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saw this on the DUK website - breakthrough in type 2 treatment

Discussion in 'Diabetes Research' started by himtoo, Dec 5, 2017.

  1. Bluetit1802

    Bluetit1802 Type 2 (in remission!) · Guru

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  2. Fleegle

    Fleegle Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Well we don't really know how many the LC program has helped - though I am not knocking it - it is brilliant!
    Unfortunately there is a complete and utter lack of clinical research that could and should have been done and I have no idea why they do not just get on with it and bat this darn curse out of the park. Until then - the only data we have is that almost 50% of people saw a huge improvement. I simply cannot get over what good news for them that is.
     
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  3. archersuz

    archersuz Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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  4. hankjam

    hankjam Type 2 (in remission!) · Well-Known Member

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    World at One on R4 had a report on it, interviewing one of the folk, Isobel, who was very positive about what it had done for her. It was all pretty good.
    :)
     
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  5. daisyduck

    daisyduck Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    The fact that it's being reported that T2 diabetes can be reversed and put into remission is a positive step.
    I hope my GP is paying attention as he first told me it's progressive and cannot be reversed and sniffed at my request to try and sort mine with diet alone.
     
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  6. Pinkorchid

    Pinkorchid Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    I saw it as well but they are talking about a low calorie diet to loose weight with shakes and soups no good for us that are already slim or those who are low carbing
     
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  7. Brunneria

    Brunneria Other · Moderator
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    These two comments really stood out for me:

    "In this study, the team defined remission as having blood glucose levels (HbA1c) below 6.5% (48mmol/mol) after 12 months, with at least 2 months without any Type 2 diabetes medications."

    and

    “If you’re thinking about trying a low-calorie diet, it’s really important you speak to your GP and get referred to a dietitian. This is to make sure you get tailored advice and support.
    It’s also important to bear in mind that if you’re treating your Type 2 diabetes with certain medications, such as insulin or sulphonylurea, a low-calorie diet can make hypos more likely. So you’ll need support to make changes to your medications and check your blood sugar levels more often.”

    According to the first statement I have 'been in remission' for the last 4 years, without significant weight loss - and I would not DREAM of describing myself as 'remissed' or 'reversed' or anything like.

    And I wish the second statement was in Neon Flashing Lights. Far too many people launch into this kind of severe diet without medical assessment, supervision or monitoring. Although, to be honest, I think you can get better dietary advice from other sources than the NHS.

    However, having said all of that, I totally agree with you @himtoo
    The more ACCURATE, sensible coverage this study gets, the better, because even a 46% remission rate is a fab thing, for the 46%
     
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  8. Salvia

    Salvia Prediabetes · Well-Known Member

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    I think I'm a bit luke-warm about the report. It is good that some message is getting out that type 2 can be better controlled and is not necessarily a progressive disease - that has to be a hopeful sign.

    What bothers me a little is that if this type of calorie controlled diet becomes the treatment of choice (I know, I know, a long way off, but even so) - then I feel sad for anyone who becomes type 2 in the future. They will be condemned to semi-starvation for anything up to a year (and it will be their fault if it doesn't work) when all they really need to do is reduce or lose the carbs and enjoying fulfilling and satisfying meals for the rest of their lives.

    I have never tried either SW or WW, but don't they use calorie restriction - and how many folks are reported to succeed initially, only to end up re-gaining weight.

    Part of our mission is to spread ther word that low carb, healthy fat is not a "diet" (because for many people that word no longer means what it did originally), but is a way of life.
     
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  9. Honeyend

    Honeyend · Well-Known Member

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    I think what everyone has to remember is journalists are basically lazy, and with rolling news they go for easily consumed bullet points. With a bit of luck and a good wind the will be some follow up on radio, that will be better informed and more in depth.

    It will be interesting to have a look at how they chose their participants, perhaps they will now be able to raise some money for more research, as it was based on drinking something they can sell( tongue in cheak), and not just changes in food choices that cost virtually nothing.
    Remember there is a lot reputations based old knowledge, and congratulate the 46%, how ever many that is.
     
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  10. Nicole

    Nicole · Active Member

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    I think Prof Taylor aims to shrink the liver and pancread fat that causes insulin resistance. My unceruainty about the method is that it is unclear whether success is due to dropping carbs which must happen if you drop to 800 kcals
     
  11. himtoo

    himtoo Type 1 · Well-Known Member
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    i tend to agree with what you have written................... But I speak with my Endicrinologist for my Type 1 and increasingly they know that type 2 is not 1 disease -- it is a multinumber of variety of disease that manifest differently in different people -- and that treatments need to differ for all -- I have had the pleasure of looking at Diabetes for over 45 years ( and am still here ) -- so maybe the medical community needs a few years to catch up .............
     
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  12. andcol

    andcol I reversed my Type 2 · Well-Known Member
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    You are all ignoring the aspect of autophagy that also kicks in when you are calorie deficient. I am positive that this plays a big part of the reversal/remission by helping some of the pancreatic cells repair and start functioning again.
    It worked for me and allows me to carry out a normal eating lifestyle now. Although I have worked out my body really cannot handle fructose in any quantity as it triggers an auto-immune response but glucose is fine. Once this immune response kicks in (pain in my knuckles etc) a couple of days fasting fixes it and stops the joint stiffness.
     
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  13. Fleegle

    Fleegle Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    I don't think we have enough data.
    If their diet is now rich in carbs (I know, why would they) with deserts, rice, pasta and they are maintaining that level that might be considered remission. Where as for me - if I did LC diet and got to that level I would not consider that to be remission but control through eating.

    Each to their own I know - but I would be happy if my outcome were the same - and we will know in March.
     
  14. Salvia

    Salvia Prediabetes · Well-Known Member

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    Good points andcol; not ignoring it exactly, just didn't know about it (or if I have read it, I've forgotten). Would something like intermittent fasting, 5:2, one meal a day or similar achieve the desired result? You mention fasting helps your control on the occasions when you need it. Do you feel that the long-term calorie reduction is required to kick-start cell repair, before moving onto maintenance / mend-it, on an as-and-when basis. Or there again, is that somthing that depends on individual responses.
     
  15. Mbaker

    Mbaker Type 2 (in remission!) · Well-Known Member

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    They need to show what the maintenance phase is like. I am disappointed that they didn't run a real food version side by side (like the blood sugar diet), as you can make circa 800 calories per day look attractive, but sachets might be hard for Jane and Joe public; I get that Prof Taylor wants exact measurements. I would like the data on metabolic rates before and after, food intake after. But on the whole I am happy that the general measurement had nothing to do with drugs.
     
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  16. ickihun

    ickihun Type 2 · Master

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    I agree. I too believe too simple an answer to a complicated disease. Fung more intelligent than Taylor due to his open-mindedness.
    Thinking outside the box will find the cure not old reruns from an old-fashioned attitude. Very typical of the north-east, I'm afraid. I say that with a heavy heart, but its true. (I'm from Sunderland, near Newcastle but matured in London and spent 22yrs before returning for my children to get basic grounding which i found lacking in London.)
     
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  17. himtoo

    himtoo Type 1 · Well-Known Member
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    I think your post above hits the nail on the head- joe public probably won't sign up for a sachet diet ( nor would I expect them to )

    but showing a pathway for change ( low calorie kickstart followed by a LCHF lifestyle could be a winner )


    it is having an open mind to change that is most important ( i had 20 YEARS of a fixed diet -- yes YEARS !! )
    so this last couple of years doing lower moderate carb and higher fat as a type 1 is a real eye opener ------

    remember the target audience for type 2 is mostly older and more set in there ways people and need more gentle persuasion to make changes

    so hail to the DCUK forum for that !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
     
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  18. ickihun

    ickihun Type 2 · Master

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    Personally i wouldnt do these form of diets. Low carb works so why starve yourself without help.
    They must have really felt low and punishing themselves because theyve been told its their own fault! Very very sad way to treat a patient, i feel.

    I did my own form of ND when i was 14-15yrs old.(1985-1986) I lost 7st and yes i did it for more than 5mths and far longer than 8weeks.
    It took approx 2yrs to start adding weight again due to undiagnosed diabetes or prediabetes. IR for sure as periods only every 8-9mths and infertility til metformin 14-17yrs later after suffering severe weight gain and bell's palsy and pcos.
    Of course i was totally ignorant of TYPE2 and IR and PCOS.
    I'm told i may have another auto-immune condition called fibromyalgia. Bell's palsy at the time i had a flare-up it was unknown why it occured, now auto-immune, most likely.
    It just gets curiouser and curiouser! For me.
    More weight i lose, more health problems rear their nasty heads. :(
     
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  19. ickihun

    ickihun Type 2 · Master

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    Agree totally.
     
  20. woodywhippet61

    woodywhippet61 Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    BUT the bad news is that the bad dietary advice is going to continue i.e. thou shalt eat carbs. Which for many people will be very, very difficult to do in moderation due to carb cravings and carb addiction. So they will eat 'normally' and they will put on weight and they will be blamed for getting their T2 back. It's just like a weight loss diet. So they'll then have to BUY the shakes etc. It's Weight Watchers and Slimming World all over again. There will be yo yo diabetics.

    Forgot to say not to mention which company is going to make lots of money from selling shakes.
     
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