T1D, protein intake, low carb and ketosis

[bulkbiker]

I also use an On Call Dual for testing ketones and also occasionally for testing BG as a comparison to my other meters. It seems to compare well but it has a high strip failure rate - about one in five. It will take up blood and start counting down, then gives an error code indicating not enough blood. Is it just me or is this commonplace with this meter? I don’t have the problem with the other meters. Sorry if this is hijacking the thread.

You definitely need to have a large blob of blood for the On Call I found.. more than any of my other meters but I just give the finger a good squeeze and get a low failure rate.. Also the draw rate up the strip is quite slow so you need to leave the strip in the blood globule for longer than you may think..

 

[kitedoc]

Hi @kitedoc

I suggest you have a good google around the Insulin Index of various foods - including the proteins.
You will see that different types of protein (beef or white fish, chicken or pork, hard cheese or tofu) have different places on the insulin index charts.

Therefore, the choice of type of protein carries a different insulin requirement, and this is possibly where @Mel dCP 's insulin requirements differ from your need to allow for 50% of protein.

I imagine that by selecting proteins with lower places on the Insulin Index, you could reduce your insulin requirements - but it would be a very trial-and-error personal thing, with lots of testing involved.

In the past, I have seen a magnificent chart showing the Insulin Index of nearly every food known to man, all sub divided into food groups for easy comparison. But I am afraid I didn't keep the link. The link I will include below is a v basic one, and I haven't looked at the site in depth to see if it is a good one.
https://optimisingnutrition.com/2015/03/30/food_insulin_index/
But it should give you an idea of what I am talking about.

Hi @Brunneria, here are three others:
1.)The PhD thesis about the Insulin index which has an appendix for diabetics with the Food Insulin Demand (FID) to replace carb counting) - but all the low fat foods and the hi carb cereals , soft drinks are all listed with the basic full fat foods only.
2) talking about the individual amino acids in protein and their effects plus the relative ketogenic vs insulinogenic effects of certain foods
3. David Mendosa's take on FID
https://ses/libraryusyd.edu.au/handle/2123/11945
https://optimisingnutrition.com/2015/07/06/insulin-index-v2
http://www.mendosa.com/blog/?p=3667

 

[Rustytypin]

Thanks BB, I'll linger longer with the strip. It's just annoying that the On call is more sensitive cos I forget as I don't use it as much as my main meter.

 

[Bluetit1802]

@kitedoc I'm afraid the first of your 3 links doesn't work. Is it for Australians or library members only?

 

[kitedoc]

@kitedoc I'm afraid the first of your 3 links doesn't work. Is it for Australians or library members only?

Thank you @Bluetit1802, Apologies for the delayed reply.
I think I must have been given a specific number after the handle part of the address:
You might have to search under: Bell insulin index PhD.

 

[Bluetit1802]

Thank you @Bluetit1802, Apologies for the delayed reply.
I think I must have been given a specific number after the handle part of the address:
You might have to search under: Bell insulin index PhD.

Thank you.

 

[Member496333]

@kitedoc I don’t know if you have access to Apple Podcasts but this just came up in my ‘recently updated’ list. I haven’t yet listened to it myself (I will) but the show notes hint that it may be of some interest to you in the context of this discussion. It’s discussing low-carbohydrate T1 dieting and apparently references the TypeOneGrit Facebook group previously mentioned.

https://itunes.apple.com/gb/podcast/keto-woman/id1306197283?mt=2&i=1000434196627

 

[kitedoc]

Thank you , Jim. I shall watch t asap !!

 

[LooperCat]

Thank you , Jim. I shall watch t asap !!

Are you a member of the T1Grit closed group on FB or just a follower of the public page?

 

[kitedoc]

I am not sure.
I can make comments on the FB page but cannot seem to post anything new!!

 

[kitedoc]

Since I do not seem to be able to post a question on True Grit Type 1 website:
Having read up more on low carb and keto diets I figure that I am better if I move to a
two meals per day regimen. That way there is less risk of BSLs from food and insulin
related to one meal overlapping with the next.
I managed to reach a maximum ketone level in the mornings of 1.4 mmol/l and am happy.
Insulin doses are up at the moment due to my battling with a lurgi!!
So I am hoping to reassess once well again.
I have looked over the insulin index again and realised it will tend to have the same drawbacks
as the Glycaemic Index - unless the new standard for assessment of these index measures is with CGM
the data is not sufficient and the actual spread of results is too unknown. The index measures are averages.
And since we all have different varieties and amounts of bowel bugs affecting our insulin sensitivity,
predicting a standard range or measure is going to be tricky.
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2015/11/15/1119143445.htm
And I note that the current foods for whom insulin indexes are available are predominantly
high carb foods - funny thing that !!

 

[Susikav]

I don't understand why a T1 needs to bolus for protein. (although some on here report that they do). Protein takes ages and ages to digest and any percentage that ends up as glucose won't appear in the bloodstream for many, many hours. It doesn't digest quickly like carbs do. If it has any effect it will be the following day most likely. Also, just because a percentage CAN convert to glucose, doesn't mean to say it WILL.

http://www.tuitnutrition.com/2017/07/gluconeogenesis.html

Good morning Bluetit1802... you are always so full of common sense. I was celebrating last week and decided to eat duck pancakes in a very upmarket Chinese restaurant. I knew I would get readings later of higher than 8.5, but before bed I tested again and it had dropped to the much more normal 6.4, which for me is standard after eating something I would not usually. Imagine my shock in the morning when I woke, tested and found a 6.9 reading. I was horrified and blamed the pancakes because of the wheat content and also the little sugar in the small amount of hoisin sauce that I used. Thank you for explaining that it was the long acting protein that was being displayed, not the pancakes. It has often shocked me and, indeed, stops me from eating chips, or something similar, for fear of high FBG.. it makes perfect sense and I'm amazed that after years of low-carb, no meds living I didn't twig!! Thank you once again... Susi...

 

[bulkbiker]

I was horrified and blamed the pancakes because of the wheat content and also the little sugar in the small amount of hoisin sauce that I used. Thank you for explaining that it was the long acting protein that was being displayed, not the pancakes

No sorry but think it probably was the pancakes and hoisin sauce..
In your shoes I'd just have had the duck and spring onions and cucumber?

 

[Bluetit1802]

Good morning Bluetit1802... you are always so full of common sense. I was celebrating last week and decided to eat duck pancakes in a very upmarket Chinese restaurant. I knew I would get readings later of higher than 8.5, but before bed I tested again and it had dropped to the much more normal 6.4, which for me is standard after eating something I would not usually. Imagine my shock in the morning when I woke, tested and found a 6.9 reading. I was horrified and blamed the pancakes because of the wheat content and also the little sugar in the small amount of hoisin sauce that I used. Thank you for explaining that it was the long acting protein that was being displayed, not the pancakes. It has often shocked me and, indeed, stops me from eating chips, or something similar, for fear of high FBG.. it makes perfect sense and I'm amazed that after years of low-carb, no meds living I didn't twig!! Thank you once again... Susi...

Common sense? Moi? Please tell my hubby. But thank you for the compliment!

I also doubt it was protein that did that. Sorry! The protein gluconeogenesis is only likely to happen in the absence or near absence of carbs, which wasn't the case for you. However, one size doesn't fit all and strange things happen with this mysterious disease we have.

 

[Susikav]

No, I had three pancakes only and a mere scraping of sauce... loads of duck, cucumber and onions - it was a large portion .. I eat chicken or duck, no other meat, only around twice a year, and when I look back it does spike me, the same for fish, which I eat more often... I can eat chicken soup with no problems, but not much meat in it... I am going to take notes now... if my FBG goes above 5.4 I will be very aware.. and I'll let you know!!