saw this on the DUK website - breakthrough in type 2 treatment

andcol

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Good points andcol; not ignoring it exactly, just didn't know about it (or if I have read it, I've forgotten). Would something like intermittent fasting, 5:2, one meal a day or similar achieve the desired result? You mention fasting helps your control on the occasions when you need it. Do you feel that the long-term calorie reduction is required to kick-start cell repair, before moving onto maintenance / mend-it, on an as-and-when basis. Or there again, is that somthing that depends on individual responses.

Yes intermittent fasting is known to bring on autophagy and so is exercise that stresses the muscles (like resistance training) and also, due to switching insulin requirements very low, is ketosis.
 

woodywhippet61

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Personally i wouldnt do these form of diets. Low carb works so why starve yourself without help.
They must have really felt low and punishing themselves because theyve been told its their own fault! Very very sad way to treat a patient, I feel

I agree this concerns me as well. I really hope that the people for whom this has worked maintain it. There is so much blame and shame attached to having a T2 diagnosis.
 
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Salvia

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Yes intermittent fasting is known to bring on autophagy and so is exercise that stresses the muscles (like resistance training) and also, due to switching insulin requirements very low, is ketosis.

Thanks, andcol - that's helpful and hopeful info. I don't think I could do the ND diet but I'm ok with fasting, and exercise. I could do that more regularly and for a longer time on each occasion.
 

Biggles2

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its "all about portion size and inactivity.."
Totally agree @bulkbiker -Yes, it is the same old story: obesity conceptualized as a moral failure - featuring 2 of the 7 deadly sins no less: gluttony and sloth!
Gary Taubes has written about how this flawed paradigm came about in the following article:
http://www.nature.com/news/treat-obesity-as-physiology-not-physics-1.12014
“This paradigm of energy balance/overeating/gluttony/sloth became the conventional, unquestioned explanation for why we get fat.”
 

himtoo

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why can't everyone get on........
BUT the bad news is that the bad dietary advice is going to continue i.e. thou shalt eat carbs. Which for many people will be very, very difficult to do in moderation due to carb cravings and carb addiction. So they will eat 'normally' and they will put on weight and they will be blamed for getting their T2 back. It's just like a weight loss diet. So they'll then have to BUY the shakes etc. It's Weight Watchers and Slimming World all over again. There will be yo yo diabetics.

Forgot to say not to mention which company is going to make lots of money from selling shakes.
you make a fair point regarding bad dietary advice -- but I think your focus is looking at now versus looking forward --
look at your own signature profile -- you have made individual change in under 6 months -- societal change can take a while longer to implement , I have learned much about patience in my time...........
 
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ickihun

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At least with bariatric surgery, the form which reverses diabetes, has more influence on long-term prognosis. Ok there is more research in this field than ND and being performed successful, for longer but far less hungry whilst improving diabetes status, permanently.
Yes many add weight in settling down 2yrs after op. Many lose more than predicted too.
I hoping for a workable bmi with my diabetes.. If i manage to reverse it it will be also be needing good aftercare/management. Which is obviously self management. This is where bariatric surgery fails it's participants. After surgery. Currently huge emphasis on choosing the right patients.
I hope to do their statistics proud. And their aftercare stats even better.
Maybe we need a section in the forum for aftercare/maintenance?
 

Down-Jai 001

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I do wonder as I look at the low calorie intake, on the breakthu news today, as low as 200 a day and I use ove 400 in one activity. I am not over weigh but I want to come off : the slow release insulin inject 6 units just in the evening only. At the moment I'm on the low carb diet. Perhaps there's no way I could get off the insulin.
 
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ickihun

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I agree this concerns me as well. I really hope that the people for whom this has worked maintain it. There is so much blame and shame attached to having a T2 diagnosis.
The poor woman on bbc news at lunchtime, i really could see the sorrow in her eyes. What will happen if she starts adding weight or has rogue bgs due to stress etc... i really feel for her. So much pressure on her when most likely it will be out of her control. :(
 
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bulkbiker

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I am also quite interested in what the 4% in the control group did to achieve their remission (which I imagine was quite unexpected)... was it LCHF I wonder and did they find it here...
 

ickihun

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I do wonder as I look at the low calorie intake, on the breakthu news today, as low as 200 a day and I use ove 400 in one activity. I am not over weigh but I want to come off : the slow release insulin inject 6 units just in the evening only. At the moment I'm on the low carb diet. Perhaps there's no way I could get off the insulin.
If only 6units, i think you can. Is it a basal injection?
 

ickihun

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I am also quite interested in what the 4% in the control group did to achieve their remission (which I imagine was quite unexpected)... was it LCHF I wonder and did they find it here...
Sounds possible but could be the group who are told diabetes is progressive and done trails to prove professor wrong? Maybe. Will we get to know?
 

bulkbiker

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You are all ignoring the aspect of autophagy that also kicks in when you are calorie deficient. I am positive that this plays a big part of the reversal/remission by helping some of the pancreatic cells repair and start functioning again.
It worked for me and allows me to carry out a normal eating lifestyle now. Although I have worked out my body really cannot handle fructose in any quantity as it triggers an auto-immune response but glucose is fine. Once this immune response kicks in (pain in my knuckles etc) a couple of days fasting fixes it and stops the joint stiffness.
I doubt that you will get much benefit from autophagy drinking the amount of carbs contained in the shakes.. So far as I am aware carbs and protein will stop autophagy (or at least that's what my reading would suggest) so the likelihood of anyone on the trail achieving beneficial autophagy would be very surprising.
 

bulkbiker

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Yes intermittent fasting is known to bring on autophagy and so is exercise that stresses the muscles (like resistance training) and also, due to switching insulin requirements very low, is ketosis.
But they didn't do intermittent fasting they were having three shakes a day weren't they?
 

ickihun

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Totally agree @bulkbiker -Yes, it is the same old story: obesity conceptualized as a moral failure - featuring 2 of the 7 deadly sins no less: gluttony and sloth!
Gary Taubes has written about how this flawed paradigm came about in the following article:
http://www.nature.com/news/treat-obesity-as-physiology-not-physics-1.12014
“This paradigm of energy balance/overeating/gluttony/sloth became the conventional, unquestioned explanation for why we get fat.”
I agree.
When will they get it?
Type1s see it everyday.
The more insulin, the more weight. Type1s who've had no insulin for a while go too skinny which damages the organs. Of course acid builds up in the blood too.
So.... the opposite to that is too much insulin circulating and causing no energy or intermittent energy to be processed. Fat cells bring created in the wrong way which clogg up the process even more, and more.
I found r-ala a key to trying to straighten that circulation/pathway to be released. A very good supplement for type2 patients.
 

Shiba Park

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I agree.
When will they get it?
Type1s see it everyday.
The more insulin, the more weight. Type1s who've had no insulin for a while go too skinny which damages the organs. Of course acid builds up in the blood too.
So.... the opposite to that is too much insulin circulating and causing no energy or intermittent energy to be processed. Fat cells bring created in the wrong way which clogg up the process even more, and more.
I found r-ala a key to trying to straighten that circulation/pathway to be released. A very good supplement for type2 patients.


Be careful with that analogy; what happens when a type 1 has 'too much insulin circulating'? There certainly aren't any fat cells being created of the wrong or any other way! And how is 'excess insulin' addressed for a type 1?

If you're going to extrapolate between the different types of diabetes (and why not? Surely there must be at least some overlap in the carb/insulin relationship) you need to use the same goal posts. Type 1's can and do put on weight. But not as a result of hypoglycemia...