email to my friend about Weight Loss

ianf0ster

Moderator
Staff Member
Messages
2,431
Type of diabetes
Treatment type
Diet only
Dislikes
exercise, phone calls
Hi David,
I'm sure this isn't what you were expecting, but this field of science includes many of the biggest battles being fought over the dietary advice for the last 60yrs.
So firstly a few of pieces of science which are factually correct, though not acknowledged as such by everybody.
1. Body Fat is regulated by Insulin
Insulin both assists Blood Glucose (a sugar) get into muscle cells to be used as fuel.
It also tries to force any excess Blood Glucose (which can be dangerous) to be stored away as internal or visceral fat as well as sub-cutaneous fat.
Its third action is to prevent the 'burning of stored fat' - the body's extra store of energy for what used to be a cold and semi-starvation time of year. This is the same way it works in animals like Bears etc.
So if you have too much Insulin in your body it is impossible to lose fat and a calorie restricted diet that leaves Insulin high will only lose valuable lean muscle mass instead.
2. Insulin is created in the Pancreas in response to the level of Blood Glucose in the system.
Blood Glucose is formed in one of 2 ways. Either from food being digested, or first thing in the morning by the Liver being helpful and using its (small) store of a closely related compound (Glycogen) to make some early in the morning so the body has enough energy to go and hunt/gather something to eat. Note that the Liver has not heard of Fridges or supermarkets.
3. Not all food types we eat raise Blood Glucose and thus Insulin. For example Alcohols and Fats don't raise it at all, since they are either converted into another fuel of the body called Ketones, or are excreted.
Protein doesn't raise Blood Glucose by too much or too quickly since it takes more energy and much more time to digest.
But Carbohydrates (starches and sugars) can spike Blood Glucose very quickly. A High Glycemic Index starch or sugar source can spike Blood Glucose in less than 1 minute!
A high GI starch starts breaking down into sugars in the mouth when mixed with saliva. It can also be absorbed into the Blood Stream while still in the mouth - just as alcohol can be, hence the past craze for drinking spirits through a straw in order to get drunk faster than by normally swallowing it.
4. It isn't Fat in the diet which makes somebody gain body fat, it is Carbohydrates such as all grains (even 'healthy' wholegrains), starchy vegetables (including all those below ground vegetables, though mashed or Jacket potatoes are the worst) and sugars in Fruits.
This is directly because of their effect on Insulin.
Now something that is less well accepted, but evidence is growing and there isn't any evidence against it which meets current modern standards.
Fat doesn't cause Coronary Heart Disease. Neither does any natural form of Cholesterol. It is much more likely that the normal 'Fluffy' LDL repairs inflamation damage to the blood vessels and that it is only the damaged LDL (by Oxydation or Glycation etc.) which causes smaller, denser particles which may do some damage.

5. No matter how hard a person exercises that can't make up for a poor diet in the long run. Because sooner or later will power runs out and so more calories, especially more Carbohydrates are consumed and then Insulin will ensure that they are stored as extra fat.
6. Calorie restricted diets rarely work in the long term because the body goes into 'starvation mode' and finds ways to use less energy to keep the body running, meanwhile the dieter feels constant hunger and a lack of energy. And the lower metabolic rate means that calories need to be cut by even more in order to reduce weight any further plus fewer calories are needed to maintain weight - so piling the pounds back on is almost inevitable.

OK, so what does work for Type 2 Diabetes and for weight Loss? Well it is exactly the same for both, in my opinion the best 2 alternatives are:
A). A Low Carbohydrate 'Way Of Eating' - this doesn't necessarily need to be lower in Calories.
In fact it's best if the reduced calories from Carbs are made up for by eating extra Protein and especially extra Fat.
This way the Insulin levels are reduced while the body isn't feeling starved. Once Insulin is lower it is 'fat adapted’ it can start to burn its own stores of Fat.
After that, Calories can be reduced and the Calorie deficit is made up from burning all that excess body fat - so no hunger and no fatigue!
As a bonus because Fat is more calorie dense than Carbs, the stomach gets used to eating smaller portions.

I lost between 1 1/2 and 2 lbs per week with this method supplemented a little with the next method, while only trying to reduce my Blood Glucose, not my weight.
Warning: because Carbs hold on to fluid, a Low Carb diet means that some of the weight lost is fluid. This mean you need to drink more water or tea/coffee but NOT Fruit Juice!
Also that loss of fluid means that 'electrolytes' are also lost, meaning you need to take MORE Salt and more Potassium (and possibly Magnesium) than before.
A good and easy way of doing that is to buy some Lite/Lo Salt replacement, which are a mix of Sodium Chloride and Potassium Chloride.
There are branded version of these and I know Sainsbury's have an own brand one.
I don't count Calories at all (you don't need to for weight loss either) - just count Carbs! But obviously don't eat if not hungry.
Finally we get to the food. First the things to cut down on:
All added Table Sugar, Grains, Flour, baked goods, highly processed food (nearly always contains lots of Carbs - look at the labels),
Low-Fat foods including skimmed and normal Milk - use Cream instead), Below Ground vegetables, Tropical fruits - especially Banana, Pineapple, Mango.
Where there is a choice between a Low GI Carb and a High GI Carb, always choose the Low Glycemic Index one.
Now foods to eat more of: Fish - especially fatty fish such as salmon, herring, tuna, trout and mackerel.
More fatty cuts of meat even red meat such as Lamb or Beef (or even a little Bacon).
More Eggs, Cheese - especially hard cheeses such as Cheddar, Cream, Full-Fat Greek-style Yogurt, leafy green veg, Cauliflower, Broccoli, Courgette, Cucumber, Avocado. Aubergine, Mushroom.
Olives and/or Olive Oil are good, as is Coconut Oil for frying things
More Nuts - any type of 'Tree Nuts' (except Cashew nuts).
More Berries rather than apples, pears, peaches etc.
Breakfast is usually the most difficult meal to avoid Carbs, but also the most important one to avoid carbs. Most often I have just eggs - 2 or 3 done any way except for scrambled - unless you use cream instead of milk, or Kippers, or Bacon or Berries with lots of full-fat Greek yogurt makes a nice change.
B). Second method for Blood Glucose and/or weight reduction is either shorter- term or longer-term Fasting.
Now I already have to Fast in between the shorter and longer terms for my regular Colonoscopies, so it is possible even without getting 'fat adapted'.
Intermittent Fasting (or restricted eating hours) is just like skipping breakfast and NO SNACKING. I do this if I eat too many carbs the night before!
Just eat enough so you don't feel hungry, but limit it all to an 8hr or even a 6hr period. That way the Insulin level will be low for most of the day (or actually night in this case). Low Insulin = Fat burning is possible (even likely).
Longer term Fasting. These periods vary very much from person to person. In theory the more excess fat a person has, the longer they can fast for.
However non-sugary drinks and supplements may be required since we need more than just calories in order to live.
Quite a few people manage to fast for over 1 whole week - even 3 weeks. They say that the first 3 days are the worst, after that their body gets 'fat adapted' and they live off their own personal energy store and don't feel hungry or fatigued.

Have a think about it, and if one of these seems possible for you, then adapt it as necessary and give it a go.
Regards,
Ian

P.S. If you want to know more about the science parts I can send you (more) links to scientific articles or YouTube videos by experts.


Fasting:
LCHF: From Theory to Practice
Feng-Yuan Liu:
Real Food:
 

ianf0ster

Moderator
Staff Member
Messages
2,431
Type of diabetes
Treatment type
Diet only
Dislikes
exercise, phone calls
@Goonergal, He hasn't asked for them (so far).
I didn't post them in here since nearly all of them have been already provided in these forums by other forum members such as @bulkbiker and @Indy51
 

Brunneria

Guru
Retired Moderator
Messages
21,889
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Diet only
@Goonergal, He hasn't asked for them (so far).
I didn't post them in here since nearly all of them have been already provided in these forums by other forum members such as @bulkbiker and @Indy51

We get new readers every day, and every week, who won’t necessarily have a clue what you are talking about.
I suspect that your friend won’t either.
Always best to support your comments with evidence, so that people can check up on things for themselves.
 

NicoleC1971

BANNED
Messages
3,450
Type of diabetes
Type 1
Treatment type
Pump
I've tried presenting those kind of facts to my dad and others with type 2 and find its not a case of revealing the truth as if a blinding revelation will transform their habits. My dad is very intelligent but a good example of 'reason being a slave to the passions'. He wants to eat fig rolls/battenburg cake/white bread with lurpak spread like pate so convinces himself that he has no control over his diabetic destiny with plenty of 'evidence' to support that belief.
If you told me that drinking coffee causes breast cancer then as a female coffee addict I'd also do my level best to unpick any evidence that supported that idea.
Your email is great but I truly hope that your friend requested the info in the first place.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Robbity

ianf0ster

Moderator
Staff Member
Messages
2,431
Type of diabetes
Treatment type
Diet only
Dislikes
exercise, phone calls
We get new readers every day, and every week, who won’t necessarily have a clue what you are talking about.
I suspect that your friend won’t either.
Always best to support your comments with evidence, so that people can check up on things for themselves.

My friend is an ordinary guy, no scientific interests and no further education.
Supplying him with links to studies would be pointless since he has no background knowledge to enable him to understand either of the following crucial components: Quality (construction, appropriate time period, appropriate subjects, statistical adjusting for known effects etc.) or Bias (either from funding or just publication bias).

With respect, I suggest that would also be the case for the majority of new members.

I agree that such details are important but given that they are 'beyond scope for most', I feel that such 'knowledge' should be held in a separate thread and that thread made 'sticky' so that people like me don't have to keep a track of the synopses, attributes and locations of all the information we process during our investigations and then have to list it all on a significant number of our posts.
 

JohnEGreen

Master
Messages
13,265
Type of diabetes
Other
Treatment type
Diet only
Dislikes
Tripe and Onions
I'm sorry but if I received such an Email it would remain unread.

Maybe try breaking it up in several emails over a period of time giving him a chance to digest it fully.
 
  • Like
Reactions: jjraak

Brunneria

Guru
Retired Moderator
Messages
21,889
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Diet only
My friend is an ordinary guy, no scientific interests and no further education.
Supplying him with links to studies would be pointless since he has no background knowledge to enable him to understand either of the following crucial components: Quality (construction, appropriate time period, appropriate subjects, statistical adjusting for known effects etc.) or Bias (either from funding or just publication bias).

With respect, I suggest that would also be the case for the majority of new members.

I agree that such details are important but given that they are 'beyond scope for most', I feel that such 'knowledge' should be held in a separate thread and that thread made 'sticky' so that people like me don't have to keep a track of the synopses, attributes and locations of all the information we process during our investigations and then have to list it all on a significant number of our posts.

You have posted on a forum where every single one of your readers has more than a passing interest in the subject (or they wouldn’t be here).

It is your choice to withhold the information from your friend (which I would never do, since I would never expect anyone to ‘just take my word for it’). However, here on the forum, it would be a helpful courtesy to provide members with references and evidence, even if the information is just added as a postscript.

I also agree with @JohnEGreen that breaking the email up into digestible chunks would make it far more likely to be read by your friend.
 
  • Like
Reactions: jjraak

therower

Well-Known Member
Messages
3,922
Type of diabetes
Type 1
Treatment type
Insulin
I'm sorry but if I received such an Email it would remain unread.

Maybe try breaking it up in several emails over a period of time giving him a chance to digest it fully.
If I received such an email I would question the friendship :):):).
 

lucylocket61

Expert
Messages
6,435
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Diet only
My friend is an ordinary guy, no scientific interests and no further education.
Supplying him with links to studies would be pointless since he has no background knowledge to enable him to understand either of the following crucial components: Quality (construction, appropriate time period, appropriate subjects, statistical adjusting for known effects etc.) or Bias (either from funding or just publication bias).

With respect, I suggest that would also be the case for the majority of new members.

I agree that such details are important but given that they are 'beyond scope for most', I feel that such 'knowledge' should be held in a separate thread and that thread made 'sticky' so that people like me don't have to keep a track of the synopses, attributes and locations of all the information we process during our investigations and then have to list it all on a significant number of our posts.

How patronising, rude and condescending.

Without any backup, why would you be believed?
 
D

Deleted member 308541

Guest
Sorry to say that if I received that, you would go on my email blacklist...
 

ianf0ster

Moderator
Staff Member
Messages
2,431
Type of diabetes
Treatment type
Diet only
Dislikes
exercise, phone calls
I'm sorry but if I received such an Email it would remain unread.

Maybe try breaking it up in several emails over a period of time giving him a chance to digest it fully.

I did check that he was interested in receiving information on how my new lifestyle had reduced my weight before I considered sending the email. So he was expecting it - just not quite so much information.

If I received such an email I would question the friendship :):):).
Really? So would you:
A). Ignore a friend who could benefit from your experience? - I can't stand by and ignore a friend in need of help.
B). Give just an overview with little detail or science backing it up? - How would he know that my T2D experience translated to weight loss for Obesity ?
C). Break up the email into smaller thus more dis-jointed chunks? - It is difficult enough to understand in the first place, plus I would have no idea how fast to feed him the information.
D). Provide even more information i.e links to the underlying studies rather than the more easily digested Videos ( as Brunneria has earlier suggested).
How patronising, rude and condescending.

Without any backup, why would you be believed?

He has been a friend for over 30yrs - he knows me quite well - despite not seeing me more than 3 or 4 times per year.
So he is well aware that I lack social skills, tact, diplomacy, small talk etc.

Do you really think that knowing me he would still think my email was patronising, rude and condescending?
If he did, then perhaps he is super polite because he didn't say anything like that - either in his email replies or in person when we had a restaurant meal together 3 weeks later. Although he isn't planning to 'start' until after Xmas, I noticed that he was (like me) eating Chinese food without any Rice or Noodles, though unlike me he did eat a sweetcorn (and Crab meat) soup and couple of spring rolls.
In contrast, his wife eat rice and mine eat noodles.

I'm a little surprised that so many forum members appear to dislike me so much. - Forunately I have a thick skin.
 
  • Like
Reactions: jjraak

therower

Well-Known Member
Messages
3,922
Type of diabetes
Type 1
Treatment type
Insulin
@ianf0ster . Your email which starts with ....Hi David.
The email appears to be to a “ close friend “ and the content would suggest someone you “care about “
Why have you posted such an intimate correspondence to a friend on an open forum such as this?
Is this person happy to be part of discussions on this forum?
It feels that your email is far more about you than it is about your friend.
Obviously only my opinion which in all honesty is worth diddly squat.
Sadly the forum is becoming a platform for propaganda don’t you think?
 
  • Like
Reactions: Vic fletch

HSSS

Expert
Messages
7,483
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Diet only
@ianf0ster . Your email which starts with ....Hi David.
The email appears to be to a “ close friend “ and the content would suggest someone you “care about “
Why have you posted such an intimate correspondence to a friend on an open forum such as this?
Is this person happy to be part of discussions on this forum?
It feels that your email is far more about you than it is about your friend.
Obviously only my opinion which in all honesty is worth diddly squat.
Sadly the forum is becoming a platform for propaganda don’t you think?
“ David “ as a friend of Ian foster could be anyone as it’s hardly an uncommon name - though it probably would have been best to omit the friends name or have an more anonymous username!

please explain your propaganda comment as I for one don’t follow your train of thought.
 

lucylocket61

Expert
Messages
6,435
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Diet only
With respect, I suggest that would also be the case for the majority of new members.

I agree that such details are important but given that they are 'beyond scope for most', I
This is the part I am commenting on.
 

lucylocket61

Expert
Messages
6,435
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Diet only
Sadly the forum is becoming a platform for propaganda don’t you think?
What propaganda?

propaganda
/prɒpəˈɡandə/
Learn to pronounce
noun
  1. 1.
    information, especially of a biased or misleading nature, used to promote a political cause or point of view.
    "he was charged with distributing enemy propaganda"
Low carbing, of varying degrees and types, works for many type 2 diabetic on here.
 

JohnEGreen

Master
Messages
13,265
Type of diabetes
Other
Treatment type
Diet only
Dislikes
Tripe and Onions
eally? So would you:
A). Ignore a friend who could benefit from your experience? - I can't stand by and ignore a friend in need of help.
B). Give just an overview with little detail or science backing it up? - How would he know that my T2D experience translated to weight loss for Obesity ?

My best friend at one time was 27 stone I did not ignore him I suggested we went to weight watchers together in that period he lost 7 stone.

I said I would normally not read such a lengthy lecture as an Email and merely suggested breaking it up in to digestible portions In my experience telling someone even a good friend at great length how I did some thing quite often has negative results the last time just a few months ago the response was John please shut up your body is not like my body and I can't do it your way I shut up.

And many talk about being blinded by science as the op stated David has not got a scientific background. Talking over some ones head can be so patronizing.

I suppose I could have sent him an Email would probably been easier than going with him to weight watchers one day a week every week for the best part of a year.
 
Last edited:

ianf0ster

Moderator
Staff Member
Messages
2,431
Type of diabetes
Treatment type
Diet only
Dislikes
exercise, phone calls
@ianf0ster . Your email which starts with ....Hi David.
The email appears to be to a “ close friend “ and the content would suggest someone you “care about “
Why have you posted such an intimate correspondence to a friend on an open forum such as this?
Is this person happy to be part of discussions on this forum?
It feels that your email is far more about you than it is about your friend.
Obviously only my opinion which in all honesty is worth diddly squat.
Sadly the forum is becoming a platform for propaganda don’t you think?

I have no reason to think he would object since all I have done (until being attacked for it) was to copy the email - though I must admit that I did correct a few spelling mistakes, otherwise it is totally unedited. So I suppose that in deliberately avoiding any background information I have put myself into a no-win position so far as this forum is concerned.

Either I am revealing too much about him - this would be said regardless of whether I had his permission or not.
Or I am the patronising, condescending, rude, arrogant, tactless person that people already think.

I can reveal that he is not diabetic - so is unlikely to visit this forum.

Why do I leave his name in? - I think it shows more authenticity (and hardly identifies him to you guys) than if I left it out.
Why am I not anonymous (I even list my home town and my age) and use exactly the same userid in all the forums (Diabetes, Financial and others), of which I'm a member? - Because again this (to my way of thinking) demonstrates my willingness to be open and honest. Plus I'm unimaginative and not a social person, so I never had a non-4 letter nickname and feel comfortable being me!

I have not been a member long enough to notice any change - so have no view as to whether it is becoming a platform for propaganda.
 
  • Like
Reactions: jjraak