Fitness Consultant Insists Starchy Carbohydrates are Necessary for Muscle Growth.

[ljshipley]

Last Tuesday, I had my 8-week consultation with one of my gym's fitness trainers. This is a benefit of my gym membership, Any Time Fitness. During these 8-week consultations, the fitness trainer takes and records body measurements. Over the last five months, I have dropped my body weight from 247 lbs to 201 lbs. All of the gym staff, including this trainer, have been impressed and astonished with my progress.

On Tuesday, the trainer happened to be eating his lunch which included large baked potato. I made a passing comment that the potato was poisonous to me. Now bear in mind, this trainer is a huge body builder and does competitions. Really quite impressive. He told me emphatically that you cannot build muscle without heavy loading of carbohydrates. This trainer is also working on a nutrition practitioner certification. So I am less inclined to dismiss his opinion as I would normally.

How is heavy loading of carbohydrates necessary?

• Firstly, it is my understanding that carbohydrates are used exclusively for energy. So the dietary carbohydrates are not being converted into muscle tissue. I believe that some proteins get converted into muscle cells, but not carbs.
• One idea that I have on this is that excessive carbohydrates could give the body sufficient energy to allow for muscle activation which, as I understand it, allows for growth of muscles cells or tissue. So maybe the carbs just give one the energy to do a mechanical activity which benefits muscle growth?
• Another idea that I am wondering about based on some information that I have seen on this forum is that carbohydrates are necessary to activate the consumed proteins for skeletal muscle genesis and modulation. I don't know much about this idea, yet. I plan to explore this idea more.

What other ideas or explanations are there? I am sure this topic is well explored in other threads; so please direct me to any that would be beneficial for me to review.

 

[AndBreathe]

Last Tuesday, I had my 8-week consultation with one of my gym's fitness trainers. This is a benefit of my gym membership, Any Time Fitness. During these 8-week consultations, the fitness trainer takes and records body measurements. Over the last five months, I have dropped my body weight from 247 lbs to 201 lbs. All of the gym staff, including this trainer, have been impressed and astonished with my progress.

On Tuesday, the trainer happened to be eating his lunch which included large baked potato. I made a passing comment that the potato was poisonous to me. Now bear in mind, this trainer is a huge body builder and does competitions. Really quite impressive. He told me emphatically that you cannot build muscle without heavy loading of carbohydrates. This trainer is also working on a nutrition practitioner certification. So I am less inclined to dismiss his opinion as I would normally.

How is heavy loading of carbohydrates necessary?

• Firstly, it is my understanding that carbohydrates are used exclusively for energy. So the dietary carbohydrates are not being converted into muscle tissue. I believe that some proteins get converted into muscle cells, but not carbs.
• One idea that I have on this is that excessive carbohydrates could give the body sufficient energy to allow for muscle activation which, as I understand it, allows for growth of muscles cells or tissue. So maybe the carbs just give one the energy to do a mechanical activity which benefits muscle growth?
• Another idea that I am wondering about based on some information that I have seen on this forum is that carbohydrates are necessary to activate the consumed proteins for skeletal muscle genesis and modulation. I don't know much about this idea, yet. I plan to explore this idea more.

What other ideas or explanations are there? I am sure this topic is well explored in other threads; so please direct me to any that would be beneficial for me to review.

Hi there. I'm not a gym bunny, but believe your trainer friend might be a bit mis-guided in his beliefs.

I know our friend, @Mbaker is heavily into fitness, and also lives with T2, so might have some context to add.

Sorry to bother you Mbaker, but I know this is your sort of "thing".

 

[bulkbiker]

He told me emphatically that you cannot build muscle without heavy loading of carbohydrates.

Time to find a trainer who knows something about nutrition.. how old is he by the way?

 

[zand]

I understood it was protein and fats that were necessary, not carbs.

 

[Dr Snoddy]

Just a thought but your trainer probably does not have Type 2 diabetes. For those of us who are carbohydrate intolerant switching on a massive insulin response does not make sense at all. Both protein and fat can be used as energy sources and are essential in the human diet. The nonessential macronutrient is carbohydrate but students of all ages and disciplines are taught the mantra that carbohydrates are essential for energy. You already seem to be proving that you can train and lose weight successfully without consuming huge amounts of carbohydrate. Do you feel healthier and pleased with your progress?
I'm sure @Mbaker will be able to do a more detailed explanation of the physiological processes involved. He is hot to trot on this stuff!

 

[Goonergal]

Has he not heard of Shawn Baker MD?

https://twitter.com/sbakermd?s=21&t=4G4HMdV-Jm1CiekwDN4__Q

https://community.revero.com/dr-shawn-baker-md/

 

[catinahat]

What other ideas or explanations are there?

Could it be that your trainers weakest muscle is his brain

 

[Oldvatr]

This guy is a diabetic who trains athletes. Rather famous geezer.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tim_Noakes

 

[ljshipley]

Time to find a trainer who knows something about nutrition.. how old is he by the way?

I don't know his age but he is still active in the National Guard. I bet he is in his late 20s.
I would have completely discounted his statement, but since he is a body builder, studying for a nutrition certification and a certified fitness trainer, I figured I'd explore this topic.

 

[ljshipley]

This guy is a diabetic who trains athletes. Rather famous geezer.

Yes, last night I watched a YouTube video with him and some others on Low Carb Down Under. It was kind of interesting because apparently before he became a believer in the low carb approach, he promoted the low fat diet. It was neat to learn about someone who is willing to reassess their own position based on evidence.

 

[bulkbiker]

I don't know his age but he is still active in the National Guard. I bet he is in his late 20s.
I would have completely discounted his statement, but since he is a body builder, studying for a nutrition certification and a certified fitness trainer, I figured I'd explore this topic.

This guy is over 50 and only eats meat.
Also a world record holder for indoor rowing..

 

[Geordie_P]

I don't know his age but he is still active in the National Guard. I bet he is in his late 20s.
I would have completely discounted his statement, but since he is a body builder, studying for a nutrition certification and a certified fitness trainer, I figured I'd explore this topic.

That's a good attitude to take, and it's a fairly big topic. You will find though, that your body builder isn't right on this one. For a non-diabetic, carbs might be useful, even beneficial for working out- but it's too much to say they're essential. Science backs up proteins and fats as essential, but not carbs, and then you also have all kinds of keto bodybuilders, from Vince Gironda onwards

 

[ultradad]

Shawn Baker is a unit, in his latest video he says he eats about 4500 cals from meat and fats everyday.

I dont think i am going to look like that anytime soon eating pork loins

 

[Resurgam]

Since abandoning the high carb low fat diet my GP thinks is healthy, I have definitely become stronger and can see a difference when I flex my muscles - I have gone back to work servicing knitting machines. I had stopped as I could no longer carry them safely, but now I can, even when I go to do the 30-odd machines at the local Arts University.
When just managing to lift machines but eating high carb, my muscle mass was reducing, and I was so weary. Eating low carb but not working out, I became stronger. I have far more energy now than 6 years ago.

 

[Oldvatr]

Since abandoning the high carb low fat diet my GP thinks is healthy, I have definitely become stronger and can see a difference when I flex my muscles - I have gone back to work servicing knitting machines. I had stopped as I could no longer carry them safely, but now I can, even when I go to do the 30-odd machines at the local Arts University.
When just managing to lift machines but eating high carb, my muscle mass was reducing, and I was so weary. Eating low carb but not working out, I became stronger. I have far more energy now than 6 years ago.

Thats a strange version of resistance training / weight liftung. But its an example of how diets can have significant effects on our wellbeing. Pity the SACN quango behind NICE are not prepared to review their advice and move into the 21st Century.

 

[Mbaker]

Carbohydrates are a short to medium energy substrate that in the context of building muscle can help fuel the workout if a person is a sugar burner primarily. Sugar binds to water in the muscle which can provide the swole look during the period of time that the glycogen remains within the muscle belly. It is protein, which when utilised by the Mtor pathway and sufficient stimulus will produce muscle (providing there is enough leucine present).

An alternative way to fuel the body is via ketones. This can take from a few weeks to months to fully produce the same athletic performance (sometimes this is just mental "i've gotta have my carbs before a workout!", and or adaptation to using fat as fuel).

Below are some Keto / Carnovire body / power lifters with links to their sites
Jon Anderson

Tristin Lee

Danny Vega Robert Sikes

I would be wary of anyone who has a huge body and is relatively young. There are only a handful of humans who can be "mass monsters (oversized musles and bulk)". It is almost impossible to have a physique much bigger than a gymnast without using "juice".....but over time a natural body builder can put on significant muscle and size.

In contrast to the above who train specifically to get the aesthetics. I spend more time walking than weight training, as I am focusing on lean muscle for blood glucose control which effectively means 5 mins of warm-up and 15 minutes of weight training at home and when at the gym around 45 mins (due to the time to get use of the equipment). As I am still building back after severe Covid, I am operating at 80% on my deadlift and squat. and 103% on bench (yes, I have been able to push upper body more). By my next birthday, 55, I will have improved. In summary, protein primarily, and fat for energy are all that is required to maintain muscle, and to build a stimulus of exercise is required for significant growth.

 

[Geordie_P]

Carbohydrates are a short to medium energy substrate that in the context of building muscle can help fuel the workout if a person is a sugar burner primarily. Sugar binds to water in the muscle which can provide the swole look during the period of time that the glycogen remains within the muscle belly. It is protein, which when utilised by the Mtor pathway and sufficient stimulus will produce muscle (providing there is enough leucine present).

An alternative way to fuel the body is via ketones. This can take from a few weeks to months to fully produce the same athletic performance (sometimes this is just mental "i've gotta have my carbs before a workout!", and or adaptation to using fat as fuel).

Below are some Keto / Carnovire body / power lifters with links to their sites
Jon Anderson
View attachment 54324

Tristin Lee

View attachment 54325

Danny Vega Robert Sikes
View attachment 54326

I would be wary of anyone who has a huge body and is relatively young. There are only a handful of humans who can be "mass monsters (oversized musles and bulk)". It is almost impossible to have a physique much bigger than a gymnast without using "juice".....but over time a natural body builder can put on significant muscle and size.

In contrast to the above who train specifically to get the aesthetics. I spend more time walking than weight training, as I am focusing on lean muscle for blood glucose control which effectively means 5 mins of warm-up and 15 minutes of weight training at home and when at the gym around 45 mins (due to the time to get use of the equipment). As I am still building back after severe Covid, I am operating at 80% on my deadlift and squat. and 103% on bench (yes, I have been able to push upper body more). By my next birthday, 55, I will have improved. In summary, protein primarily, and fat for energy are all that is required to maintain muscle, and to build a stimulus of exercise is required for significant growth.

View attachment 54329

That's just great: very impressive natty physique! Seeing someone pushing through their issues (like Covid) makes me feel a lot better about what my body can and can't do, so I actually find this kind of stuff really helpful and motivating- thanks for sharing.

 

[Oldvatr]

I don't know his age but he is still active in the National Guard. I bet he is in his late 20s.
I would have completely discounted his statement, but since he is a body builder, studying for a nutrition certification and a certified fitness trainer, I figured I'd explore this topic.

Perhaps he has the answer?
https://www.renalandurologynews.com...ems/mortality-rate-higher-among-bodybuilders/
But then again. perhaps not!

 

[DEBBIESCOTT]

I’m usually at the gym weight training 3 times a week
My trainer (ex FBG triathlete) says some people run better on carbs others on fat, but protein is key,
I try to eat 1g of protein for every pound I weigh
Your body can only process 20-25g at a time,
I eat low carb, but do eat more carbs around exercise
We’re all different & what works for one person doesn’t necessarily work for others

 

[Outlier]

Always useful to bear in mind that many textbooks are already out of date by the time they are approved for use in lecturing for qualifications. This is part of the reason that many of our DNs and GPs and (heaven help us) nutrition experts have not caught up with modern discoveries. After all, they have passed the exams, got the qualifications, so think they know what's what. Thank goodness some seek to update and further their knowledge on a frequent basis, but by no means all. Also useful to bear in mind who paid for the research in the first place, and whether this indicates a commercial interest.