado going manky?


PS You have beautiful skin, the avocado is clearly doing you good! Mine's more like I'm a bad fairy with a curse at a Disney christening

 

[mcartoscelli]

Dr. B also really enjoyed/enjoys the feeling of being Hypo and would intentionally ride that line.
His receptionist lost count of the number of times paramedics had to be called to stabilize him.

He is brilliant though, a little wacky, but brilliant.

 

[Kristin251]

Thank you

Did you use her calculation for the protein? I am trying to run before I can walk as usual - I need to do more reading and in the meantime watch my protein intake as that's what could be contributing to my fatty liver.

How do you stop the avocado going manky?


PS You have beautiful skin, the avocado is clearly doing you good! Mine's more like I'm a bad fairy with a curse at a Disney christening

Awe. Thank you. Seriously though, it did help my skin and my cholesterol has been stellar! It gives me constant steady energy and for the first time in my life I’m not ravenous? It’s the healthiest natural fat I can think of. It’s been miraculous for me.

That being said they are a bit like babies. They need constant attention. I buy mine green and let them ripen on my counter. I stage them to ripen a few at a time but some take 2 days and some 5 so a bit of a juggling act. They key is once they have just a LITTLE give when pushed end to end and a little in the center then put them in the refrigerator. That stops the ripening. I’ve had as many as 12 and not a bad one. I wouldn’t recommend twelve haha but i always have 6 ripe and more ripening. If I do get a bad one I need to know there’s more.

As for protein I use the recommended amount from many gurus starting with Ron Rosedale and the Rosedale diet book.
I was type 2 before I progressed to LADA and the protein element was key to getting my bg in order. Now that I use insulin I can clearly see this as I need to take insulin for 1/2 my protein as if it were carbs and if I eat a large portion I need to take more later. However, this is because I am vlc. Without carbs I will gluconeogenisis and since I’ve been vlc for many years I am a rockstar at it. The body will always burn carbs first, then it goes to protein and fat. Without the carbs it can turn 58% of protein into bg. Again, if there are enough carbs in the meal it will not do this.

 

[VioletViolet]

Awe. Thank you. Seriously though, it did help my skin and my cholesterol has been stellar! It gives me constant steady energy and for the first time in my life I’m not ravenous? It’s the healthiest natural fat I can think of. It’s been miraculous for me.

That being said they are a bit like babies. They need constant attention. I buy mine green and let them ripen on my counter. I stage them to ripen a few at a time but some take 2 days and some 5 so a bit of a juggling act. They key is once they have just a LITTLE give when pushed end to end and a little in the center then put them in the refrigerator. That stops the ripening. I’ve had as many as 12 and not a bad one. I wouldn’t recommend twelve haha but i always have 6 ripe and more ripening. If I do get a bad one I need to know there’s more.

As for protein I use the recommended amount from many gurus starting with Ron Rosedale and the Rosedale diet book.
I was type 2 before I progressed to LADA and the protein element was key to getting my bg in order. Now that I use insulin I can clearly see this as I need to take insulin for 1/2 my protein as if it were carbs and if I eat a large portion I need to take more later. However, this is because I am vlc. Without carbs I will gluconeogenisis and since I’ve been vlc for many years I am a rockstar at it. The body will always burn carbs first, then it goes to protein and fat. Without the carbs it can turn 58% of protein into bg. Again, if there are enough carbs in the meal it will not do this.

Thank you thats really helpful. Nobody ever told me what a commitment avocados were! I may not be mature enough to cope emotionally!

Once you've opened one to last the day how do you stop it going brown whilst it's in the fridge?

I will look into the Rosedale book too

Awe. Thank you. Seriously though, it did help my skin and my cholesterol has been stellar! It gives me constant steady energy and for the first time in my life I’m not ravenous? It’s the healthiest natural fat I can think of. It’s been miraculous for me.

That being said they are a bit like babies. They need constant attention. I buy mine green and let them ripen on my counter. I stage them to ripen a few at a time but some take 2 days and some 5 so a bit of a juggling act. They key is once they have just a LITTLE give when pushed end to end and a little in the center then put them in the refrigerator. That stops the ripening. I’ve had as many as 12 and not a bad one. I wouldn’t recommend twelve haha but i always have 6 ripe and more ripening. If I do get a bad one I need to know there’s more.

As for protein I use the recommended amount from many gurus starting with Ron Rosedale and the Rosedale diet book.
I was type 2 before I progressed to LADA and the protein element was key to getting my bg in order. Now that I use insulin I can clearly see this as I need to take insulin for 1/2 my protein as if it were carbs and if I eat a large portion I need to take more later. However, this is because I am vlc. Without carbs I will gluconeogenisis and since I’ve been vlc for many years I am a rockstar at it. The body will always burn carbs first, then it goes to protein and fat. Without the carbs it can turn 58% of protein into bg. Again, if there are enough carbs in the meal it will not do this.

 

[Kristin251]

Thank you thats really helpful. Nobody ever told me what a commitment avocados were! I may not be mature enough to cope emotionally!

Once you've opened one to last the day how do you stop it going brown whilst it's in the fridge?

I will look into the Rosedale book too

Hubby is the same. Almost went to tears when he wanted them after seeing my stellar cholesterol but said he ‘can’t do what I do’ so now I, incubating them for him too! As for stopping them once opened the key is to seal out all the air. I am a hair designer and the paper end wraps for perms are the perfect size so I use those. You can out a little lemon or lime juice on them, seal the pit area after you e removed it and put it flesh down on a plate and push down lightly. Don’t take it out of the skin until you’re going to eat it. I never have any left but hubby eats half so of course the other half is left. You might need to just scrape the top layer off to remove the brown. I don’t eat brown. That’s why I hoard them.

The most amazing benefit I found with them is that they keep my bs very low and slow. No sharp dips or spikes. If I just eat protein I spike like it was a carb. If I eat some carbs and protein I’ll dip then spike. If I eat avo with protein and a few carbs I stay very flat. I’ve tested this theory multiple times and I have written all over my journal ALWAYS HAVE AVO WITH EVERY MEAL. HAHA. There have been a few occasions that I don’t want to be bothered with them or get a few weeks they’re not great ( seasons of the regions they’re from) and am very sharply reminded they are as important to me as insulin to keep bg happy.

Of course you can just buy them as needed. Then green is not the color. Pick one that feels firm but has some give from end to end. I prefer mine on the firm side rather than soft. Mushy forget it.

Another way to save it is to smash it with a fork and make guacamole out of it. Just be sure to use some lemon or lime juice. Then other options are jalapeños, red pepper flakes, cilantro, onion, green onion, tomato. The. Put the rest in a bowl and cover tightly with waxed paper or plastic wrap. You’ll probably have to skim the top off. The most important is to get it as air tight as possible.
I usually just take a big wedge and add sea salt. Sometimes I smash some into a letttuce wrap into some deli meat.

The Rosedale website is fairly complete and good info if your interested. He’s about moderating protein to keep insulin and leptin levels low.

 

[Scott-C]

Heaven knows where Dr B found the young paragons he cites.

The little blighters probably just taped the sensors down tight to get permanent compression lows!

 

[Alexandra100]

Hubby is the same. Almost went to tears when he wanted them after seeing my stellar cholesterol but said he ‘can’t do what I do’ so now I, incubating them for him too! As for stopping them once opened the key is to seal out all the air. I am a hair designer and the paper end wraps for perms are the perfect size so I use those. You can out a little lemon or lime juice on them, seal the pit area after you e removed it and put it flesh down on a plate and push down lightly. Don’t take it out of the skin until you’re going to eat it. I never have any left but hubby eats half so of course the other half is left. You might need to just scrape the top layer off to remove the brown. I don’t eat brown. That’s why I hoard them.

The most amazing benefit I found with them is that they keep my bs very low and slow. No sharp dips or spikes. If I just eat protein I spike like it was a carb. If I eat some carbs and protein I’ll dip then spike. If I eat avo with protein and a few carbs I stay very flat. I’ve tested this theory multiple times and I have written all over my journal ALWAYS HAVE AVO WITH EVERY MEAL. HAHA. There have been a few occasions that I don’t want to be bothered with them or get a few weeks they’re not great ( seasons of the regions they’re from) and am very sharply reminded they are as important to me as insulin to keep bg happy.

Of course you can just buy them as needed. Then green is not the color. Pick one that feels firm but has some give from end to end. I prefer mine on the firm side rather than soft. Mushy forget it.

Another way to save it is to smash it with a fork and make guacamole out of it. Just be sure to use some lemon or lime juice. Then other options are jalapeños, red pepper flakes, cilantro, onion, green onion, tomato. The. Put the rest in a bowl and cover tightly with waxed paper or plastic wrap. You’ll probably have to skim the top off. The most important is to get it as air tight as possible.
I usually just take a big wedge and add sea salt. Sometimes I smash some into a letttuce wrap into some deli meat.

The Rosedale website is fairly complete and good info if your interested. He’s about moderating protein to keep insulin and leptin levels low.

Hubby is the same. Almost went to tears when he wanted them after seeing my stellar cholesterol but said he ‘can’t do what I do’ so now I, incubating them for him too! As for stopping them once opened the key is to seal out all the air. I am a hair designer and the paper end wraps for perms are the perfect size so I use those. You can out a little lemon or lime juice on them, seal the pit area after you e removed it and put it flesh down on a plate and push down lightly. Don’t take it out of the skin until you’re going to eat it. I never have any left but hubby eats half so of course the other half is left. You might need to just scrape the top layer off to remove the brown. I don’t eat brown. That’s why I hoard them.

The most amazing benefit I found with them is that they keep my bs very low and slow. No sharp dips or spikes. If I just eat protein I spike like it was a carb. If I eat some carbs and protein I’ll dip then spike. If I eat avo with protein and a few carbs I stay very flat. I’ve tested this theory multiple times and I have written all over my journal ALWAYS HAVE AVO WITH EVERY MEAL. HAHA. There have been a few occasions that I don’t want to be bothered with them or get a few weeks they’re not great ( seasons of the regions they’re from) and am very sharply reminded they are as important to me as insulin to keep bg happy.

Of course you can just buy them as needed. Then green is not the color. Pick one that feels firm but has some give from end to end. I prefer mine on the firm side rather than soft. Mushy forget it.

Another way to save it is to smash it with a fork and make guacamole out of it. Just be sure to use some lemon or lime juice. Then other options are jalapeños, red pepper flakes, cilantro, onion, green onion, tomato. The. Put the rest in a bowl and cover tightly with waxed paper or plastic wrap. You’ll probably have to skim the top off. The most important is to get it as air tight as possible.
I usually just take a big wedge and add sea salt. Sometimes I smash some into a letttuce wrap into some deli meat.

The Rosedale website is fairly complete and good info if your interested. He’s about moderating protein to keep insulin and leptin levels low.

Advice on how to preserve guacamole here: http://www.thekitchn.com/the-best-way-to-keep-guacamole-green-tips-from-the-kitchn-193462

 

[Kristin251]

Advice on how to preserve guacamole here: http://www.thekitchn.com/the-best-way-to-keep-guacamole-green-tips-from-the-kitchn-193462

Never ever heard of that! I happen to have an abundance of them right now. Might give it a try. Although I don’t usually go to the double of guacamole. I just scoop and eat. But great for future reference.

 

[VioletViolet]

Hubby is the same. Almost went to tears when he wanted them after seeing my stellar cholesterol but said he ‘can’t do what I do’ so now I, incubating them for him too! As for stopping them once opened the key is to seal out all the air. I am a hair designer and the paper end wraps for perms are the perfect size so I use those. You can out a little lemon or lime juice on them, seal the pit area after you e removed it and put it flesh down on a plate and push down lightly. Don’t take it out of the skin until you’re going to eat it. I never have any left but hubby eats half so of course the other half is left. You might need to just scrape the top layer off to remove the brown. I don’t eat brown. That’s why I hoard them.

The most amazing benefit I found with them is that they keep my bs very low and slow. No sharp dips or spikes. If I just eat protein I spike like it was a carb. If I eat some carbs and protein I’ll dip then spike. If I eat avo with protein and a few carbs I stay very flat. I’ve tested this theory multiple times and I have written all over my journal ALWAYS HAVE AVO WITH EVERY MEAL. HAHA. There have been a few occasions that I don’t want to be bothered with them or get a few weeks they’re not great ( seasons of the regions they’re from) and am very sharply reminded they are as important to me as insulin to keep bg happy.

Of course you can just buy them as needed. Then green is not the color. Pick one that feels firm but has some give from end to end. I prefer mine on the firm side rather than soft. Mushy forget it.

Another way to save it is to smash it with a fork and make guacamole out of it. Just be sure to use some lemon or lime juice. Then other options are jalapeños, red pepper flakes, cilantro, onion, green onion, tomato. The. Put the rest in a bowl and cover tightly with waxed paper or plastic wrap. You’ll probably have to skim the top off. The most important is to get it as air tight as possible.
I usually just take a big wedge and add sea salt. Sometimes I smash some into a letttuce wrap into some deli meat.

The Rosedale website is fairly complete and good info if your interested. He’s about moderating protein to keep insulin and leptin levels low.

Thanks for all the info - you should write a big book of avocados!
x

 

[Grateful]

For avocados, I use the same methods as Kristin. Leave on counter until they feel very slightly soft. Then, put in fridge. If not eating entire avocado in one go, seal the un-eaten part in air-tight wrapping. It keeps for at least one day, although you may want to scrape off the brown layer.

In fact my diet is very similar to hers. Avocados, nuts, olives and salads form a large part of it. The exception is the evening meal when there is one "main" protein/fat dish (fish or meat) with low-carb vegetables.

I have been underweight (or close to it) for much of my life. The only exception was in the years prior to T2 diagnosis when I had put on weight. In the first few weeks after going on the low-carb diet I was ravenously hungry, but with time, that went away completely.

Early days. I'm only nine months into this diabetes thing.