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Covid and Work, Covid Advice and General Chat

Max68 said:
Woah, woah, woah where did this come from,,,, where on the thread have I insinuated that I would sue my employer?>>?? No, no, no, the last people on earth I have a problem with in this situation are my employers. If the guidelines don't keep me safe then that's not the schools fault, they are doing everything correctly by Government guidelines. It's the government guidelines that aren't keeping me and others safe in schools NOT the school per se, or at least my school. So no idea were this idea has come from but suing my employer wouldn't even come into my thinking. They aren't doing anything wrong at all.

As for resigning and the tax payer paying for it, well what other options do I have? I've discussed work from home opportunities with my employer, and the nature of the job means no work from home is available at the moment because Government guidelines don't advise it for schools. Nearly everywhere else but not in schools. I've contacted my MP to ask what they are doing to help the vulnerable (the government says we are vulnerable remember) and it's been several months and she is "still" waiting on a response from the Department of Health and Social Care months on. GP's hands are tied and we have very much been left on our own so I have done everything I can possibly do to stay in my job but be safe but no support for that option is forthcoming.

Found out today that two of the four staff who have been off this week have Covid. No idea what is happening as I wasn't in today,,,,so,,,,considering that news do I stumble on blindly with a rabbit's foot in my pocket for the next six months or more or do I do something proactive to safeguard myself, considering it's us who have been left to our own devices.

The last thing I want to do is go on Universal Credit. I've explored every single other option available. I have two choices left. Stay and risk it or go and stay as safe as I can do which at least will be in my control, that's it. If I go, for only the second time in my life I'll be on benefits. If I stay it's quite possible that the tax payer may be picking up the bill for my stay in hospital anyway!! At least I'll be doing it legally unlike those who claimed Furlough fraudulently or the Government throwing away millions on Furlough by mistake.

I'll refrain from posting any more updates from my chat's with CAB and DWP today. If anyone would like to know the outcome for their own benefit PM me and I'll forward if it will help you..
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I would like to point out that you are a tax payer, and have paid for the help you now need. There is nothing wrong with you accessing financial support back, due to unsafe circumstances outside your control..
 
DCUKMod said:
I refer you to our friend. @JohnEGreen

Return to Work - Covid Advice and General Chat
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I at no time insinuated or other wise that @Max68 had said he was thinking of or going to sue his employer or in fact that he should.

I was in fact replying to this :

"
My knee jerk reaction would be that by resigning, or asking for unpaid leave, you are choosing to put yourself in that situation, so can't see why the tax payer would be obliged to support you financially.
On your basis, anyone, without too much by way of savings, could decide to have a period of unpaid leave (for whatever reason), and expect the tax payer to support them through it."


You were making a generalized comment aimed at a specific person and I gave a generalized answer to that specific comment that I have underlined.

And of course the answer is when in a situation of constructive dismissal the law says they have to.

Constructive Dismissal is where an employer has committed a serious breach of contract, entitling the employee to resign in response to the employer's conduct. The employee is entitled to treat him or herself as having been “dismissed.



 
Robinredbreast said:
The children are in bubbles, meaning, they have to stay in their groups when they go outside.
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But they only isolate/quarantine those in close contact as per gov advice 15 sept regardless of bubbles.

Those bubbles mix in corridors, possibly playgrounds, on the way home, at home with siblings etc etc so in reality even though they exist between 9 and 3 they mean nothing.
 
Max68 said:
Woah, woah, woah where did this come from,,,, where on the thread have I insinuated that I would sue my employer?>>?? No, no, no, the last people on earth I have a problem with in this situation are my employers. If the guidelines don't keep me safe then that's not the schools fault, they are doing everything correctly by Government guidelines. It's the government guidelines that aren't keeping me and others safe in schools NOT the school per se, or at least my school. So no idea where this idea has come from but suing my employer wouldn't even come into my thinking. They aren't doing anything wrong at all.

As for resigning and the tax payer paying for it, well what other options do I have? I've discussed work from home opportunities with my employer, and the nature of the job means no work from home is available at the moment because Government guidelines don't advise it for schools. Nearly everywhere else but not in schools. I've contacted my MP to ask what they are doing to help the vulnerable (the government says we are vulnerable remember) and it's been several months and she is "still" waiting on a response from the Department of Health and Social Care months on. GP's hands are tied and we have very much been left on our own so I have done everything I can possibly do to stay in my job but be safe but no support for that option is forthcoming.

As I have also said it's not just the risk of catching Covid. With masks worn by staff and my hearing impairment I cannot hear properly so I am unable to do my job at the standard required by both me and probably the school. What if a child is in danger and I don't hear the call?! What if I am in danger and don't hear a shout?! That in itself becomes a health and safety issue which in normal times isn't a problem but it is now. It's very likely that in a month or two if I have avoided Covid that I may get a call saying I no longer can perform my job to the required standard and that was echoed in a conversation with my line manager today. She agreed with my concerns on that,. I want the opportunity of coming back in the future to perform the role as I can if they will have me. The chances of that are lower if my performance diminishes due to current circumstances. If I get sacked I'll still be in the same position options wise.

Found out today that two of the four staff who have been off this week have Covid. No idea what is happening as I wasn't in today,,,,so,,,,considering that news do I stumble on blindly with a rabbit's foot in my pocket for the next six months or more or do I do something proactive to safeguard myself, considering it's us who have been left to our own devices.

The last thing I want to do is go on Universal Credit. I've explored every single other option available. I have two choices left. Stay and risk it or go and stay as safe as I can do which at least will be in my control, that's it. If I go, for only the second time in my life I'll be on benefits. If I stay yopu never know but that the tax payer may be picking up the bill for my stay in hospital anyway!! At least I'll be doing it legally unlike those who claimed Furlough fraudulently or the Government throwing away millions on Furlough by mistake.

I'll refrain from posting any more updates from my chat's with CAB and DWP. If anyone would like to know the outcome of todays chats for their own benefit PM me and I'll forward if it will help you,
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Hi Max, please don't stop posting, this is my go to thread especially around your communications with your employers & unions etc, it's so helpful to many who are considering what to do!!! I really don't think DCUK mod was specifically on about your circumstances, it seemed to be in response to another comment. I like the fact that there are many approaches to Covid related stuff and suing an employer is certainly an option for some (those whose employers aren't as good as yours). xxx
 
HSSS said:
But they only isolate/quarantine those in close contact as per gov advice 15 sept regardless of bubbles.

Those bubbles mix in corridors, possibly playgrounds, on the way home, at home with siblings etc etc so in reality even though they exist between 9 and 3 they mean nothing.
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I actually drove past a few schools yesterday on my way to the supermarket and at every single one I saw parents stood next to each other chatting, NO social distancing, no groups of 6, and some of them chatting to the school crossing lady, honestly you'd think there was no 'lockdown' whatsoever. This is not the schools fault but in the hour before & after school (outside the gates) there is mingling. x
 
Hi,

I landed me some temp work at a printers. (Earlier this week.)
Been there before knew the layout, knew the people. And was assured they provided PPE.
Basically went in & the first 2 people I met were not masked. I was led down a narrow one way corridor past toilets to the staff room at the end where the guy I was to report to had no mask. I didn't enter. There were 4 other people in there grabbing coffee. No masks just mingling. The room wasn't big enough to SD.
I was asked to wait in a meeting room next door. (Which had the windows wide open.)
Waited an hour, then another manager who I recognised & knew well (no mask.) basically told me this environment was not suited to me. I was led through the "shop floor" one way system.
It looked like "buisness as usual."
Oddly I didn't see the T1 guy usually stationed on the first printer as I went in, either?

Then shown the front door & told I would be paid for the time wasted...

Edited to add; I seemed to be the only one in the building wearing a mask.
 
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Jaylee said:
Hi,

I landed me some temp work at a printers. (Earlier this week.)
Been there before knew the layout, knew the people. And was assured they provided PPE.
Basically went in & the first 2 people I met were not masked. I was led down a narrow one way corridor past toilets to the staff room at the end where the guy I was to report to had no mask. I didn't enter. There were 4 other people in there grabbing coffee. No masks just mingling. The room wasn't big enough to SD.
I was asked to wait in a meeting room next door. (Which had the windows wide open.)
Waited an hour, then another manager who I recognised & knew well (no mask.) basically told me this environment was not suited to me. I was led through the "shop floor" one way system.
It looked like "buisness as usual."
Oddly I didn't see the T1 guy usually stationed on the first printer as I went in, either?

Then shown the front door & told I would be paid for the time wasted...

Edited to add; I seemed to be the only one in the building wearing a mask.
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It is a difficult problem whereas others are specifically not following rules due to various reasons.

The two teachers at our school who have apparently gone down with Covid unsurprisingly were two of the "Let's all meet at the pub later" brigade and whilst there is nothing wrong with that, after all it's a free country, it does make it difficult for those of us who are trying to keep safe. After all I am not only therefore working with those people but technically every single person they have come into contact with, and indeed they I. I'm all for the pub, but not at this precise moment in time!!

I had a sight test yesterday. The receptionists were in masks and I sat at the window as requested but when in with the optician he wore his mask under his nose! I was sitting there with two masks on!! When he came to observe my eyes he pulled the mask up but of course he then, as they have to do, pulled my eyelids up! I think he was wearing gloves but I can't honestly remember. Did he wipe his pen down after the previous patient? Did he sanitise the chair or equipment where your forehead rests? No idea. Hopefully all will be fine but I suspect I have a weeks wait to find out!! What do you do though, ask him to wear his mask properly? Ask him what protocols he has taken since the previous patient? I'm not that sort unfortunately and maybe I should be. Bit late now though!! Not looking forward to when the dentist calls!!
 
Max68 said:
It is a difficult problem whereas others are specifically not following rules due to various reasons.

The two teachers at our school who have apparently gone down with Covid unsurprisingly were two of the "Let's all meet at the pub later" brigade and whilst there is nothing wrong with that, after all it's a free country, it does make it difficult for those of us who are trying to keep safe. After all I am not only therefore working with those people but technically every single person they have come into contact with, and indeed they I. I'm all for the pub, but not at this precise moment in time!!

I had a sight test yesterday. The receptionists were in masks and I sat at the window as requested but when in with the optician he wore his mask under his nose! I was sitting there with two masks on!! When he came to observe my eyes he pulled the mask up but of course he then, as they have to do, pulled my eyelids up! I think he was wearing gloves but I can't honestly remember. Did he wipe his pen down after the previous patient? Did he sanitise the chair or equipment where your forehead rests? No idea. Hopefully all will be fine but I suspect I have a weeks wait to find out!! What do you do though, ask him to wear his mask properly? Ask him what protocols he has taken since the previous patient? I'm not that sort unfortunately and maybe I should be. Bit late now though!! Not looking forward to when the dentist calls!!
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That it is. Dificult.

I have certain reasonings as I remember the dusty school days with 30od othe kids sat in a room. And the teacher bellowing homework orders or sir names.. Years later I did a spell as premesis managment installing smart boards, networking stuff & media? I emptied the odd dustbin too..

There is a captive audience in a room. (by law they have to be there.)
I have no reason to believe that "audience" is a seperate species to the rest of us.

Now my other income & passion is (was) music. Technically I stand front & centre raising my voice to be heard.
Job title, "front man." I "teach" rock & roll. Get paid to shout a lot.. ;)
So, with the guidelines highlighted here? https://www.morningadvertiser.co.uk/Article/2020/08/14/Can-pubs-host-live-music-gigs There is more on the countless arts sites too.

Why on earth do they think a "gig" in a school for the faculty is any different?

Oddly enough, talking of pubs. One of the last gigs I did. A rival band member & good friend of mine showed up to ours
& I invited him up for a "duet" setting up a spare mic for a Motley Crue cover.
Not long after & just before lockdown he reported on social media that one of his band members had tested for COVID?
Gigs were cancelled & that he was self isolating.. The irony was the last song he sang publicly was the Crue cover "home sweet home.." :banghead:
 
Fairygodmother said:
Just thought I’d drop this here:

https://www.theguardian.com/educati...of-a-headteachers-week?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

Unless things change, teachers will probably soon be dropping from exhaustion and leaving the profession
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It is heart-breaking. Must confess I was steaming at times when MSN allowed comments to their articles although they don't now which is probably due to the arguments that started!

Comments were made such as -
"Teachers have been off since March so haven't they had enough holiday - get back to work and stop whining."
"Teachers are hoping this will be around for a while so they an just sun themselves down the park"
"Schools should be looking after my children, why are they not working. It's only a little flu."
"Moaning teachers will be asking for a pay rise soon on top of the six month holiday they have already have."

I looked back at those from my email alerts to place them here just to show that many seem to think that a school is merely a baby sitting service and as long as little Johnny is fine stuff everyone else. I'm in awe of many of the teachers that I work with and the LSA's. Teachers get paid 8.00 till 4.00 but that's not their work hours by a long way as many of them are in the school building until gone 7pm and then continue at home.

We don't get breaks. The kids get breaks and you have a a minimum of 5 support duties in break or lunch a week and the minimum is rare. At break you don't have time to run up to the staff room to get a coffee and at lunch you will be lucky to gulp something down until you are on duty in playground, ICT Suite, Library or somewhere else. None of this 20 minutes break in the morning 20 in the afternoon and an hour for lunch.

I wouldn't be surprised when this is all over that there will be a national shortage of school staff.
 
Mr_Pot said:
I am confused by the figures. The article says half a million people have long Covid but according to PHE the total number of cases of Covid-19 is about 420,000?
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And all based on "Researchers at North Bristol NHS Trust discovered that 81 of 110 discharged patients had symptoms when they were invited back for a check-up." - strange?

AND only 77k people have been discharched.
https://www.england.nhs.uk/statistics/statistical-work-areas/covid-19-hospital-activity/

I think somebody got a decimal point in the wrong place since 81 is approx 73.6% of 110 and by extrapolating the data, 77k x 0.736 gives approx 56k.
 
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urbanracer said:
And all based on "Researchers at North Bristol NHS Trust discovered that 81 of 110 discharged patients had symptoms when they were invited back for a check-up." - strange?
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I dont know the figures or whether it explains this,but there are a group of people who were not assessed as being ill enough to be admitted to hospital who are experiencing problems. If they were not admitted wouldnt be part of discharge statistics. More details on independent Sage.
 
JRT said:
I dont know the figures or whether it explains this,but there are a group of people who were not assessed as being ill enough to be admitted to hospital who are experiencing problems. If they were not admitted wouldnt be part of discharge statistics. More details on independent Sage.
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But the article reads discharged patients ?
 
Discharged or not, the Mirror seems to be claiming that more people have long Covid than had Covid in the first place.
 
Mr_Pot said:
I am confused by the figures. The article says half a million people have long Covid but according to PHE the total number of cases of Covid-19 is about 420,000?
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Are you sure you are using the right figure? Possibly this is the number who have it at any one time, rather than those who have had it since the pandemic began. Allegedly around 6% of the population have had it. 5% of 67 million would be 3,350,000
 
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