Carbohydrates - Food of the Devil?

[hankjam]

About 9 months ago, I could be wrong, there was a thread that used the terms Carbohydrate and Poison. It got pretty (very) heated and was just down to usage, though neither side would accept that.
One man's poison is another man's meat.... (sic).

 

[bulkbiker]

Some more extreme posts that I read do seem to demonise carbs and it’s right that that thinking should be questioned in a quest to arrive at the right balance.

That is because this is a community mostly of people who have been diagnosed with diabetes.
For T2's especially, carbs are not beneficial so yes they are demonised because many of us have found that by reducing our consumption our health has benefitted greatly.
Personally I think they along with seed oils and highly processed food are the main problem with how we eat today and are the main cause of the metabolic diseases that are slowly killing us.

 

[zauberflote]

@bulkbiker I agree with you in relation to adults but do children have different nutritional needs? It would be very difficult to stop completely the eating of pizza, pasta, bread in particular and rice of course in many cultures. I think this might have the result of them going overboard on these foods when they can decide for themselves. As far as children are concerned I believe everything in moderation is probably sensible.

Ahh yes going overboard as adults... my older son complains that his sugar addiction is all my fault because I DIDN’T have candy lying around in bowls as his friends’s moms did. For him, a person who’s got a propensity towards addiction, there is truth to his accusation! I’d rather he eat sugar than the things that one ODs accidentally on, or goes to prison forever (where you’re going to get T2 anyway!) if caught selling, which were in his youthful past...

 

[Robinredbreast]

I pretty much agree with @Listlad. I fully ascribe to the fact that the majority of 'carbs' are harmful to those that cannot tolerate them, ie sweets/crisps/bread/pasta/rice/pastry and that sort of thing and maybe many fruits but I cannot accept that the carbs that come from vegetables are 'the devil'. Yes, a carb is a carb and each individual can decide for themselves, but it seems that some people demonise carbs of ALL types even for those without an intolerance. Breastmilk is jam packed with carbs but babies thrive on it and without this milk, they would die wouldn't they? Is a carrot poisonous?, I don't think so.

Carbs have saved me from a serious hypo.

 

[zauberflote]

@Listlad you’d like my brother. He manages by diet and exercise, as his work does not allow meds for T2 or pre-D, and I doubt if it allows T1 to fly at all due to the hypo issue. He is of the very strong opinion that God made it and said it was good. He eats well at home and moderately well in the air/ports. He avoids sweets like the plague (we invented those uses for the good things).
Edited to add a few words.

 

[Robinredbreast]

I reckon the original question is asking are all carbs harmful for people without an intolerance?

Also this thread is in Fitness, Exercise and Sport and not in a type 2 section.
My elderly dad lived until he was 94 and yes he ate carbs, he didn't have a lot of medical conditions and took a few tablets daily, plus inhalers, neither my mum, who died of heart failure/pneumonia, nor my dad, thankfully didn't have diabetes.

 

[Listlad]

Ahh yes going overboard as adults... my older son complains that his sugar addiction is all my fault because I DIDN’T have candy lying around in bowls as his friends’s moms did. For him, a person who’s got a propensity towards addiction, there is truth to his accusation! I’d rather he eat sugar than the things that one ODs accidentally on, or goes to prison forever (where you’re going to get T2 anyway!) if caught selling, which were in his youthful past...

Yes. You make some excellent points there.

 

[Listlad]

Also this thread is in Fitness, Exercise and Sport and not in a type 2 section.
My elderly dad lived until he was 94 and yes he ate carbs, he didn't have a lot of medical conditions and took a few tablets daily, plus inhalers, neither my mum, who died of heart failure/pneumonia, nor my dad, thankfully didn't have diabetes.

I thought about the correct place to put this question. When posting I wasn’t sure which would be best.

My wife’s grandparents lived till their late nineties. They ate rice in typical quantities.

 

[PenguinMum]

The responsibility of raising a child the stakes are so high and no one gets everything right! You need to teach them right from wrong, kindness, manners, communication, and the list goes on and on. I think your best bet with healthy living is to lead by example in so far as you can. You dont have the energy or time frankly to devote your life to them exclusively nor should you so sometimes they will just have to figure it out. The pressure to get it right is enormous especially where both parents work but even if you just cook and eat together at the weekend you lay down traditions IMHO.

 

[Listlad]

That is because this is a community mostly of people who have been diagnosed with diabetes.

Of course. That makes sense. And those that do not yet have a diabetes problem are not going to sign up for membership in a hurry. But for those in remission, or not for whatever reason clinically diagnosed as diabetic, or for parents of or relatives of those that either have diabetes or might yet end up with diabetes then it is an important consideration. So context and balance is key.

 

[Listlad]

About 9 months ago, I could be wrong, there was a thread that used the terms Carbohydrate and Poison. It got pretty (very) heated and was just down to usage, though neither side would accept that.
One man's poison is another man's meat.... (sic).

I hadn’t seen that. I will take a look.

 

[Diakat]

As this thread seems to now be discussing children, there was also this thread:
https://www.diabetes.co.uk/forum/th...d-carbohydrate-diets-for-t1d-children.122090/

 

[Robinredbreast]

I thought about the correct place to put this question. When posting I wasn’t sure which would be best.

My wife’s grandparents lived till their late nineties. They ate rice in typical quantities.

My parents ate meat, fish, eggs, cereals, roast on a Sunday, so different types of food and being Scottish, we had tatties and mince, pearl barley soup, lentils, my dad ate porridge, with salt and we had salmon sandwiches on a Sunday with cake too, or ice cream and fruit..

 

[Mbaker]

There are a couple of simple arbitrators - the blood glucose monitor and the insulin response. Every test I have seen with trigger foods such as bananas show a spike above the guidelines > 9.0 (always should be tested at 30 mins to start with). I have sort out persons who test and even those under 30 years old get extreme results when carbs are put to the test (starchy carbs). Under 2 weeks ago a young lady on one of the food programs on the box, was over a 9 consuming a packet of crisps. Childhood diabetes rates were virtually non-existent less that 60 years ago. I had a chat with a University today to see if they would front some tests on the responses of different foods with regards to blood glucose (maybe more on this another time).

I have seen Andreas Eenfeldt (diet doctor) response to 2 regular meals, Sarah Halberg's response to red melon - neither of these are diabetics, lots of tests of potatoes, spaghetti over 30 minutes plus for others- all result in numbers the guidelines say are too high. I watched a 28 year old Vegan on YouTube eat some Pizza, again blood glucose over 9.0 and higher fbg the next day.

I think 60 - 80 years ago persons in the UK could comfortably eat Paleo level of carbs (meat and 2 veg) with potato carbs quite easily in at least late 60's. In my view modern carbs in bread, pasta, cereals, cakes and the like are a disgrace, I think these "break" our systems, making healthier carbs a poisonous dosage. The numbers in the States say only circa 30% of the population can cope with the carb intake, I would suggest this is similar anywhere the SAD diet is.

If Kraft was right with his interpretation insulin response categorisations, the numbers with blood glucose dysregulation are overwhelming, and even without his definition our eyes and stats show clearly that carbs in a modern context basically lays down fat and disease; then we see when these types of carbs are removed health and bio markers return to normal-ish - this is not coincidence.

The trouble is carbs are delicious, especially when (purposefully) mixed with fat, the perfect "fat bomb". The franken-carbs have turned us into the only animal which cannot naturally regulate our diet (unless we go non-mainstream).

 

[Mbaker]

My parents ate meat, fish, eggs, cereals, roast on a Sunday, so different types of food and being Scottish, we had tatties and mince, pearl barley soup, lentils, my dad ate porridge, with salt and we had salmon sandwiches on a Sunday with cake too, or ice cream and fruit..

I think "we" can cope with these whole foods, and treats in those amounts. The fats were most likely traditional and probably less than 5 or 6 total meals. Nowadays 80% of the food in supermarkets has added sugar.

 

[Robinredbreast]

I think "we" can cope with these whole foods, and treats in those amounts. The fats were most likely traditional and probably less than 5 or 6 total meals. Nowadays 80% of the food in supermarkets has added sugar.

Yes indeed, the food industry had changed considerably over the years. Me and my sister bought sweets on the way to school, plus there were tuck shops a plenty. A fish supper now and then and a trip to the Wimpy bar was a real treat.

 

[Listlad]

My parents ate meat, fish, eggs, cereals, roast on a Sunday, so different types of food and being Scottish, we had tatties and mince, pearl barley soup, lentils, my dad ate porridge, with salt and we had salmon sandwiches on a Sunday with cake too, or ice cream and fruit..

Tatties and Neeps. Bridies. Lorne sausage....

 

[Listlad]

There are a couple of simple arbitrators - the blood glucose monitor and the insulin response. Every test I have seen with trigger foods such as bananas show a spike above the guidelines > 9.0 (always should be tested at 30 mins to start with). I have sort out persons who test and even those under 30 years old get extreme results when carbs are put to the test (starchy carbs). Under 2 weeks ago a young lady on one of the food programs on the box, was over a 9 consuming a packet of crisps. Childhood diabetes rates were virtually non-existent less that 60 years ago. I had a chat with a University today to see if they would front some tests on the responses of different foods with regards to blood glucose (maybe more on this another time).

I have seen Andreas Eenfeldt (diet doctor) response to 2 regular meals, Sarah Halberg's response to red melon - neither of these are diabetics, lots of tests of potatoes, spaghetti over 30 minutes plus for others- all result in numbers the guidelines say are too high. I watched a 28 year old Vegan on YouTube eat some Pizza, again blood glucose over 9.0 and higher fbg the next day.

I think 60 - 80 years ago persons in the UK could comfortably eat Paleo level of carbs (meat and 2 veg) with potato carbs quite easily in at least late 60's. In my view modern carbs in bread, pasta, cereals, cakes and the like are a disgrace, I think these "break" our systems, making healthier carbs a poisonous dosage. The numbers in the States say only circa 30% of the population can cope with the carb intake, I would suggest this is similar anywhere the SAD diet is.

If Kraft was right with his interpretation insulin response categorisations, the numbers with blood glucose dysregulation are overwhelming, and even without his definition our eyes and stats show clearly that carbs in a modern context basically lays down fat and disease; then we see when these types of carbs are removed health and bio markers return to normal-ish - this is not coincidence.

The trouble is carbs are delicious, especially when (purposefully) mixed with fat, the perfect "fat bomb". The franken-carbs have turned us into the only animal which cannot naturally regulate our diet (unless we go non-mainstream).

We seem to love fat and sweet things.

 

[Listlad]

My parents ate meat, fish, eggs, cereals, roast on a Sunday, so different types of food and being Scottish, we had tatties and mince, pearl barley soup, lentils, my dad ate porridge, with salt and we had salmon sandwiches on a Sunday with cake too, or ice cream and fruit..

That is probably quite close to my own diet when younger.

 

[Robinredbreast]

Tatties and Neeps. Bridies. Lorne sausage....

Square sausages, lovely, but I have to have gluten free now.
When we visited Scotland, my mum always bought a nice lot of sausage and our relatives always brought down Lorne Sausage and lovely Scotch baps too, happy memories.