Type 2 Carbs And The Doctor/dn

Dr Snoddy

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,325
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Diet only
Dislikes
Trolls
I am just so grateful that I found this forum and the discussion of possible alternative approaches to treating T2. Very little of what I was told about diet by the GP and DN made any sense at all. (Some of the other advice re feet, eyes, exercise did!). Only the advice of a young recently-trained dietician about low carb diets was helpful. I attended the DESMOND course and still have the carb-laden recipe booklets supplied by the DN.
I come from a country that does not have the wonderful institution that is the NHS. I am very concerned about using NHS-funded resources unnecessarily and feel that it is my responsibility to at least try a dietary and exercised based approach to controlling blood glucose levels before becoming reliant on drugs. Also I then have somewhere to go treatment-wise should this approach begin to fail.
 

jillsymes66

Well-Known Member
Messages
63
Type of diabetes
Type 1
Treatment type
Insulin
Dislikes
Rude ignorant people
My DN told me well done, you're setting a good example. Then told me never to go to bed with BM reading lower that 7. ***!!
I haven't been out of 4's or 5's since my second week of keto and I'm not changing now.
 

bulkbiker

BANNED
Messages
19,576
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Diet only
Nicely put @britishpub exactly mirroring the behaviour they accuse HCPs of
Not really.. we are coming from an informed perspective as we both have Type 2 and have controlled/reversed/put into remission what ever you want to label it. The HCP is simply parroting what they were told between 10 and 40 years ago.
Also I'm sorry but once you have seen the benefits of this way of eating it seems almost criminal not to spread the word. If that means I have to upset a few ill informed HCP's along the way then I'm afraid that is a risk I am willing to take.
 

Daibell

Master
Messages
12,642
Type of diabetes
LADA
Treatment type
Insulin
Not really.. we are coming from an informed perspective as we both have Type 2 and have controlled/reversed/put into remission what ever you want to label it. The HCP is simply parroting what they were told between 10 and 40 years ago.
Also I'm sorry but once you have seen the benefits of this way of eating it seems almost criminal not to spread the word. If that means I have to upset a few ill informed HCP's along the way then I'm afraid that is a risk I am willing to take.
It not only works for most of us but is based on good science as well I.e. that carbs are simply converted to glucose in the stomach whereas fats have a much more complex metabolic route with energy being used to do just that. Fat has a much lower effect on BS than carbs and I've not yet come across any research evidence that fat has any other noticeable downside for us. Salt is not an issue. Much of this comes from the old chestnut of clogged arteries caused by Sat fat which we know is mainly caused by the liver not by what you eat. I gather before the 2nd World War it was known that carbs needed to kept down if you had diabetes but some bright spark researcher in the 60s declared otherwise (I have a copy of the article somewhere) and the NHS and PHE have gone down that track ever since in Group-think mode.
 

Debandez

Well-Known Member
Messages
4,019
Type of diabetes
Type 2 (in remission!)
Treatment type
Diet only
I recently went to my gp. Whilst there I discussed my t2d which I got into remission within 6 months thanks to Dr Google and finding this amazing forum. I told him I had done it by going LCHF (and duck!). Apparently I could have had the same results by going low cal/low fat he said. I presumed from this sweeping statement be had seen this with his own eyes and pt results. So I asked my surgery for stats. Their reply was that they have only ever seen post bariatric surgery patients put theirs into remission/reverse.

Never been one to just sit there smiling sweetly. I feel so mad. They should be giving pts the choice. But they seem unaware of the benefits to LCHF woe - they don't see the results. Their advice just leads to the disease being progressive. They told me that in my initial appointment. It's a progressive disease. They have seen no evidence otherwise. So I'm getting as many stats together as possible at the moment. Building a file go back to my Dr. Hard evidence in Black and white staring them in the face. I just hope he doesn't thrust his 'don't confuse Google with my medical degree' mug at me again as this time I will be ready!
 
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Debandez

Well-Known Member
Messages
4,019
Type of diabetes
Type 2 (in remission!)
Treatment type
Diet only
I'm sorry but anecdotally from people I have met recently I do not think is the case at all.
Yes for acute problems the NHS is great. I would not want to be anywhere else with a broken leg. But (and I'm afraid it is a big but) for the most part treatment of chronic conditions is going downhill. Far too much prescription before looking at nutrition and lifestyle and I think a lot of it is down to ignorance and a lack of curiosity from the majority of HCP's. There will always be notable exceptions but I fear that they are becoming exactly that "exceptions" rather than the norm.

Absolutely. The first question when a patient comes through the door should be 'So what do you eat?'
 

MikeyJ

Well-Known Member
Messages
72
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Tablets (oral)
Not really.. we are coming from an informed perspective as we both have Type 2 and have controlled/reversed/put into remission what ever you want to label it. The HCP is simply parroting what they were told between 10 and 40 years ago.
Also I'm sorry but once you have seen the benefits of this way of eating it seems almost criminal not to spread the word. If that means I have to upset a few ill informed HCP's along the way then I'm afraid that is a risk I am willing to take.
Ok @bulkbiker I just think the positive message of Low Carb goes further without the negative confrontational approach to HCPs and others who wish to try different methods but that's just my view.
 

bulkbiker

BANNED
Messages
19,576
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Diet only
Ok @bulkbiker I just think the positive message of Low Carb goes further without the negative confrontational approach to HCPs and others who wish to try different methods but that's just my view.
Fine but.. and again its a big but.. when HCP's refuse to be open minded about LCHF and indeed refuse to even mention it then what are we supposed to do? Condemn people to amputations, blindness and needless medication or do our best to spread the word far and wide? Sometimes you have to be confrontational if we are all meek and mild then I'm afraid nothing will change.
 

Debandez

Well-Known Member
Messages
4,019
Type of diabetes
Type 2 (in remission!)
Treatment type
Diet only
I've just re-read the Diabetes booklet given to me by an earlier DN in 2005 and produced by East & North Herts NHS Trust. It recommends having Starchy carbs with every meal and keeping fats down (as well as sugar and salt). Many of us know from experience including me that that would have sent BS thru the roof as I was on tablets at the time and struggling. Are you suggesting I should have actually followed that foolish advice? My current and previous DNs are brilliant and fortunately have not tried to give me any diet advice as they would have been pressured to follow NHS/PHE guidance.
My booklets given to me in December 17 are photocopies of yours I think.
 

Debandez

Well-Known Member
Messages
4,019
Type of diabetes
Type 2 (in remission!)
Treatment type
Diet only
Hi Zand,
I can't imagine that your doctor has accused you if lying. More likely they may have thought that in some aspect you missed something from the diet. Besides, I think that you should have asked to consult a dietician.
As for the doctor, if you are dissatisfied, you have the right to change them. One doctor does not represent the entire body of doctors.
Have you heard of the Patients Rights?

You are right, look wherever possible. I do. But please, follow the professionals. There are masses of unprofessional advise. Some may work with some people, some not. We are all different. Even our types are different.

Has it ever crossed your mind that the lack of improvement is simply due to the progress of the condition and that you may have to move ahead with treatment.

You give the impression that diabetes is a competition. It is not. It is strictly individual and comparisons sometimes can backfire. It is more important to look at your needs and how you want to live. Then you can discuss it with your hcp. Then you agree your goals, using their knowledge and plan how to achieve them.

I'm not saying that you should do only what the NHS says. Doctors are available privately too. What I am saying is that only professionals can advise you. Otherwise you could become a client of Gwineth Paltrow or someone like her. Or else it is waste of the valuable time of doctors already pressed hard to meet the needs of the population.

The comment about the epilepsy was not in any connection with diabetes but a comment on someone else posting.
One simple tool backs up the way of eating I have chosen to follow. My meter.
 

Debandez

Well-Known Member
Messages
4,019
Type of diabetes
Type 2 (in remission!)
Treatment type
Diet only
@Sani Thomas I agree with you on the disrespect and the bullying it seems to be a regular thing on this forum. I am not trying to start anything here but it's the truth, if one doesn't agree with the majority, one is our castered. Simple as that. I'm sorry you have been treated like that. Wishing you well as we all have different ways of helping ourselves and so far i don't believe there are any experts in here, just people who are learning. Hopefully by listening to others as well.
Where is the disagree button when you need it!
 

MikeyJ

Well-Known Member
Messages
72
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Tablets (oral)
Fine but.. and again its a big but.. when HCP's refuse to be open minded about LCHF and indeed refuse to even mention it then what are we supposed to do? Condemn people to amputations, blindness and needless medication or do our best to spread the word far and wide? Sometimes you have to be confrontational if we are all meek and mild then I'm afraid nothing will change.
Not a case of meek and mild it's a case of effective communication, shouting a mantra in peoples faces may not work where positive selling of benefits does. I guess its a case of different strokes for different folks but the goal is a shared one.
 
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Debandez

Well-Known Member
Messages
4,019
Type of diabetes
Type 2 (in remission!)
Treatment type
Diet only
Ok @bulkbiker I just think the positive message of Low Carb goes further without the negative confrontational approach to HCPs and others who wish to try different methods but that's just my view.
When up against a brick wall you tend to have to shout a little to get your point a across.
 

Concordjan

Well-Known Member
Messages
234
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Tablets (oral)
Dislikes
Not very good on computers!
Hi. It's possible that you are actually a late onset T1? It can be difficult to diagnose the difference other than measuring your natural insulin level such as the c-peptide test. At the end of the day, as long as you receive the right treatment which I didn't for a while then the actual diagnosis doesn't matter too much but it does mess up the statistics and research data

I’ve had type 2 for 11 years now and pancreas must still be working to a certain extent as not on insulin. I think lada or type 1.5, the pancreas packs up quicker. My theory is that there are 2 types of type 2. Overweight must be insulin resistant and slim/normal not producing enough for a normal carb diet. Probably rubbish and unless we all have c-peptide test won’t know.
 
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Debandez

Well-Known Member
Messages
4,019
Type of diabetes
Type 2 (in remission!)
Treatment type
Diet only
Fine but.. and again its a big but.. when HCP's refuse to be open minded about LCHF and indeed refuse to even mention it then what are we supposed to do? Condemn people to amputations, blindness and needless medication or do our best to spread the word far and wide? Sometimes you have to be confrontational if we are all meek and mild then I'm afraid nothing will change.
Without the suffragets shouting out loud things would be so different.
 

zand

Master
Messages
10,784
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Diet only
@Sani Thomas

Could you maybe start a new thread and talk about decent alternatives to LCHF? I would certainly be interested in it. I have tried most things that have been recommended to me (just don't ask me to eat eggs, I can't bear them lol) and LCHF (and now keto) is the only thing that has helped me to lose weight. I have had years of being nagged to lose weight by various GPs, but none of them could tell me how to do it. They just assumed that I was eating junk and lots of it. That's belittling and is a form of bullying in itself, and this from people who were supposed to be helping me. Coming home in tears after any appointment at my surgery wasn't very helpful I'm afraid. I just wanted them to listen and to hear that I did stick to the very many diets, it wasn't me letting my GP down it was my body not behaving how they thought it should. So I speak out here amongst friends to get it off my chest. Please stick around and help those for whom LCHF doesn't work.

I don't think you realise that you are defending some HCPs who have bullied obese patients and left them feeling like life isn't worth living. That has to be wrong surely?

Take a step back and look at the problem from the other side. You are rightly defending your employer, good on you! But try to imagine the frustration that I and others have felt when we have asked our HCPs for help time and time again and none was forthcoming.

I post here to help others who may be in the same position I was in a few years back. It would be good if you could do the same.

Edited by moderator to remove a quote from a post which has been deleted.
 
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Concordjan

Well-Known Member
Messages
234
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Tablets (oral)
Dislikes
Not very good on computers!
Going back to the original comment. I have always told my doctors or dn exactly what I’ve been doing to change things. Told them by how much I’ve reduced my meds etc. and how. I also mentioned last time I saw my doc that I was disappointed that the advice I had been given 11 years ago hadn’t been updated with the knowledge about reducing carbs. She said she would bring that up at the next practice meeting and make sure all type 2s were told about carbs and not just newly diagnosed. I must admit that this did somewhat restore my faith in the medical team.
 

Brunneria

Guru
Retired Moderator
Messages
21,889
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Diet only
Hi All, as explained above, posts which make public accusations of bullying will be deleted, subject to investigation by the moderation team.

Since a poster ignored this directive, their post has been deleted, and any more such posts will also be deleted.

Any accusations of alleged bullying should be done by hitting the Report button under the post in question, or by email to [email protected]

Everyone is entitled to an opinion. They are not entitled to make public, unsubstantiated accusations, and turn a civil (if heated) discussion into a War Zone.

Once again, I ask people to refresh their knowledge of the forum ethos and rules (link in my signature) and interact with each other in a polite, non-hostile way. Failure to do this will result in thread bans and an escalation to further account sanctions.

There won't be any further warnings.
 
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