Is a Vegetarian diet really healthier than Omnivore?

[Lotties]

Not choosing between or judging any diet, this may help those have gluten intolerance or apparently develop it trying to follow a more plant-based diet. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/29102613
They discovered gluten intolerance is more likely caused by FODMAPS than gluten. I am sorry, I can't find the whole article but only the abstract or 3rd party commentary except behind a pay wall.

 

[Mr_Pot]

Just as a point of note, cannibalism is still going on today in Indonesian Papua New Guinea.

Maybe someone will start a Cannibal Corner thread....

 

[Listlad]

Maybe someone will start a Cannibal Corner thread....

I was thinking exactly the same.

 

[Little Bird]

I too have read that a vegan diet is good for preventing diabetes and therefore vegans are less likely to develop diabetes, but even if that is true the science is presumably more relevant to non diabetics. A study that looked at the long term effects of a vegan diet for diabetics would obviously be more useful to us here as we are a diabetic forum first and foremost. I don't know if there is such a study, maybe too early for one as of yet, but I would be genuinely interested in reading it.

My personal opinion echoes what many others have said. Vegan can be healthy, unhealthy, low carb, high and lots of other things too. Likewise, a meat based diet can be healthy, unhealthy, low carb, high carb and lots of other things too.
I personally think human health and nutrition is a lot more complicated than just meat or no meat.

In reality there are many other factors which influence people's diets as well as health. The people you live with, the place/community/country/climate you live in. Culture, ethics, religion, wealth, poverty not to mention personal tastes.

In the end people will eat what they want to eat regardless of what science says. If someone wants to be vegan they will be vegan. If someone wants to eat animal products then they will eat animal products. I suspect this will probably always be the case and the only way to be truly happy in this world and not let it upset you too much is to simply accept that.

 

[bulkbiker]

I too have read that a vegan diet is good for preventing diabetes and therefore vegans are less likely to develop diabetes, but even if that is true the science is presumably more relevant to non diabetics. A study that looked at the long term effects of a vegan diet for diabetics would obviously be more useful to us here as we are a diabetic forum first and foremost. I don't know if there is such a study, maybe too early for one as of yet, but I would be genuinely interested in reading it.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2677007/

There you go. These were the results... for comparison my last HbA1c was 4.6%

 

[Oldvatr]

I too have read that a vegan diet is good for preventing diabetes and therefore vegans are less likely to develop diabetes, but even if that is true the science is presumably more relevant to non diabetics. A study that looked at the long term effects of a vegan diet for diabetics would obviously be more useful to us here as we are a diabetic forum first and foremost. I don't know if there is such a study, maybe too early for one as of yet, but I would be genuinely interested in reading it.

My personal opinion echoes what many others have said. Vegan can be healthy, unhealthy, low carb, high and lots of other things too. Likewise, a meat based diet can be healthy, unhealthy, low carb, high carb and lots of other things too.
I personally think human health and nutrition is a lot more complicated than just meat or no meat.

In reality there are many other factors which influence people's diets as well as health. The people you live with, the place/community/country/climate you live in. Culture, ethics, religion, wealth, poverty not to mention personal tastes.

In the end people will eat what they want to eat regardless of what science says. If someone wants to be vegan they will be vegan. If someone wants to eat animal products then they will eat animal products. I suspect this will probably always be the case and the only way to be truly happy in this world and not let it upset you too much is to simply accept that.

I agree with the first part of what you say. But the final paragraph is where I would love to agree with and was they way I used to view this matter. Unfortunately the Climate Change movement is going to severely limit my choice and force me to becme what is essentially a vegan.

The effect of the proposed World Diet To Save The World limits everypme on earth to a token beefburger of animal protein a month, and the rest will be plant based. We will be forced to eat chemically reinforced soya because there will be no alternative. All the animals and fish will be consumed illegally, but no longer farmed, so this will lead to mass extincction of life as we know it. This will be the legacy we leave our children and grandchildren. Animals will be saved becasue they will never be born. That is the sad outcome from the current plans to save the planet.

I have seen the proposed Climate Change Act that was nearly passed into law except that prorogation of Parliament prevented it. It will return later this year, and unless defeated, will use laws and taxes to force an 80% drop in animal protein. The proposed target that MPs were to agree on was the reassignment of agricultural land from livestock to biomass production at the rate of 20% per annum starting in 2020 and completing by 2030. The compounded effect of this will give the total target of 80% by 2030. This will also allow realignment of the imported soya crop from livestock to provide biomass in the form of mass produced plant protein products,

It is important that we do understand how to use a vegan diet to survive with diabetes, since this is what is facing all of us on this forum. I currently low carb, and have what I consider a healthy diet due to the ability to use foods that supply my complete nutritional needs, Post Apocalypse, I will have to eat Impossible Burgers and swallow pills to make up the differences, and I will be forced to use insulin to control my diabetes. I have not seen anything on this forum that gives me hope to be able to follow my path of choice for the rest of my life.

https://www.theguardian.com/environ...roduction-key-to-climate-crisis-leaked-report

 

[Lotties]

I agree with the first part of what you say. But the final paragraph is where I would love to agree with and was they way I used to view this matter. Unfortunately the Climate Change movement is going to severely limit my choice and force me to becme what is essentially a vegan.

The effect of the proposed World Diet To Save The World limits everypme on earth to a token beefburger of animal protein a month, and the rest will be plant based. We will be forced to eat chemically reinforced soya because there will be no alternative. All the animals and fish will be consumed illegally, but no longer farmed, so this will lead to mass extincction of life as we know it. This will be the legacy we leave our children and grandchildren. Animals will be saved becasue they will never be born. That is the sad outcome from the current plans to save the planet.

I have seen the proposed Climate Change Act that was nearly passed into law except that prorogation of Parliament prevented it. It will return later this year, and unless defeated, will use laws and taxes to force an 80% drop in animal protein. The proposed target that MPs were to agree on was the reassignment of agricultural land from livestock to biomass production at the rate of 20% per annum starting in 2020 and completing by 2030. The compounded effect of this will give the total target of 80% by 2030. This will also allow realignment of the imported soya crop from livestock to provide biomass in the form of mass produced plant protein products,

It is important that we do understand how to use a vegan diet to survive with diabetes, since this is what is facing all of us on this forum. I currently low carb, and have what I consider a healthy diet due to the ability to use foods that supply my complete nutritional needs, Post Apocalypse, I will have to eat Impossible Burgers and swallow pills to make up the differences, and I will be forced to use insulin to control my diabetes. I have not seen anything on this forum that gives me hope to be able to follow my path of choice for the rest of my life.

https://www.theguardian.com/environ...roduction-key-to-climate-crisis-leaked-report

Algae protein research is getting to significant production levels and recent developments in colour are going to make it more widely used in foodstuff's. Yellow, white and lime green are soon to be available. Soy will not be the only option.

 

[Oldvatr]

Algae protein research is getting to significant production levels and recent developments in colour are going to make it more widely used in foodstuff's. Yellow, white and lime green are soon to be available. Soy will not be the only option.

The ingredients in Impossible Burgers using GMO algae are more reactive than the animal ingredients. The heme iron will oxidise in the stomach and this could lead to oxidative stress and inflammation in the body. This has not been tested on humans. It has only been tested on mice and rats in the lab, not in vivo. (see FDA licence application for Impossible Burger) Note FDA refused to licence this product initially because the ingredients being used for the burger are GMO and also found to contain glyphosate residue. The heme iron has since been reclassified as a food colourant, and this is how they have got around that problem.


I am more interested in the product safety and nutrients than its taste or texture. I do not like sales hype on any mass produced product. As pointed out in a previous posting, the vegan heme iron content in the Impossible products exceed the RDA and so there is serious potential for overdose of a nutrient that is not excreted normally and builds up to potentually fatal levels. These things are being treated like sweets IMO and I don/t trust them

 

[Lotties]

The chlorella in question (white, yellow & lime green) is not genetically modified.
Wasnt heme iron added for flavour profile and not part of the chlorella but part of making the frankenfood?

 

[PenguinMum]

I hate contributing on these threads because I cant bear being jumped on! BUT I love veg and meat. I eat veg 3 times a week not because I have a moral issue but becauseI like it. I also love fish and pay an awful lot once or twice a week for sustainable fish off the local boats. But I love an occasional lamb chop and chicken. I just wish the planet protectors could give people like me a break who eat what we like/best we can for health and planet. Please dont have a go at me!

 

[Walking Girl]

Impossible Burgers are highly processed frankenfood. Not a good example of a healthy plant- based food. Then again, people eating a healthy plant-based aren’t really their target market.

 

[lucylocket61]

Impossible Burgers are highly processed frankenfood. Not a good example of a healthy plant- based food. Then again, people eating a healthy plant-based aren’t really their target market.

Yes. And it is getting harder and harder to fine good simple healthy ingredients, no matter what diet one follows.

 

[Oldvatr]

I hate contributing on these threads because I cant bear being jumped on! BUT I love veg and meat. I eat veg 3 times a week not because I have a moral issue but becauseI like it. I also love fish and pay an awful lot once or twice a week for sustainable fish off the local boats. But I love an occasional lamb chop and chicken. I just wish the planet protectors could give people like me a break who eat what we like/best we can for health and planet. Please dont have a go at me!

I eat veggies every day. I have no problem with veggies, nor the people who choose to eat only veg, The media has an agenda, and it is also fuelling the environmental discussion. Big Agri business and large conglomerates like Kellogs, Nestle, Cargill, Barilla and some multimillionaires like Bill Gates and the Stordahlens and some celebrities with their fingers in the veggie pie are all joining together to make a killing in the marketplace. Everybody is seemingly jumping onto this bandwagon and we are sleepwalking into a potential apocalyse of our own making. If the diet being proposed for the World was sensible, and offered a viable solution for all then it might be considered a good price to pay for us to not worry about there being no insects to pollinate the veggies, or no birdsong in the morning. Coz when the cows go extinct, then wildlife itself is at the mercy of the poachers and blackmarketeers. This is not about me or you. It is the whole wide world being held to ransom by the greedy oligarchs and tycoons who will have their meat whatever it costs, and boohoo to the poor people.

Just think for a minute. When there is a climate change program on the TV, does it have experts to discuss both sides of the topic, or is it only giving one side of the story? Only one POV? Where are the farmers, the associations and the scientists who disagree with that POV? They are being silenced.

 

[Jaylee]

Yes. And it is getting harder and harder to fine good simple healthy ingredients, no matter what diet one follows.

Now we're moving into the sketchy realms of food "adulteration," regardless of the dietary market.

Bread for the "workhouses" come to mind using plaster of Paris? But of course the are directives that protect the consumer these days...

 

[jjraak]

As an aside (I am the OP) the veganuary guy is claiming that January will save the life of over 1 million animals. Sorry, not technically true. Those animals alive now will die, be sure of that. Since they are farm animals bred solely for food (and livelihood of the farmer), then as soon as they become unusable they will be culled and used for petfood. If this makes the farmer insolvent then they will not be replaced. So it is not going to save lives, but will stop them being born..

A very valid point @Oldvatr .

Which is why we need an open and sensible conversation going on about the potential dangers of simply rubber stamping laws that could have disastrous consequences for us all.

With no profit, why keep animals.
Roaming free, ... Can see that causing issues.
Potentially the only place to see every day animals would be a zoo... But how long before they get protests about them, zoo workers attacked once it almost becomes s religion to some to be offended over the plight of any animal.

That's not too even acknowledge the benefit of animals in preserving and fertilizing the land.

With diversity comes salvation, should, as is likely any new strain of disease wipes out whole streams of plant life.... Most of the vegetables grown have those that can and do attack them.
(Potatoe famine rings a bell)...
But of course we can always use more chemicals to make them even more healthier...


We play with nature at our peril, especially when we consider the epidemic of illnesses, like our own now being attributed to the very same.."better diet" for everyone being espoused by so called "Experts" once again

I'll be gone in 30+ years time , but for many left behind that cul de sac, might well be impossible to reverse from, once the danger finally become evident.

 

[Oldvatr]

Now we're moving into the sketchy realms of food "adulteration," regardless of the dietary market.

Bread for the "workhouses" come to mind using plaster of Paris? But of course the are directives that protect the consumer these days...

Like controlling chlorinated chickens and hormone filled beef? EU controls these by banning them, but there ae open markets esewhere who export processed foods back to us.

See also my example where the Impossible Burger was not permitted to be sold in USA, because of an issue with a nutrient listed as an ingredient. When same nutrient was reclasified as a colourant then it became easy to sell it to everyone. The nutrient did not change only its status.

 

[Mike d]

Why would some welcome their own extinction?

 

[Jaylee]

Why would some welcome their own extinction?

Interesting question.
Possibly, (& in short.) we ain't no different to any other species on this spinning rock.?
Living in the moment...

 

[Little Bird]

I agree with the first part of what you say. But the final paragraph is where I would love to agree with and was they way I used to view this matter. Unfortunately the Climate Change movement is going to severely limit my choice and force me to becme what is essentially a vegan.

The effect of the proposed World Diet To Save The World limits everypme on earth to a token beefburger of animal protein a month, and the rest will be plant based. We will be forced to eat chemically reinforced soya because there will be no alternative. All the animals and fish will be consumed illegally, but no longer farmed, so this will lead to mass extincction of life as we know it. This will be the legacy we leave our children and grandchildren. Animals will be saved becasue they will never be born. That is the sad outcome from the current plans to save the planet.

I have seen the proposed Climate Change Act that was nearly passed into law except that prorogation of Parliament prevented it. It will return later this year, and unless defeated, will use laws and taxes to force an 80% drop in animal protein. The proposed target that MPs were to agree on was the reassignment of agricultural land from livestock to biomass production at the rate of 20% per annum starting in 2020 and completing by 2030. The compounded effect of this will give the total target of 80% by 2030. This will also allow realignment of the imported soya crop from livestock to provide biomass in the form of mass produced plant protein products,

It is important that we do understand how to use a vegan diet to survive with diabetes, since this is what is facing all of us on this forum. I currently low carb, and have what I consider a healthy diet due to the ability to use foods that supply my complete nutritional needs, Post Apocalypse, I will have to eat Impossible Burgers and swallow pills to make up the differences, and I will be forced to use insulin to control my diabetes. I have not seen anything on this forum that gives me hope to be able to follow my path of choice for the rest of my life.

https://www.theguardian.com/environ...roduction-key-to-climate-crisis-leaked-report

Hi @Oldvatr, well you're a bundle of laughs tonight, nearly put me off me plonk! Anyway I wouldn't worry about it too much, us old fogies will be long gone before any of that stuff happens.

If I were you I'd forget about that and focus your attention on that sausage situation going on in your fridge! The way it's going there's a very real danger it could mutate and evolve into a deadly strain of something deadly that will sweep across the globe killing everyone, except for vegans of course, well it was a vegan sausage roll after all what did you expect. And it will be all your fault! Just think of it all those future generations of surviving vegans will revere you as their saviour and deliverer. They may even build shrines in your honour! How you going to feel about that now? And all because you left that vegan sausage roll in your fridge.

 

[Oldvatr]

Why would some welcome their own extinction?

I think that is a philosophical discussion way beyond what this forum could handle. When you control the media, then changing peoples hopes and aspirations becomes easier. If you repeat a simple mantra endlessly then it becomes soothing as in tantric yoga. If you shout Cows F**T long enough and often enough then people see cows as evil. The fact is actually cows eat grass, grass decomposes into CO2 when it decays on the ground, and methane when it does so under ground or water. Cows do not manufacture these outputs, they merely convert some of the decaying plant matter into more usable forms. So the greenhouse gas emitted is the same whether it sees a cow or not. However, a cow is a living being, so does emit CO2 by natural breathing just like you or me. NB we too are carbohydrates, so we too decay giving off GHG. Food for thought, Its the Plants that are evil. I personally fail to see why killing off the cows and planting more plants wll save the planet.

As an aside, I was having a quiet think. Plants only convert CO2 into carbohydrate by combining sunlight with CO2 and water. It only does this when it is growing, and drops to minimal when mature. It gives it all back when it dies. Same with trees. In fact trees emit large amounts of methane while they are living because they are already decaying once mature. The only way to curb GHG is to stop burning fossil fuels, and to somehow get decaying plant matter underground and trap the methane as rocks do with natural gas in coal - same stuff. Cows are good at trampling in decaying plant matter so actually start that process, and this is not included in the environmental calculations.