Are there any type 1 diabetics here in remission?

[Billy Barroo]

It's just that to me being in remission means being asymptomatic that is a complete absence of symptoms hypoglycemia and the inability to cope with carbs being a symptom of diabetes.

I have been a Myasthenic for 20 years for a period IK experienced what I thought to remission only to be disabused of this notion by my neurologist who quite emphatically said if you have any symptoms you are not in remission.

I have known many Myasthenics who have gone into remission that is a complete absence of symptoms and not requiring medication for extended periods sometimes years only to wake up one day with full blown myasthenia Gravis one again.

So I suppose it's all just about how you define remission in the end if you wish to consider your self in remission then that's fine by me.

I haven't had a hypo since 11th March 2021 thanks to my strict carnivore diet and by slowly reducing and finally stopping all my exogenous bolus and basal insulin. I have NO symptoms, but I will if I started eating carbs again. That is why I'm still a diabetic. I've been in the non diabetic range since 26th July 2021 when I finally stopped injecting insulin or any other kind of diabetes medication. My diabetes is currently controlled by diet alone.

 

[Brunneria]

Hi and welcome @Billy Barroo

Just caught up with this thread. Interesting reading.

Am I correct that the Paleomedicina studies you have referenced are these?

A child with type 1 diabetes mellitus (T1DM) successfully treated with the Paleolithic ketogenic diet: A 19-month insulin freedom

Introduction: Currently, type 1 diabetes mellitus (T1DM) is treated with insulin and a high carbohydrate diet. In literature, there are studies indicating that low carbohydrate diets may be beneficial in reducing hypoglycemic episodes as

www.paleomedicina.com

Published in 2015, and mentioning 19 months of insulin freedom for a 9 year old child diagnosed with T1?
I note that they say no insulin was used, and that normoglycaemia was achieved, with no hypoglycaemia
See quote below:

Case Report: A nineyear-old child with T1DM who initially was on an insulin regime with high carbohydrate diet then was put on the Paleolithic ketogenic diet. Following dietary shift glucose levels normalized and he was able to discontinue insulin. No hypoglycemic episodes occurred on the diet and several other benefits were achieved including improved physical fitness, reduction of upper respiratory tract infections and eczema. Currently, he is on the diet for 19 months.
Conclusion: Adopting the Paleolithic ketogenic diet ensured normoglycemia without the use of external insulin. The diet was sustainable on the long-term. Neither complications nor side effects emerged on the diet.

And

Type 1 diabetes mellitus successfully managed with the paleolithic ketogenic diet

ABSTRACT Introduction: Type 1 diabetes mellitus (T1DM) patients are usually instructed to follow a low fat/high carbohydrate diet. A few studies in literature, however, reported metabolic benefits and sustainability of carbohydrate restricted diets. Case Report:

www.paleomedicina.com

Where a 19 year old followed the Paleomedicina diet for 6.5 months and showed improvements in insulin production (see quote below)

Introduction: Type 1 diabetes mellitus (T1DM) patients are usually instructed to follow a low fat/high carbohydrate diet. A few studies in literature, however, reported metabolic benefits and sustainability of carbohydrate restricted diets. Case Report: Herein, we present a case of a 19-year-old male with newly diagnosed T1DM. The patient was first put on an insulin regime. Twenty days later, he shifted towards the paleolithic ketogenic diet and was able to discontinue insulin. Strict adherence to the diet resulted in normal glucose levels and a more than three-fold elevation of C-peptide level indicating restored insulin production. Currently, the patient is on the paleolithic ketogenic diet for 6.5 months. He is free of complaints, and no side effects emerged.
Conclusion: We conclude that the paleolithic ketogenic diet was effective and safe in the management of this case of newly diagnosed T1DM. Marked increase in C peptide level within two months indicates that the paleolithic ketogenic diet may halt or reverse autoimmune processes destructing pancreatic beta cell function in T1DM.

I did quite a bit of reading on Paleomedicina when I started my own carnivore journey back in 2017, and I distinctly remember thinking 'Wow, a 19 month honeymoon for a 9 year old, and a 6.5 month honeymoon for a 19 year old are not nearly long enough to claim that T1 has been 'successfully treated'.'

I have just had another look at the Paleomedicina website,

https://www.paleomedicina.com/en

and I am not seeing any updates about what has happened to the child (presumably now aged 16, in 2022), and the 19 year old (presumably now 27 years old) which is rather a pity.
I would be very interested in hearing about them.

Do you have any further info?

 

[Billy Barroo]

Hi and welcome @Billy Barroo

Just caught up with this thread. Interesting reading.

Am I correct that the Paleomedicina studies you have referenced are these?

A child with type 1 diabetes mellitus (T1DM) successfully treated with the Paleolithic ketogenic diet: A 19-month insulin freedom

Introduction: Currently, type 1 diabetes mellitus (T1DM) is treated with insulin and a high carbohydrate diet. In literature, there are studies indicating that low carbohydrate diets may be beneficial in reducing hypoglycemic episodes as

www.paleomedicina.com

Published in 2015, and mentioning 19 months of insulin freedom for a 9 year old child diagnosed with T1?
I note that they say no insulin was used, and that normoglycaemia was achieved, with no hypoglycaemia
See quote below:

Case Report: A nineyear-old child with T1DM who initially was on an insulin regime with high carbohydrate diet then was put on the Paleolithic ketogenic diet. Following dietary shift glucose levels normalized and he was able to discontinue insulin. No hypoglycemic episodes occurred on the diet and several other benefits were achieved including improved physical fitness, reduction of upper respiratory tract infections and eczema. Currently, he is on the diet for 19 months.
Conclusion: Adopting the Paleolithic ketogenic diet ensured normoglycemia without the use of external insulin. The diet was sustainable on the long-term. Neither complications nor side effects emerged on the diet.

And

Type 1 diabetes mellitus successfully managed with the paleolithic ketogenic diet

ABSTRACT Introduction: Type 1 diabetes mellitus (T1DM) patients are usually instructed to follow a low fat/high carbohydrate diet. A few studies in literature, however, reported metabolic benefits and sustainability of carbohydrate restricted diets. Case Report:

www.paleomedicina.com

Where a 19 year old followed the Paleomedicina diet for 6.5 months and showed improvements in insulin production (see quote below)

Introduction: Type 1 diabetes mellitus (T1DM) patients are usually instructed to follow a low fat/high carbohydrate diet. A few studies in literature, however, reported metabolic benefits and sustainability of carbohydrate restricted diets. Case Report: Herein, we present a case of a 19-year-old male with newly diagnosed T1DM. The patient was first put on an insulin regime. Twenty days later, he shifted towards the paleolithic ketogenic diet and was able to discontinue insulin. Strict adherence to the diet resulted in normal glucose levels and a more than three-fold elevation of C-peptide level indicating restored insulin production. Currently, the patient is on the paleolithic ketogenic diet for 6.5 months. He is free of complaints, and no side effects emerged.
Conclusion: We conclude that the paleolithic ketogenic diet was effective and safe in the management of this case of newly diagnosed T1DM. Marked increase in C peptide level within two months indicates that the paleolithic ketogenic diet may halt or reverse autoimmune processes destructing pancreatic beta cell function in T1DM.

I did quite a bit of reading on Paleomedicina when I started my own carnivore journey back in 2017, and I distinctly remember thinking 'Wow, a 19 month honeymoon for a 9 year old, and a 6.5 month honeymoon for a 19 year old are not nearly long enough to claim that T1 has been 'successfully treated'.'

I have just had another look at the Paleomedicina website,

https://www.paleomedicina.com/en

and I am not seeing any updates about what has happened to the child (presumably now aged 16, in 2022), and the 19 year old (presumably now 27 years old) which is rather a pity.
I would be very interested in hearing about them.

Do you have any further info?

Yes I have a lot more scientific (based on facts) information but I'm reluctant to post it on here in case I get accused for giving out misinformation again and then decide to close the commenting.

 

[Deleted member 527103]

Type 1 diabetes mellitus (T1DM) patients are usually instructed to follow a low fat/high carbohydrate diet.

I don't recognise this advice.
When I was diagnosed, I was told to continue eating my usual diet. During subsequent DAFNE course and meetings involving a dietician, there has been no change to this advice.
For those following a low carb diet, this may appear relatively high(er) carb but I was never told to increase my carbs nor decrease my fats.
My diet is probably closest to a Mediterranean diet - high in fresh vegetables and fish.

 

[Brunneria]

I don't recognise this advice.
When I was diagnosed, I was told to continue eating my usual diet. During subsequent DAFNE course and meetings involving a dietician, there has been no change to this advice.
For those following a low carb diet, this may appear relatively high(er) carb but I was never told to increase my carbs nor decrease my fats.
My diet is probably closest to a Mediterranean diet - high in fresh vegetables and fish.

Please note that you are not quoting my words, you are quoting an italicised extract from the Paleomedicina study written in 2014 - so perhaps you should query that statement with them.

In addition, Paleomedicina is an organisation that exists in Hungary.
Presumably you are as unfamiliar as I with the dietary recommendations given to newly diagnosed T1s by the Hungarian health service? It is not unusual for different parts of the world to give different carb intake advice.

Here is a link giving the details of the two main Diabetes associations in Hungary, if you wish to pursue this further.

Hungary

Hungary is a vibrant country that provides tourists with countless memories, including attractions such as Shoes on the Danube Bank

www.diabetes.co.uk

 

[HSSS]

I don't recognise this advice.
When I was diagnosed, I was told to continue eating my usual diet. During subsequent DAFNE course and meetings involving a dietician, there has been no change to this advice.
For those following a low carb diet, this may appear relatively high(er) carb but I was never told to increase my carbs nor decrease my fats.
My diet is probably closest to a Mediterranean diet - high in fresh vegetables and fish.

Standard eatwell nhs advice is low fat high carb for everyone. Aka “eat normally” according to most practitioners.

 

[Brunneria]

Yes I have a lot more scientific (based on facts) information but I'm reluctant to post it on here in case I get accused for giving out misinformation again and then decide to close the commenting.

Thanks,
I was specifically asking for any further information you have on the 2 case studies on the Paleomedicina website.
If you have those links, then I would be very interested to read them, and would be grateful if you would link to them on this thread.

 

[Billy Barroo]

I don't recognise this advice.
When I was diagnosed, I was told to continue eating my usual diet. During subsequent DAFNE course and meetings involving a dietician, there has been no change to this advice.
For those following a low carb diet, this may appear relatively high(er) carb but I was never told to increase my carbs nor decrease my fats.
My diet is probably closest to a Mediterranean diet - high in fresh vegetables and fish.

I was also told to continue eating my usual diet too, which was bad advice in my case, but there's a very good reason why they tell us to do that. I can't say on here what it is, but Zsofia Clemens and a few other nutritional specialists and scientists can.

 

[Billy Barroo]

Thanks,
I was specifically asking for any further information you have on the 2 case studies on the Paleomedicina website.
If you have those links, then I would be very interested to read them, and would be grateful if you would link to them on this thread.

I've gone and asked directly to the Paleolithic Ketogenic Diet group if there are any updates on your queries. My post is pending, Admin need to approve it first. I'll let you know if or when it's approved.

 

[Deleted member 527103]

Standard eatwell nhs advice is low fat high carb for everyone. Aka “eat normally” according to most practitioners.

Like "Low carb" I guess there is no official definition of "High carb".
Which is the point I was trying to make when commenting on the quote from the study (yes @Brunneria I realised it was a quote and not your description.)

Just because the carbs on an Eatwell plate are higher than those who eat a "low carb diet" does not make it a high carb diet.

 

[HSSS]

Like "Low carb" I guess there is no official definition of "High carb".
Which is the point I was trying to make when commenting on the quote from the study (yes @Brunneria I realised it was a quote and not your description.)

Just because the carbs on an Eatwell plate are higher than those who eat a "low carb diet" does not make it a high carb diet.

Compared to a historical diet (ie pre 1980’s) it does when low fat came in and cheap pasta, rice, sugar etc became ubiquitous

 

[gradenko80]

Rachel Chalmers, a type 1 diabetic for 13 years is still in remission. Check out her "NZ" Carnivore group. I'll post some links about type ones 50 years after they were first diagnosed that are still producing insulin when I'm allowed. Dr Richard Oram, of the University of Exeter Medical School, who led the study, said: "It's extremely interesting that low levels of insulin are produced in most people with Type 1 Diabetes, even if they've had it for 50 years.

Any links to read about Rachel Chalmers? Couldn't find anything online.

 

[Mbaker]

Yes I have a lot more scientific (based on facts) information but I'm reluctant to post it on here in case I get accused for giving out misinformation again and then decide to close the commenting.

What! If it is untrue it will be flagged, I have read / seen anecdotal videos for years of people in your situation...don't forget many organisations still say Type 2 is chronic and progressive, yet my meters, A1c and fructosamine tests say different.

 

[Billy Barroo]

Any links to read about Rachel Chalmers? Couldn't find anything online.

Here's a link to Rachel Chalmers NZ Carnivore group.

Log in to Facebook

Log in to Facebook to start sharing and connecting with your friends, family and people you know.

www.facebook.com

 

[oldgreymare]

I was also told to continue eating my usual diet too, which was bad advice in my case, but there's a very good reason why they tell us to do that. I can't say on here what it is, but Zsofia Clemens and a few other nutritional specialists and scientists can.

Just casually chatting with my endo, his main concerns are insulin bolusing for fat/protein meals is notoriously hard to get right, can be easier to have lows and there is no safe way to distinguish nutritional ketosis from clinical DKA - big factors in why neither US/UK current diabetes guidelines advocate low carb/Keto for Type 1s, even though now well recognised as very powerful for treating T2. This is why he has been doing a study with multiple T1 participants to see if there is helpful potential to modify the Type 1 guidance to support use of Low carb / Keto ways of eating. That said, Dr Bernstein in the USA is considered one of the major advocates of moderate protein, moderate fat, very low carb eating to help good glucose control in Type 1, especially children. But not accepted mainstream.

Thank you for posting a couple of references - but these are individual case studies - primarily of interest because they are such unusual outliers, and you may also fall into this category if you are a genuine Type 1 or a very rare, very long LADA Type. Pragmatically I envy you - my beta cells no longer function at any level and I do develop concerning DKA symptoms if I go longer than 24 hrs without my usual insulins.

 

[oldgreymare]

These are not scientifically formulated trials, just a couple of interesting single case studies - interesting because they are outliers.

 

[ert]

Insulin 'still produced' in most people with type 1 diabetes. They've known this for decades.​

Insulin 'still produced' in most people with type 1 diabetes

New technology has enabled scientists to prove that most people with type 1 diabetes have active beta cells, the specialized insulin-making cells found in the pancreas. Type 1 diabetes occurs when the body's immune system destroys the cells making insulin, the substance that enables glucose in...

www.sciencedaily.com

They mean only trace insulin which is confirmed by my c-peptide test. I produce trace insulin but wouldn't survive without injecting insulin. Type 1 is diagnosed as having a c-peptide below 0.2 nmol/l on diagnosis. If your c-peptide is not below this level three years after diagnosis than you were misdiagnosed.

Research news - Simple, cheap C-Peptide helps patients get the right diabetes diagnosis and treatment - University of Exeter

www.exeter.ac.uk

 

[oldgreymare]

They mean only trace insulin which is confirmed by my c-peptide test. I produce trace insulin but wouldn't survive without injecting insulin. Type 1 is diagnosed as having a c-peptide below 0.2 nmol/l on diagnosis. If your c-peptide is not below this level three years after diagnosis than you were misdiagnosed.

Research news - Simple, cheap C-Peptide helps patients get the right diabetes diagnosis and treatment - University of Exeter

www.exeter.ac.uk

@ert Thanks for sharing. Sadly I no longer produce even trace insulin!

 

[Jaylee]

Yes I have a lot more scientific (based on facts) information but I'm reluctant to post it on here in case I get accused for giving out misinformation again and then decide to close the commenting.

Hi,

Within the context of your topic. You are more than welcome to produce more recent documentation on the two cases studied using the Paleomedicina diet.

UPDATE.
I was re-admitted into hospital again at the end of February 2020 and again on the 1st March 2020 for 3 days for more blood tests, x- rays, ECG's, anti-sickness medication for gastroparesis, to monitor my multiple hyper and hypoglycemic episodes that I was having each day and to monitor my oxygen levels.

This sounds awful for you..
Your attachment is a copy of your initial admission for DKA & diagnosis in December 2019.

If you were re-admitted the end of February & early March, 2020.
What was the prognosis regarding the tests on your symptoms?

 

[Billy Barroo]

“Did you not know that” came across as sarcastic and rude. If it was a genuine question I’m sorry. Nothing I’ve said is sarcasm or intended as such. I said this thread was causing confusion, not that you were confused.

The definition you are using of remission is associated with type 2. There is no widely used definition of remission for type 1 even if you do fit that of the type 2’s (Which if you were type 2 you would be in remission) The reason it matters is because it causes confusion and gives false hope as other posts have shown.

You are digging yourself into a deeper hole . You asked a question Quote: "Does it last a month, a year, 5 years or a lifetime? An extremely important point we keep coming back to". and I answered it. Quote: "The honeymoon period can vary from person to person. It can last for any number of days, weeks, months and years". I actually thought you didn't know. You replied Quote:"Yes I did know that. No need for sarcasm." If you you already knew, then why did you ask the question? You need to stop spreading false information It's the likes of you that's causing the confusion. The scientific evidence is out there, do some research it's been there for years. The out of date mantra saying "Only type 2 diabetics can go into remission" has been debunked on so many levels.
Can you explain how these type 1 diabetics can not go into remission? even though they did.

Brilliant scientific success! Type 1 diabetes has been overcome. There is only one question left: will Hungarian or French researchers take credit for this groundbreaking discovery?

Before we get started, here is a brief explanation of the title and of its practical implications. Click here, to read this article on our new website! THE CASE The diet which is radically different from the current recommendations of diabetologists can

www.paleomedicina.com

I'm no longer interested in your personal opinions. Show us some genuine scientific facts. or just let's agree to disagree with each other and leave it at that.