More Support, less Advice for Newbies

[Boo1979]

I do so like to be controversial . My point really is only the one about speed. I do think that anything we can do to help those arriving to avoid the medication treadmill we should try to do. Once on them its really hard job to get off them and the stronger the drug the harder the struggle.
My point about the starting 24 hour fast, was only that if one started with this then one would get the ketones kicking in much faster .

And start to feel sicker from keto flu too?

 

[librarising]

Yes I have too. How long does it take to befriend someone. Me it would be months maybe years. I don't give away my friendship that quickly/easily.

Personally I have a problem with what is being suggested because I would have given up on the forum rather as I did on the other one. Then I wouldn't have got the help and support that I needed.

Agreed. Libras tend to want to be helpful. Friends less so. People arrive at this forum needing different things. Great advice from the get-go was just what I was looking for, and what I found.
Geoff

 

[CherryAA]

Well, I felt pretty sick anyway at the time -! high blood sugar made me feel far worse than keto flue ever did !

For me the key point is that today many doctors simply put their patients on medications on day one without giving diet a chance to work. I don't particularly mind how one goes about trying to change that- but I do think it should be changed and I do think newcomers should know pretty quickly that there are non drug options before they come to rely on them too much.

 

[lucylocket61]

Maybe I misunderstood, I thought you said 'support' first and after 'befriending' then advice? What would be your timeframe inbetween the two?

Our advice, our helping people tweak their initial findings, expanding on @daisy1 's initial post with our own personal experiences, if appropriate. Not in a way which tells them what to do, but in a way which gives them more options by learning what others have found successful. See my previous post 121.

 

[Guzzler]

Again I dont think its necessarily a case of not giving advice, rather not telling people what they “must” and “must not do”

I cannot recall advice given to a newbie that they 'must' do anything except when the advice has been to seek medical attention.

 

[Boo1979]

It is always easier to make changes when standing on a burning deck. .

For some personality types yes, for other personality types the best thing to do in a dangerous situation is to run away and hide

 

[Boo1979]

I cannot recall advice given to a newbie that they 'must' do anything except when the advice has been to seek medical attention.

I have seen very dogmatic dietary advice, almost certainly given with the best of intentions but very dogmatic non the less and not always appropriate to the medical circumstances of the other person

 

[lucylocket61]

I cannot recall advice given to a newbie that they 'must' do anything except when the advice has been to seek medical attention.

Have you missed all the posts telling people to fast, to stop all starchy carbs totally, to have less than 50g of any carbs daily. before the poster even knows what type of diabetic they are replying to or what meds they are on? I wouldnt be taking this time to start and continue posting o this thread if there wasnt a genuine number of posters who do this, which worried me sufficiently to come out here and say something about it.

 

[lucylocket61]

For some personality types yes, for other personality types the best thing to do in a dangerous situation is to run away and hide

or freeze. I make no secret of my battles with eating disorder and mental health. The first thing i did was freeze at the thought of no more bread, potatoes, pasta or rice.

 

[archersuz]

We are all different and we need to embrace our differences and diversity. I admire all of you. I couldn't do what CherryAA is doing, as I have a very active job and need fuel during the day. I don't have time to spend on hours of food prep and cooking but it works for her and well done! Most people have made huge changes to food choices and exercise and we should celebrate their great results.

 

[CherryAA]

Have you missed all the posts telling people to fast, to stop all starchy carbs totally, to have less than 50g of any carbs daily. before the poster even knows what type of diabetic they are replying to or what meds they are on? I wouldnt be taking this time to start and continue posting o this thread if there wasnt a genuine number of posters who do this, which worried me sufficiently to come out here and say something about it.

Well I only brought up fasting here- because its a great way to stop the actual sugar cravings if you can do it for just one day - hard though it is! I can't say I've ever suggested it to a newbie

 

[CherryAA]

We are all different and we need to embrace our differences and diversity. I admire all of you. I couldn't do what CherryAA is doing, as I have a very active job and need fuel during the day. I don't have time to spend on hours of food prep and cooking but it works for her and well done! Most people have made huge changes to food choices and exercise and we should celebrate their great results.

Actually @archerdusuz, I've had a really hard time getting my head round fasting - one thing I will say, which I am sure that people who do it a lot will confirm, is that in practice when I don't eat at all for a bit I get a lot more energy and no food cravings - its all very bizarre,but not at all like one would imagine ! ( assuming of course that one does have actual body fat to use instead !) .

 

[lucylocket61]

Well I only brought up fasting here- because its a great way to stop the actual sugar cravings if you can do it for just one day - hard though it is! I can't say I've ever suggested it to a newbie

However, by posting this: "We suggest you fast for 24 hours, and use that time to google low carb diets, implementing the changes to your diet on recommencing eating. " for an intial post for newbies, that is exactly what you are suggesting should happen in the future.

 

[Pinkorchid]

I do not think anyone here is saying we should not give advice but we should not rush into telling newbies to change their diet and start testing their blood before they have even had a chance to get their head round having diabetes Yes as pointed out on this thread I did advise someone who was new here a little while ago not to test her blood if she really did not want to as the thought of doing it was quite clearly stressing her out and just adding to her panic about how she would cope with her diabetes but no one seemed to see it and just went on about how she would have to do it just making her feel more scared Maybe when she has had time to come to terms with her diabetes she may decide to test but that has to be her decision not up to us to pressure her

 

[Guzzler]

Have you missed all the posts telling people to fast, to stop all starchy carbs totally, to have less than 50g of any carbs daily. before the poster even knows what type of diabetic they are replying to or what meds they are on? I wouldnt be taking this time to start and continue posting o this thread if there wasnt a genuine number of posters who do this, which worried me sufficiently to come out here and say something about it.

Dogma is perceived differently. I am not dogmatic. I have seen questions on reducing carbs and the answers have been salutery in the main. Members have stated where they started on the scale and where they feel comfortable ending up on that scale. I have never seen a comment where a advocate of keto/LCHF has said definitively that an XX amount is the only way to approach better control.

 

[lucylocket61]

Actually @archerdusuz, I've had a really hard time getting my head round fasting - one thing I will say, which I am sure that people who do it a lot will confirm, is that in practice when I don't eat at all for a bit I get a lot more energy and no food cravings - its all very bizarre,but not at all like one would imagine ! ( assuming of course that one does have actual body fat to use instead !) .

I have tried fasting. I faint after about 18 hours. I get dizzy, get very nauseous, then faint. I dont know why, neither does my DSN, but i go below 4 and faint. I have done this several times now. So fasting, for me, is not good. Even though I ma type 2 on no meds, my liver seems to take a long time to dump. I am never in actual danger, unless I fainted crossing a street, perhaps, but its not a good feeling. It takes me about an hour to stop shaking, although the faint, according to my husband, is only a few moments. My friend, who helped me once when it happened, and is a nurse, thinks it may be to do with low blood pressure, which I also have.

 

[NoCrbs4Me]

Have you missed all the posts telling people to fast, to stop all starchy carbs totally, to have less than 50g of any carbs daily. before the poster even knows what type of diabetic they are replying to or what meds they are on? I wouldnt be taking this time to start and continue posting o this thread if there wasnt a genuine number of posters who do this, which worried me sufficiently to come out here and say something about it.

If you see dangerous advice on the forum you should immediately report it to a moderator. I doubt telling people not to provide advice to newcomers for a week would make any difference on the amount of dangerous advice given here. Personally, I haven't seen much dangerous advice given here, though. Do you have some examples?

 

[Guzzler]

I have to admit, a 24 hour fast soon after dx would have seen me running for the hills. It is not necessary to ensure the lessening of carb craving at all. To go from a carb rich diet with high bg to a 24 hour fast would only serve to make one feel rabied hunger. Carb craving takes a good while to overcome.

 

[woodywhippet61]

I repeat, this is my initial post: "I am concerned about the dangers of incorrect advice and especially dietary advice, to new people, who post and, in the first days and week get well meaning but, ultimately, incorrect advice" the first week. Not weeks, not months, or looking to become besties, but the first few days.

And I repeat to you that if people hadn't posted low carb advice to me when I first posted then I wouldn't have come back and thus I'd have been harmed. Daisy1's advice wasn't enough to keep me off meds. I am a carb addict so just cutting back slowly wouldn't have worked, it would have been hell everyday that I tried to cut them back and I would have failed with all that that would have meant for my psychological and my physiological health.

IMO the system as it is works for most people including me. The system isn't perfect but it's NOT a one solution fits all especially if there are people like yourself trying to address the balance.

 

[Boo1979]

Well I only brought up fasting here- because its a great way to stop the actual sugar cravings if you can do it for just one day - hard though it is! I can't say I've ever suggested it to a newbie

But you do say

“ frankly if all T2 newcomers were simply toldon arrival not eat any food for 24 hours, then recommence eating but low carb " then many people would be well on the road to recovery within a week.
In my opinion THAT should be included in the official message which gets sent out to newcomers.”