Completely Confused Mess About Diet

[Energize]

@Rachox
Snap!!! Great minds think alike

 

[Resurgam]

The fasting is interesting, another thing Desmond told me was not to miss any meals under any circumstances and even added that if we could control what we eat, grazing all day is the best form of diet as it stops your sugar levels going up and down.

Well that is not wrong - it raises your blood glucose and keeps it high - but it is the worst situation you could be in.
I eat early and late and have about 10 hours in between with only a couple of cups of coffee (with cream).

 

[briped]

The things I really cant stand are coconut (not allergic, but taste makes me feel sick), any dried fruit, dates, prunes and figs.

You're in luck then. It's best to steer clear of dried fruits, or fresh for that matter, anyway. They contain lots of carbs.

 

[daisy1]

@Ojustaboo

Hello and welcome to the Forum Here is the Basic Information we give to new members and I hope you will find it useful. Ask as many questions as you like and someone will be able to help.

BASIC INFORMATION FOR NEW MEMBERS

Diabetes is the general term to describe people who have blood that is sweeter than normal. A number of different types of diabetes exist.

A diagnosis of diabetes tends to be a big shock for most of us. It’s far from the end of the world though and on this forum you'll find well over 235,000 people who are demonstrating this.

On the forum we have found that with the number of new people being diagnosed with diabetes each day, sometimes the NHS is not being able to give all the advice it would perhaps like to deliver - particularly with regards to people with type 2 diabetes.

The role of carbohydrate

Carbohydrates are a factor in diabetes because they ultimately break down into sugar (glucose) within our blood. We then need enough insulin to either convert the blood sugar into energy for our body, or to store the blood sugar as body fat.

If the amount of carbohydrate we take in is more than our body’s own (or injected) insulin can cope with, then our blood sugar will rise.

The bad news

Research indicates that raised blood sugar levels over a period of years can lead to organ damage, commonly referred to as diabetic complications.

The good news

People on the forum here have shown that there is plenty of opportunity to keep blood sugar levels from going too high. It’s a daily task but it’s within our reach and it’s well worth the effort.

Controlling your carbs

The info below is primarily aimed at people with type 2 diabetes, however, it may also be of benefit for other types of diabetes as well.

There are two approaches to controlling your carbs:

• Reduce your carbohydrate intake
• Choose ‘better’ carbohydrates

Reduce your carbohydrates

A large number of people on this forum have chosen to reduce the amount of carbohydrates they eat as they have found this to be an effective way of improving (lowering) their blood sugar levels.

The carbohydrates which tend to have the most pronounced effect on blood sugar levels tend to be starchy carbohydrates such as rice, pasta, bread, potatoes and similar root vegetables, flour based products (pastry, cakes, biscuits, battered food etc) and certain fruits.

Choosing better carbohydrates

The low glycaemic index diet is often favoured by healthcare professionals but some people with diabetes find that low GI does not help their blood sugar enough and may wish to cut out these foods altogether.

Read more on carbohydrates and diabetes.

Over 145,000 people have taken part in the Low Carb Program - a 10 week structured education course that is helping people lose weight and reduce medication dependency by explaining the science behind carbs, insulin and GI.

Eating what works for you

Different people respond differently to different types of food. What works for one person may not work so well for another. The best way to see which foods are working for you is to test your blood sugar with a glucose meter.

To be able to see what effect a particular type of food or meal has on your blood sugar is to do a test before the meal and then test after the meal. A test 2 hours after the meal gives a good idea of how your body has reacted to the meal.

The blood sugar ranges recommended by NICE are as follows:

Blood glucose ranges for type 2 diabetes

• Before meals: 4 to 7 mmol/l
• 2 hours after meals: under 8.5 mmol/l

Blood glucose ranges for type 1 diabetes (adults)

• Before meals: 4 to 7 mmol/l
• 2 hours after meals: under 9 mmol/l

Blood glucose ranges for type 1 diabetes (children)

• Before meals: 4 to 8 mmol/l
• 2 hours after meals: under 10 mmol/l

However, those that are able to, may wish to keep blood sugar levels below the NICE after meal targets.

Access to blood glucose test strips

The NICE guidelines suggest that people newly diagnosed with type 2 diabetes should be offered:

• structured education to every person and/or their carer at and around the time of diagnosis, with annual reinforcement and review
• self-monitoring of plasma glucose to a person newly diagnosed with type 2 diabetes only as an integral part of his or her self-management education

Therefore both structured education and self-monitoring of blood glucose should be offered to people with type 2 diabetes. Read more on getting access to blood glucose testing supplies.

You may also be interested to read questions to ask at a diabetic clinic.

Note: This post has been edited from Sue/Ken's post to include up to date information.
Take part in Diabetes.co.uk digital education programs and improve your understanding. Most of these are free.

• Low Carb Program - it's made front-page news of the New Scientist and The Times. Developed with 20,000 people with type 2 diabetes; 96% of people who take part recommend it... find out why
  
  
• Hypo Program - improve your understanding of hypos. There's a version for people with diabetes, parents/guardians of children with type 1, children with type 1 diabetes, teachers and HCPs.
  

 

[Smallbrit]

I have a very different story to yours. However, just wanted say well done for realising that you've had tons conflicting advice and for continuing to look for a solution instead of just following it all blindly and it turning into a spiral of more and more problems.

You’ve had lots of excellent advice here so hope it helps for you. I’ve had the luck of a very supportive, if somewhat baffled, GP who knows that carb counting and eating/experimenting what foods have what kind of response shown on a glucose meter is successful. He is just sceptical it is a sustainable, long term thing to not eat bread/cereal/pasta/potatoes/rice. Oddly enough, I’m generally happy to cut those out for most of my eating. There’s a lot of delicious food still left to eat.

 

[colinsway]

"I also have to see my GP fairly regularly, she's going to moan at me not seeing their dietitian, neither will approve of low carb high fat, both go on about a balanced diet, plate split into veg, carbs etc."


Hi,
Yes, been there! Include Booze & Night shift for a perfect storm.
Seriously, I WAS where you are, 5 years ago. After my AA group got me sober, the real work began.
This is life & death stuff! My journey in brief, but change takes time.
1 - Got out from under the chemical cosh.....the GP was killing me. Read/learn/RECORD, become expert in what works.
2 - No such thing as an essential Carbohydrate - reduced ALL as far as possible.
3 - Bread was causing issues....Cured!Now only use as a special treat!
4 - Milk was causing issues...Sinus/Joint pain/SLEEP...Cured! Goats milk? Butter/Cheese is OK thankfully.
5 - Cheap meat base for fewer meals, plenty of good fat, anything else optional. Dietdoctor.com for free info.
6 - Just moving towards MEAT/FAT resolved my depression & pre diabetes & getting off pills.
Then on to fix everything else including weight...AFTER I stopped feeling like S**T.
Feel free to PM for detail, good luck with the recovery.

 

[Ojustaboo]

Been an interesting day wading through everything

Have weighed myself and I am 120kg which was a nice surprise.

If I order the codefree kit, do I need anything else?

I presume I use a new lancet each time, so presuming I do it before meals and 2 hrs after, that's 6 strips and 6 lancets a day?

If I'm correct, I need to order additional strips and additional lancets only?

I notice while 72% give it great reviews, 8% (178 people) don't, their main complaint being inaccurate readings,

for example

"my readings this morning (one immediately after the other) varied from 7.0 to 13.7! "

and another says

" my readings were very erratic. I had a fasting reading of 7.5, 6.7 and 6.3 all taken in quick succession from the same prick. There is no comeback with the company, the product is not fit for purpose. Do further research and buy another monitor, there are plenty of negative reviews about this product on diabetes forums."

I also notice the same company offers delivery by Thursday for £14.75 for a Prime member, or if I go to their amazon store, for non prime members, it's only £12.99 with free delivery and they will deliver by Wednesday/Thursday (11/12th July)

Do I also need to order Ketone test strips for this diet?

Many thanks

Looking forward to egg and bacon for breakfast

 

[NoCrbs4Me]

I think the majority of people only change to a new lancet occasionally. Others use a new one for every test.

Handheld glucometers are really only accurate to plus/minus 15% and you'll get an occasional wonky result regardless of what machine you use - you just need to retest if you think a result is way off. Since you're self-funding you might as well get the most economical one.

You don't need to test your ketone level.

 

[Rachox]

Been an interesting day wading through everything

Have weighed myself and I am 120kg which was a nice surprise.

If I order the codefree kit, do I need anything else?

I presume I use a new lancet each time, so presuming I do it before meals and 2 hrs after, that's 6 strips and 6 lancets a day?

If I'm correct, I need to order additional strips and additional lancets only?

I notice while 72% give it great reviews, 8% (178 people) don't, their main complaint being inaccurate readings,

for example

"my readings this morning (one immediately after the other) varied from 7.0 to 13.7! "

and another says

" my readings were very erratic. I had a fasting reading of 7.5, 6.7 and 6.3 all taken in quick succession from the same prick. There is no comeback with the company, the product is not fit for purpose. Do further research and buy another monitor, there are plenty of negative reviews about this product on diabetes forums."

I also notice the same company offers delivery by Thursday for £14.75 for a Prime member, or if I go to their amazon store, for non prime members, it's only £12.99 with free delivery and they will deliver by Wednesday/Thursday (11/12th July)

Do I also need to order Ketone test strips for this diet?

Many thanks

Looking forward to egg and bacon for breakfast

It’s unfortunate that Home Health is still out of stock of the Code Free as their price is £12.89 but their delivery is a few days if you don’t want to pay extra.
You’ll need to order extra strips, but I’d get them from Home Health using the discount codes I quoted further up this thread to get them cheaper.
I change my lancet once a day as it makes my fingers sore if I use them longer, I suppose it depends how tough your fingers are!

Edit to add, as @NoCrbs4Me says the monitors have to comply to certain tolerances and they all give the odd dodgy reading occasionally. I’ve been using my Code Free for over a year now and am happy with it, except that it keeps forgetting the time! That doesn’t bother me as I put my readings straight in the MySugr app so I get a record of the time there.

 

[briped]

If I'm correct, I need to order additional strips and additional lancets only?

I haven't checked, but I think I us at least 50 strips before I give myself a new lancet. Congratulations on your weight loss. I'm so much more comfy when I've lost a bit of weight, but I've discovered that my BG level doesn't necessarily have much to do with how much I weigh. It came crashing down only a week or so after starting Low Carb, so there's something to look forward to

 

[Ojustaboo]

Just about to order my Codefree. I presume I want the mmol/L rather than the mg/dL?

Many thanks

 

[Smallbrit]

Yep, the mmol/L is the correct one.

 

[Ojustaboo]

I emailed Home Health to ask when they are getting them back in stock and they replied that they had loads.

So I tried to order and it wouldn't let me as it was out of stock

I phoned up, got through to the same person that emailed me, he tried, appologised, said somethings wrong with their website and he will get it fixed in an hour or so.

So will place my order very very soon

 

[bulkbiker]

I emailed Home Health to ask when they are getting them back in stock and they replied that they had loads.

So I tried to order and it wouldn't let me as it was out of stock

I phoned up, got through to the same person that emailed me, he tried, appologised, said somethings wrong with their website and he will get it fixed in an hour or so.

So will place my order very very soon

I have aways found them very helpful when I have contacted them and they usually will take an order over the phone..

 

[KeithT 2]

Hi all. New here, please bare with me.

At the moment I am a confused mess as to what sort of diet to follow. I'm a man who weighs about 125kg (19 1/2 stone) and am 54.

Bearing in mind at 34 I also weighed about this and have spent the last 20 years on and off trying every single diet under the sun, and while I can loose a stone or two very very quickly on almost any diet, I can put it back on extremely fast as soon as I stop following one.

I was diagnosed with Type 2 a couple of weeks before Christmas 2017 but also have numerous other health issues and haven't been able to work for a long time now. I take Metformin 3 times a day.

Some of these are CFS/ME, chronic back pain, sleep problems due to pain and depression, and any sort of stress physically exhausts me (part of my CFS/ME), plus a few other problems.

I'm also in a lot of debt (due to health issues) and get zero benefits (long story).

So the reality is, I can stick to any diet for a few days, then I get a letter/email from one of my many creditors or debt collection agency, by the time I sort that out, I'm so stressed and tired that I think "whats the point in living if I'm getting this **** every day and I cant enjoy myself, sod it" and eat stuff I shouldn't eat, and drink what I shouldn't drink, just as a way of coping.

That's the brief outline of my health.

A few weeks before I was diagnosed, he GP sent me to their in house dietitian who I was seeing every two weeks. SHe doesn't want me to follow any diet plan as such, just record what I eat, try to eat things that are low fat (green labels on food) and for instance suggested something like

Poridge for breakfast

Omlett of some kind made with 3 egg whites but only 1 yolk

Two potatoes that each fit in the palm of my hand, veg and whatever, but try to limit red meat to two or three times max a week.

And over time I lost 1/2 stone, put it back on, lost it again and now must have put it back on.

My GP sent me to a diabetic course called Desmond which I had in March, and while I found it interesting and useful, as far as diet goes, I'm not too sure.

Desmond told me to look at the Carbs on any item of food, divide that by 3, that roughly give the sugar carb amount, and keep the result under 70 a day

When I started doing this on the diet sheet my dietitian wanted me to fill out, she was totally confused, admitted she knows nothing about what Desmond teach, but also commented that instead of dividing the carbs by three and not exceeding 70, wouldn't it be easier to not divide and not go over 210.

I stopped going to her a couple of months ago due to me being really down and depressed, I could go back at any time, but I know she wont/doesn't understand/ doesn't agree with the diets I've been reading and watching about regarding Type 2, she is really friendly and supportive though..

I understand that Desmond is talking about the carbs turning into sugar, but it's still sort of confusing.

Desomnd say I can eat 70 carbs of sugar a day (210 total carbs in food divided by 3)

Looking at the internet, it appears 1 gram of sugar = 1 carb
It also appears 1 teaspoon of sugar = 4 grams of sugar (or 4 carbs)

So 70 divided by 4 mean s that according to Desomnd I can eat 17.5 teaspoons of sugar a day.


So I finish my second week at Desmond, get home, read the BBC news page and the first thing that catches my eye is an article that says a blueberry muffin contains 8 teaspoons of sugar when the recommended intake for adults is 7.

So BBC say 7 max, Desmond say 17.5, I realise Desmond are talking about carbs turning into sugar, but this and everything else doesn't help.


Now I come to diet.

My blood pressure is normally fine despite my weight.

Last time I had a check, HbA1c was 55, and my blood pressure was 135/72

I cant remember how much, but my liver levels were also raised

My Cholesterol is OK now but I am on tablets

I need to get into gear, take my diet seriously, and stick to it.

So I start hunting for advice. I watch the recent thing on the TV where they feed patients horrible looking shakes for 8 weeks and think NO

I read this forum and they seem to recommend a low carb diet (haven't yet worked out how low yours is compared to what Desmond told me).

While I appreciate people need to make a living and normally have no qualm about paying for things, I have zero money at the moment, cant even afford to pay creditors £1 a month token payment, so it's kind of annoying coming to a diabetes forum for support and having to pay to get access to the diet they are pushing (but do understand we cant expect people to work for nothing).

I also see on this forum, a lot of support for low carb high fat (a sort of Atkins?) diets.

One of the many problems I have with diets over the years is no matter how many people tell me once my pallet gets used to abc, I will stop craving for xyz, it simply isn't like that for me. I could follow a vegetarian diet for 3 years and would still dream of the day I can have a pork pie or chip shop fish and chips.

I like the taste of fatty food. A joint of meat cooked with no fat on is flavourless.

And I read one site that says I don't have to worry about cholesterol in egg yolks at the same time my dietitian is telling me to limit the yolks to 1 due to cholesterol.

Etc etc etc, I hope you can see why I'm a confused mess.

Part of me thinks low carb high fat will suit me very very well. But if I've already got a bit of a fatty liver (I think the GP mentioned fats) wouldn't that likely cause me more harm?

I also have to see my GP fairly regularly, she's going to moan at me not seeing their dietitian, neither will approve of low carb high fat, both go on about a balanced diet, plate split into veg, carbs etc.

Any ideas what I should try next as it's 8 months since I was diagnosed and I probably haven't lost an ounce?

Many thanks for your time.

Welcome to the group. I hate the word diet. It assumes that one is grossly overweight and desperately in need of losing it. I prefer to call such things "Eating Plans" Most of us diabetics can well do with shedding a few pounds perhaps (I know I needed to) and the way forward is not so much by dieting but by an honest reappraisal of what foods are causing your high BG numbers and keeping you from achieving your ideal weight, and what you are prepared to do about it. The first step is to look at what you are eating and drinking. I found certain foods push my BG sky high whilst similar foods don't. For instance: potatoes, rice and pasta are a nightmare for me. Root vegetables like parsnips, carrots and beetroot have minimal effect. I eat my own homemade bread but limit myself to two slices a day usually for lunch. I eat a small amount of carbohydrate for breakfast and lunch and no carbs after that. Main meals consist of meat (I love fatty meats) steak, roast beef lamb, chicken, pork spare ribs, fish etc, etc., with green vegetables and maybe roast parsnips or salad. If I have a thin crust pizza we have main meals at lunch time. Breakfast I have porridge in the winter with fruit and Greek yogurt. and the rest of the year 19/20 bite size shreddies with fruit and Greek yogurt. Since going on this eating plan I have lost a stone in weight and my fasting and before bed BG numbers rarely go above 6.5 but mostly they are between 4.7 and 5.2. Before my eating plan my before bed numbers were averaging 7.5 - 11 and my fasting numbers were 7 - 7.5. Check your blood regularly and analyse the foods you eat for the day and work out which it was that caused high numbers. That way you can work out the best eating plan for you. Good luck

 

[NaomiT]

I'm four weeks since diagnosis and one week until I see the specialist nurse, when they'll decide what course of treatment to take. I watched 'The Truth About Carbs' and read up on the glycemic index, then quit all processed carbs (I do keep a load of low gi bread from Lidl sliced in the freezer for those moments when I miss it too much) and all sugar. I stick to lower sugar fruits, such as strawberries and watermelon and have smoothies made with frozen berries yogurt, nut milk and small amount of raw oats. I carry a tub of unsalted nuts for those hungry moments. I try to avoid root veg, with the exception of carrots. I'm drinking 1-2 standard coffees and 2ltrs of water a day. So far, I have lost almost a stone, I'm very rarely hungry, my energy has leveled out and my skin has never ever been clearer. I'm find 'diet plans' laborious to follow, so I Google a lot and read on here for ideas. I'm learning fast how even 'healthy' options in shops are full of processed ****. Main advice: plan ahead. If I prep breakfast ingredients and make lunch the night before, I'm much less inclined to 'cheat'. Next step, assuming the outcome with the nurse is positive is exercise. I don't move enough. Hope this helps.

 

[Ojustaboo]

I have aways found them very helpful when I have contacted them and they usually will take an order over the phone..

Didn't think of asking to take it over the phone.

Anyway it's fixed now and has been ordered.

 

[Ojustaboo]

I'm four weeks since diagnosis and one week until I see the specialist nurse, when they'll decide what course of treatment to take. I watched 'The Truth About Carbs' and read up on the glycemic index, then quit all processed carbs (I do keep a load of low gi bread from Lidl sliced in the freezer for those moments when I miss it too much) and all sugar. I stick to lower sugar fruits, such as strawberries and watermelon and have smoothies made with frozen berries yogurt, nut milk and small amount of raw oats. I carry a tub of unsalted nuts for those hungry moments. I try to avoid root veg, with the exception of carrots. I'm drinking 1-2 standard coffees and 2ltrs of water a day. So far, I have lost almost a stone, I'm very rarely hungry, my energy has leveled out and my skin has never ever been clearer. I'm find 'diet plans' laborious to follow, so I Google a lot and read on here for ideas. I'm learning fast how even 'healthy' options in shops are full of processed ****. Main advice: plan ahead. If I prep breakfast ingredients and make lunch the night before, I'm much less inclined to 'cheat'. Next step, assuming the outcome with the nurse is positive is exercise. I don't move enough. Hope this helps.

Thanks Naomi. Welcome to the group. I've only been here a few days and wish I'd come here months ago.

Congratulations on the weight loss.

I think planing ahead is probably what I will need to do.

Thanks

 

[Norfolkmell]

Hi
Don't know where you live but once you have your meter ask your GP to prescribe the test strips and lancets. My GP had no problems as it's an integral part of monitoring your blood glucose and without testing when you've eaten different things how do you know what you can tolerate or not? My GP told me about LCHF, since diagnosis two years ago I've only seen him every couple of months and just seen the diabetes nurse once a year to get weighed and have my feet checked, blood checked every three months ( only if the nurse can get it out of my hand in under two goes, most times they give up) no other input apart from these forums and DiabetesUK.
I don't stick 100% to LCHF probably 80/20 but have lost a stone and a half so far would probably lose more if I was stricter but I'm happy and so is my GP.

 

[TriciaWs]

First although some people here didn't find the lowcarbprogram helpful I have - and the good news is that you can now get it 'prescribed' by your GP in England. I don't know anyone who's tried that yet but I assume it means you don't have to pay (it's a one off fee, then you are a member for life).
Apart from the online food diary there are recipes, advice, support, ...

And low carb is definitely the way - all the research shows it works for both diabetes remission/improvement and for better cholesterol and blood fat levels. One things to note is that you need your GP to check your metformin as most people find they need to reduce the level of drugs as they get established on this.

Eggs - the advice to restrict eggs was overturned ages ago. They do not raise blood fats.
Blood sugar and carbs - the amount of carbs you eat is not the same as the amount of pure sugar. Milk contains carbs, vegetables contain carbs (some a lot more than others, eg potatoes), some fruits are better than others and most programmes advise berry fruits.
Oats have a lot of carbs, as does bread/rice/etc.

I've been diagnosed 6 weeks, been on low (not very low) carbs since then and I'm controlling it just by diet. I love chocolate and sugary things but I really want to avoid any more drugs (I'm on drugs for fibromylgia, migraine, asthma, arthritis, allergic rhinitis, plus prescribed vit B and D) and the diabetic complications.
By week 2 my fasting blood was 5.2 and post breakfast 7.8. My fasting blood various between 5.1 and 5.3 now. Daytime is a max of 7.7.