Has anyone here tried high carb low fat diet completely plant based.

[Guzzler]

I dunno. 1 unit of insulin drops my bloods by about 3mm, and my ratios vary - I'm 1 unit per 6g carb at breakfast, 1 unit for 8 at lunch and 1 unit for 10 at dinner. Basal is split morning and night.

It is fair, I think, for someone with Pre Diabetes or Type 2 Diabetes to take it as a given that IR and its concommitant hyperinsulinaemia will be the crux of the difference, no? That is unless or until measures are taken to ameliorate said.

 

[WuTwo]

It is fair, I think, for someone with Pre Diabetes or Type 2 Diabetes to take it as a given that IR and its concommitant hyperinsulinaemia will be the crux of the difference, no? That is unless or until measures are taken to ameliorate said.

Umm, I know that's English, and I know it's a sentence but that's as far as I got.

If I have commented in a thread where I ought not to have I apologise - I answered the query about wholly plant based diet and didn't pay heed to the pre-diabetes status of the OP. I should have done.

 

[Guzzler]

Umm, I know that's English, and I know it's a sentence but that's as far as I got.

If I have commented in a thread where I ought not to have I apologise - I answered the query about wholly plant based diet and didn't pay heed to the pre-diabetes status of the OP. I should have done.

What I am referring to, sorry if It wasn't clear, is that if an IR Type 2 and a non IR Type 1 partake of the same diet and taking into account the amount of exogenous or endogenous insulin sloshing about then the results may be different specifically because of the IR. Plus, just to muddy the waters further, the levels of IR can differ and physiological IR (re the author?) makes a difference and lastly as is often said here no two T1s are the same and neither are T2s.

 

[WuTwo]

Thank you for the clarification.

I hope I was able to clarify for @Veryanxious that a plant food diet is not necessarily high fat, although the carbs are higher than most T2's can tolerate.

 

[lucylocket61]

I have had immense success with Keto but I am curious about other diets as well. I found this article below which does some what makes sense.
https://www.bodyandsoul.com.au/diet...t/news-story/f33660a184cee7b32bc609de8261aa27
What are thoughts on this? Has anyone tried this before going low carb?

Following on from my post about trying the NHS diet, but with little animal protein, I also got dry skin problems, and my hair thinned. A certain amount of fats are essential for us to survive healthily, and the low fat diet doesnt seem to provide enough fats longterm.

 

[Oldvatr]

I would advise that you very carefully check the nutritional qualities of any diet you choose to follow. It is a recognised problem with Plant Based diets that there is a danger os malnutrition and deficiencies if the diet is not carefully supervised. Plant based proteins and vitamins may be plentiful in a nutrition listing, but often they are not very biovalent which means that they are not chemically compatible with our bodies, and are difficult to absorb. For example, iron in spinach is plentiful, but the phytochemical in spinach leaf prevent our bodies absorbing and using it however many platefuls we eat. Similarly Heme iron, as found in animal products is easily absorbed in most people, provided there is also vitamin c and vitamin D3. Here is anther problem, plant based diets are lacking in sources of suitable D3. Also the vitamin A in meat is easier for us compared to the beta carotene variant in plants. There are other problems with other vitamins and minerals such as calcium and magnesium, that require much larger portions of food to provide for our RDA.
http://www.zoeharcombe.com/2019/01/the-eat-lancet-diet-is-nutritionally-deficient/

 

[WuTwo]

I do agree with @Oldvatr that you have to be aware of the nutritional value of what you're eating, to make sure you fulfil your body's needs. After a while it becomes second nature but now and then all vegans should check micronutrients as well as the macros, just to be on the safe side.

If someone wanted to follow this way of eating, I'd advise thorough, careful research or perhaps getting an appointment with a registered dietician (not just a nutritionist) so that any other health needs can be taken into account.

 

[Oldvatr]

Thank you for the clarification.

I hope I was able to clarify for @Veryanxious that a plant food diet is not necessarily high fat, although the carbs are higher than most T2's can tolerate.

Actually according to Bernstein I believe, the diet works best with ultra low fat. But then he is not doing keto. I think that when in dietary ketosis, then the high fat provides energy for our brain that low glucose levels are no longer providing (as an alternative fuel) and this stops the body trying to scavenge glucose from the muscle cells. This may need consideraton when keto. The idea is not to overdo the fat, but keep it in balance with weight gain/loss.

 

[lucylocket61]

the diet works best with ultra low fat.

How does that work with needing some fats in our diet for our bodies to work healthily?

 

[JAT1]

Nutritional requirements are becoming more and more complicated for me to grasp. At this time I find blood sugar enough to monitor. Pre-diagnosis of type 1 I didn't consider carbs at all and ate a high carb, low fat diet, which worsened my health eventually to a critical level. Now I eat relatively few carbs and much more meat and cheese (food bill has nearly doubled). Diet, as well as the insulin, turned my life around and I will never eat more carbs than I do now. Even carbs in above-ground veggies add up so I watch those too.

 

[Oldvatr]

As a T2D on orals and lifestyle, I cannot bolus ahead of a high carb meal to avoid a high spike. On the occasions when I have experimented with Plant Food recipes from the Michael Greger cookbook , I have to report that on each and every occasion it has been followed by horrendously high glucose levels that have peristed overnight, and have a worse effect than a sweet and sour takeaway.

I am currently in hospital and they on occasions do a vegan meal, and on two occasions I tried it in preference to the plain omlette and chips alternative. On one occasion I triggered an ECG and emergency response team since I had terrible heartburn that could have been a heart attack. It turned out to be just indegestion which I eventually burped up, but it was a worry. On that occasion the hospital bgl meter said HI = KETONES which meant my bgl was over 32mmol/l and in the morning I registered 16mmol/l where I had been getting 5's and 6's. So chickpeas in tomato sauce with spices was both tasteless and a bad choice for me.

I do not feel inclined to repeat these experiments any more, even though I am now currently In Remission - I dare not chance it. Good luck if you do proceed, but may I suggest to you to read the success and testimonials thread here to see how many others have had success with a plant based diet. You may find you are breaking new wind there....

 

[Oldvatr]

How does that work with needing some fats in our diet for our bodies to work healthily?

That is what their (WFPB) science shows. I do not believe it, but then it is "evidence based". There was a meta study done that was held up to prove that High Animal Fat diets have a higher mortality rate than ultra low fat plant based diets. I think there is a clue in the way they used the words Animal and Plant Foods to possibly indicate a slight bias (TFIC) I think the study is in the NCBI archive, but I did not bookmark it and cannot be bothered to find it again. It was epidemiological and not worth commenting on IMO. but Bernard and Greger refer to it often. The source of their data was the ADVENT 2 study that has been thoroughly debunked now

 

[Resurgam]

ah, so its total protein containing foods, not the grams of protein in the food that are counted. So an egg is counted as 50g of protein, not 6g. I just cant work out how your total contains 88g of protein.

eta: not sure if i am threadjacking, as the aspect of the plant based diet i worry about it the protein element. Should I start a different thread @Jaylee?

I think you have that the wrong way round - the egg is 6 gm of protein not 50.

 

[WuTwo]

Hi @lucylocket61 - now that I've finished munching for the day (bar some nuts tonight), here's the protein breakdown

Breakfast : scrambled tofu on toast with tinned toms and engevita flakes – 39g, (the tofu classifies as fried because it is scrambled in a frying pan with vegan butter and this alters the protein count to 17g per 100g. I have no idea why)

Lunch :18g (hummus, edamame beans, tomato, bread), garlic infused olive oil)

dinner – Vegan Life magazine recipe lemon tofu with stirfry (with 50g edamame added to the stirfry), followed by banana and yoghurt – 39.8g,

evening snack of plain peanuts 9g

Total was 105g of protein for the day with 165g carb but if you took out the bread, toast and banana the totals would change. You'd lose 9g of protein but also 60g carb, reducing it to 105g carb. You'd still be on 95g of protein.

I hope this helps?

 

[Oldvatr]

Hi @lucylocket61 - now that I've finished munching for the day (bar some nuts tonight), here's the protein breakdown

Breakfast : scrambled tofu on toast with tinned toms and engevita flakes – 39g, (the tofu classifies as fried because it is scrambled in a frying pan with vegan butter and this alters the protein count to 17g per 100g. I have no idea why)

Lunch :18g (hummus, edamame beans, tomato, bread), garlic infused olive oil)

dinner – Vegan Life magazine recipe lemon tofu with stirfry (with 50g edamame added to the stirfry), followed by banana and yoghurt – 39.8g,

evening snack of plain peanuts 9g

Total was 105g of protein for the day with 165g carb but if you took out the bread, toast and banana the totals would change. You'd lose 9g of protein but also 60g carb, reducing it to 105g carb. You'd still be on 95g of protein.

I hope this helps?

The RDA for protein is 0.75g per 1kg body weight. body builders and endurance athletes can use a higher ratio when training. Is your high level of protein above consistent wih your body mass, or is it because you need more when it is vegetable based?

 

[WuTwo]

Today it's how the eating panned out. Tomorrow might easily be a lot less. Over the course of a week it will be balanced nicely. My husband is finicky about things like that.

 

[WuTwo]

Forgot to say, he's the house cook. I'm just an enthusiastic eater.

 

[Member496333]

I’m assuming that vegan butter is essentially margarine?

 

[Oldvatr]

Today it's how the eating panned out. Tomorrow might easily be a lot less. Over the course of a week it will be balanced nicely. My husband is finicky about things like that.

The reason why I queried it is that the OP is interested in a high Carb low fat diet variant of PB diet and it is important that if a higher protein intake is actually necessary, then it is material to this topic. Otherwise the normal RDA probably applies, and I have clarified the NHS guideline. Others reading this may not have been aware of this guideline, and may have taken your figure as being one to aim for daily as a target on this diet, You are experienced in this type of diet, I am not.

 

[michita]

Just lots of research and personal opinion. Plenty of discussion out there that suggests soy is not really food. You are of course free to make your own choices and I won’t try to influence you.

Interesting. I like tofu and soy soy sauce.... Recently someone said soya products were not good for people with thyroid problem, which I didn’t know. My thyroid antibodies are above normal but it will be hard for me to quit on soy sauce....