losing first phase insulin response due to aging

[millenium]

I have tested a few elderlys over 75 years old. All of them seems to have weak first phase insulin response and have 2 hours post meal bg readings from 8.5-10+. As long as they do not eat more than 60g of carb, their bg level return to below 7.8 at the 3 hours post meal.

 

[Guzzler]

And you are surprised by this?

 

[Bluetit1802]

i imagine everything wears out as we age. We no longer have the bodies of a 20 year old.

 

[DCUKMod]

I have tested a few elderlys over 75 years old. All of them seems to have weak first phase insulin response and have 2 hours post meal bg readings from 8.5-10+. As long as they do not eat more than 60g of carb, their bg level return to below 7.8 at the 3 hours post meal.

Could you explain this testing and the context within which it was carried out? I'd be interested to understand your qualifications to perform any such testing.

 

[Mr_Pot]

One of the reasons for the increase in the number of people diagnosed with diabetes is that more people are living long enough to develop it.

 

[millenium]

And you are surprised by this?

I have accepted the findings without doubt. Prior to that i have no hypothesis. It is just that i knew many elderlys and they at times ask me to take readings for them.

 

[millenium]

Could you explain this testing and the context within which it was carried out? I'd be interested to understand your qualifications to perform any such testing.

I have a human nutrition degree from a university that trained dietitians that can work in a hospital. As for the test, it is not a formal study, just elderlys that were my relatives. Either i test them when they came to visit me or they requested me to bring my meter with me when i visit them. So i can ask many info regarding when they have last eaten and what they have eaten, their yearly health screening, whether they were considered diabetic, pre-diabetic or normal, also they activity habits and level. So far i have tested two of them which were considered normal based on their fgl duriing screening. Both did badly on the post meal reading at two hours, but by the 2.5 hours there is significant decrease and at the third hours bgl is 7.8 or below. Based on their hba1c i think as long as bgl return to normal by the third hour their hba1c result will not fail and since they are still considered non diabetic during their last screening, their fgl is still below the cut off.

Yesterday i came across a research paper that have a finding that is the same. It mentioned something regarding insulin receptors that has become not as good due to aging and that affects the sensitivity of their first response.

 

[Robbity]

I have tested a few elderlys over 75 years old. All of them seems to have weak first phase insulin response and have 2 hours post meal bg readings from 8.5-10+. As long as they do not eat more than 60g of carb, their bg level return to below 7.8 at the 3 hours post meal.

Errm, you've never tested the likes of me then!

On a maximum of 50g carbs a day and in good health my 2 hour post meal readings are very close to and sometimes slightly lower than my pre meal levels and have rarely been as high as 7.8 at 2 hours or later...

And I thought I was a clapped out old biddy, but I'm obviously not quite there yet....

Robbity

 

[millenium]

Errm, you've never tested the likes of me then!

On a maximum of 50g carbs a day and in good health my 2 hour post meal readings are very close to and sometimes slightly lower than my pre meal levels and have rarely been as high as 7.8 at 2 hours or later...

And I thought I was a clapped out old biddy, but I'm obviously not quite there yet....

Robbity

Hi Rob,
Your carb intake is very discipline. 50g a day is only half of what my diabetic father can tolerate, he takes 100g a day in three meals. Those that i have tested have no discipline like you, they takes a normsl diet, at least 200g of carbs or more a day. I have observed in one of them that his fgl was creeping towards 6.0 lately. In my country, the screening will send them for a 75g glucose load test if their flg reach 6.0.

 

[Bluetit1802]

Hi Rob,
Your carb intake is very discipline. 50g a day is only half of what my diabetic father can tolerate, he takes 100g a day in three meals. Those that i have tested have no discipline like you, they takes a normsl diet, at least 200g of carbs or more a day. I have observed in one of them that his fgl was creeping towards 6.0 lately. In my country, the screening will send them for a 75g glucose load test if their flg reach 6.0.

In that case, on 200g carbs or more a day, I suggest it is more their diet than their age causing these raised levels.

 

[Tophat1900]

In that case, on 200g carbs or more a day, I suggest it is more their diet than their age causing these raised levels.

Agreed, suspect #1

Those numbers posted to me show them headed towards T2.... and maybe some of them are already there by now.

I bet if you did some c-peptide testing you'd see some startling results.

 

[millenium]

I dun give them any advice as i know they wont listen and may not like it. One of them is 81. In the morning, he cycles for fifteen mins and do qigong in the morning for another fifteen mins. In the evening, he does 2-3 sets of heavy outdoors machine resistance exercises, a total of 4-5 movements. Other than that, he just sit down and play with his phone, ipads or dooze off. He eats any time and anything he likes.

Last week, he told me during his screening his fgl was 6.0 and was sent for a glucose load test. He got something like 9.5 at two hours after drinking 75g of glucose. But he explained that he drank some honey in the morning. But i knew his post two hours reading wasnt very good as i have seen 9.something (around 2 hours after he took some dimsum radish cakes i estimated to contain around 60-70g of carb) when i tested him before. This is one of the case i draw my observatons from.

 

[Mr_Pot]

I wonder at what age is it reasonable to stop being concerned about long term consequences and enjoy what time you have left?

 

[millenium]

I wonder at what age is it reasonable to stop being concerned about long term consequences and enjoy what time you have left?

My dad is 80. He is very concerned about his health status. So he exercise under my supervision, eats or after i take a reading, i do explain to him about the effect of the workout, the meal more or less, and the significance of the reading value. His data is the most detailed i have. His post-two hours reading is not always 8.5 or below. Depending on his meal, it can be below 7.8 to 9+ and occasionally above 10. But 95% of the time by 2.5 hours post meal, his reading will be around 8. And by the third hour, it will be around 7 or less. With these data, his hba1c is around 5. I find that for his age such a lifestyle is a good balance. And by the way, he still eats his favourite ingredients daily, just less carbs.

 

[Guzzler]

If I live to be eighty I don't think I would appreciate being monitored so closely even by a relative. I hope that I will be appreciating the sunrise and enjoying life and family.

 

[DCUKMod]

@millenium - are all these folks you have tested OK with it all? I know some others have tested their family and friends where they have asked, but not everyone's so keen.

To test my OH, there'd be a lot of running around and near all-in wrestling involved It's fair to say, he does not consent!

 

[Mr_Pot]

there'd be a lot of running around and near all-in wrestling involved

TMI !

 

[jjraak]

So elderly patients who are allergic to nuts surprisingly find as they get older they are STILL allergic to nuts...and carry on eating them.

Shock, horror..

Sorry @millenium ...hope they all get better and enjoy their last few years.

The description Dr Jason Fung uses to describe T2D. Is as a sugar bowl in our bodies and all through our lives we top up that sugar.

For those that can utilise it properly, it fils and drains as we process out the sugars.
For those who don't, (T2D)
It requires
Either MEDICINES to take care of SOME of the processed required to utilise the sugars (though this does have an end game of more and more meds to combat more and more complications.
OR
a revision of the diet.

In the majority on here that seems to be LCHF.

Your folks are either in the process of filling that sugar bowl OR happy eating that which is causing the issues without changing their routines or diet.

So not too surprising, imho

I thought @Mr_Pot ...post illuminating..

at what point do we go **** it..I'll be dead by the time THAT Hits me....

 

[KK123]

I dun give them any advice as i know they wont listen and may not like it. One of them is 81. In the morning, he cycles for fifteen mins and do qigong in the morning for another fifteen mins. In the evening, he does 2-3 sets of heavy outdoors machine resistance exercises, a total of 4-5 movements. Other than that, he just sit down and play with his phone, ipads or dooze off. He eats any time and anything he likes.

Last week, he told me during his screening his fgl was 6.0 and was sent for a glucose load test. He got something like 9.5 at two hours after drinking 75g of glucose. But he explained that he drank some honey in the morning. But i knew his post two hours reading wasnt very good as i have seen 9.something (around 2 hours after he took some dimsum radish cakes i estimated to contain around 60-70g of carb) when i tested him before. This is one of the case i draw my observatons from.

He sounds like a star to me, 81 and doing his biking and weights followed by a nap or a session on his ipad...are any of us that different?, as for him eating what he wants and when he wants, so what? My absolute dread is finding myself in a Nursing home and being dictated to.

 

[KK123]

I wonder at what age is it reasonable to stop being concerned about long term consequences and enjoy what time you have left?

I think we would all agree whenever WE decide it is Mr Pot. x