Beware of misleading ingredients.

[Billy Barroo]

I would have thought that anyone posting a dramatic claim that something "can be fatal" on these forums should be able to substantiate that claim themselves rather than having to ask readers to try to do it. The link you've provided in any event does not have the quote on it and neither does it have anything about maltodextrin or even diabetes.

Scroll back and read the previous posts, I'm not going to repeat myself again. It's already been explained. "An earlier Quote "I'm fed up with having to keep on repeating myself. High blood sugars and DKA don't go well together. According to my diabetic team, that told my wife that if she had waited another 24 hours I would have been dead. This is why I highlighted the "fatal" word. Don't ask again." High blood sugars can be fatal. Believe it or not, high amounts of Maltodextin can kill you. There's nothing dramatic about it.

 

[Hopeful34]

How much maltodextin is in each capsule?

 

[Billy Barroo]

How much maltodextin is in each capsule?

I'm still waiting for a reply from the providers

 

[Billy Barroo]

So perhaps having a more varied diet would help? You don't have to have a zero carb, high fat diet if it doesn't suit your body. As Jaylee says, using insulin isn't a failure, it's a tool to be used. You've done really well to manage this long without it, but maybe now is the time to change tack, for the sake of your health?

Not for me it wouldn't. The zero carb high fat diet does suit my body. I follow this way of eating because I want to, it's not because I don't want to. I don't care what anyone says either. it's my body, choice and my decision. I've got no intentions of changing my diet.This thread is about being aware of misleading ingredients. not assuming it maybe time to change tack for the sake of my health. A more varied diet didn't do me any favours or suit me in the first place, that's the reason why I changed it. I don't need carbs and haven't needed any since May last year. Thanks for your concern though.

 

[KennyA]

Scroll back and read the previous posts, I'm not going to repeat myself again. It's already been explained. "An earlier Quote "I'm fed up with having to keep on repeating myself. High blood sugars and DKA don't go well together. According to my diabetic team, that told my wife that if she had waited another 24 hours I would have been dead. This is why I highlighted the "fatal" word. Don't ask again." High blood sugars can be fatal. Believe it or not, high amounts of Maltodextin can kill you. There's nothing dramatic about it.

I certainly agree that DKA is a serious and sometimes fatal condition. But you started off by saying that a "sudden increase in blood glucose in people with insulin resistance or diabetes can be fatal". You are now saying that "high amounts of Maltodextrin can kill you" and "high blood sugars can be fatal". If true, it would be very useful to know what you think "sudden increase" means in this context, how high is a "high amount of maltodextrin" etc.

I'm afraid I won't be able to respond after this for a few days.

 

[EllieM]

High blood sugars and DKA don't go well together. According to my diabetic team, that told my wife that if she had waited another 24 hours I would have been dead.

Ah ok, yes, untreated DKAs are normally (always?) fatal.

But from that point of view almost anything containing carbs can be fatal?

And I would argue that the DKA is caused by insufficient insulin, not carbs, though obviously if you have high carbs you'll need more insulin.

But I agree that in your case, as someone who is managing on a limited amount of endogenous insulin, undeclared maltodextrin is a bad idea.

It puzzles me that you can go to a supermarket's website and see the carb content of any of their processed foods, but manufacturers don't have to put it on pill supplements.

Good luck with your search for a supply without the maltodextrin.

 

[Antje77]

It puzzles me that you can go to a supermarket's website and see the carb content of any of their processed foods, but manufacturers don't have to put it on pill supplements.

Very annoying.
But realistically, a pill doesn't weigh much more than a gram, so it can't contain much more than a gram of carbs, and likely much less.
Relevant if you follow a carnivore zero carbs type of diet, or if you're popping 20 pills in one go, which I don't think is advised.
But even if you do, 20 grams of carbs, no matter the source, won't kill you by DKA or otherwise.

Stating that a sudden increase in blood glucose in people with insulin resistance or diabetes can be fatal while suggesting this is related to taking supplements is just not on, it won't happen.

 

[HSSS]

I'm fed up with having to keep on repeating myself. High blood sugars and DKA don't go well together. According to my diabetic team, that told my wife that if she had waited another 24 hours I would have been dead. This is why I highlighted the "fatal" word. Don't ask again.

This is the first time you’ve mentioned dka in relation to this topic. No one would dispute a dka can be fatal. Are you asserting maltodextrin raises levels (or at least yours) sufficiently to cause a this?

Why so aggressive with people trying to have a discussion with you?

 

[Billy Barroo]

How to Supplement with Betaine HCL for Low Stomach Acid.
I was taking 8 capsules a day. 4 with each meal to digest the proteins and fats and to keep my blood glucose levels under control. I've taken a lot more HCL + Pepsin capsules/tablets in the past. That's why I follow the moderate protein protocol and not the high. A high protein intake elevates my blood sugars. Most folk haven't a clue about how to supplement if they haven't actually tried it themselves. I've been doing it for years.

How to Supplement with Betaine HCL for Low Stomach Acid

One of the most common methods of supplementing for low stomach acid is using Betaine Hydrochloride (HCL).

healthygut.com

 

[Billy Barroo]

This is the first time you’ve mentioned dka in relation to this topic. No one would dispute a dka can be fatal. Are you asserting maltodextrin raises levels (or at least yours) sufficiently to cause a this?

Why so aggressive with people trying to have a discussion with you?

I've mentioned my DKA in my other threads and topics, did you not see those either? You can get back to me later with an answer to that question. It doesn't just raise my levels. It's got a higher glycemic index than sugar, "much higher." Tell me, do you think maltodextrin raises blood sugars in diabetics or not?

 

[HSSS]

I've mentioned my DKA in my other threads and topics, did you not see those either? You can get back to me later with an answer to that question. It doesn't just raise my levels. It's got a higher glycemic index than sugar, "much higher." Tell me, do you think maltodextrin raises blood sugars in diabetics or not?

Yes you have mentioned it elsewhere but not everyone will read back through every thread you’ve ever posted on. If that was your reasoning to support the “fatal” claim then it would make sense to mention it in this thread, especially when asked specifically why you agree with the screen shot - strong statement that no one can really find support for outside of allergies and that would apply equally to any other carb which potentially can raise bgl high enough for dka in type 1 without insulin.

Regardless of what the GI is, what’s relevant to us is how it affects our blood glucose and our need for insulin (end- or ex-ogenous). A higher GI claims to raise blood glucose more. For me personally maltodextrin does indeed do so but I’ve avoided it for years now. However there’s no way it raises me into the sort of numbers usually associated with DKA (not withstanding that’s a lower risk for me as a type 2 with plenty of my own insulin circulating even if it did). I’m not a great fan of GI anyway as so called lower GI foods can still cause me significant rises. Have you seen Dr Unwins infographics and explanations of Glycemic LOAD. https://phcuk.org/sugar/ which certainly match my responses far more accurately and many others report the same. As I’ve said many times including in this thread I think this particular product is one of the most misleading out there as so many believe swapping sugar for sweetener (containing this) will avoid bgl rises equating zero calorie with zero glycemic response.

I’ll confess I’m a bit confused about what maltodextrin has done to your levels though. You say both it raised bgl when you were using it inadvertently and that bgl rose again after you reduced the amount of supplements containing it. By what sort of amounts are we talking in. Mmol and fingerpricks or hba1c ? If it were that product causing unwanted raises why didn’t reducing it have a corresponding reduction?

 

[Billy Barroo]

Yes you have mentioned it elsewhere but not everyone will read back through every thread you’ve ever posted on. If that was your reasoning to support the “fatal” claim then it would make sense to mention it in this thread, especially when asked specifically why you agree with the screen shot - strong statement that no one can really find support for outside of allergies and that would apply equally to any other carb which potentially can raise bgl high enough for dka in type 1 without insulin.

Regardless of what the GI is, what’s relevant to us is how it affects our blood glucose and our need for insulin (end- or ex-ogenous). A higher GI claims to raise blood glucose more. For me personally maltodextrin does indeed do so but I’ve avoided it for years now. However there’s no way it raises me into the sort of numbers usually associated with DKA (not withstanding that’s a lower risk for me as a type 2 with plenty of my own insulin circulating even if it did). I’m not a great fan of GI anyway as so called lower GI foods can still cause me significant rises. Have you seen Dr Unwins infographics and explanations of Glycemic LOAD. https://phcuk.org/sugar/ which certainly match my responses far more accurately and many others report the same. As I’ve said many times including in this thread I think this particular product is one of the most misleading out there as so many believe swapping sugar for sweetener (containing this) will avoid bgl rises equating zero calorie with zero glycemic response.

I’ll confess I’m a bit confused about what maltodextrin has done to your levels though. You say both it raised bgl when you were using it inadvertently and that bgl rose again after you reduced the amount of supplements containing it. By what sort of amounts are we talking in. Mmol and fingerpricks or hba1c ? If it were that product causing unwanted raises why didn’t reducing it have a corresponding reduction?

This thread is about the awareness of misleading ingredients, Not my medical history, that topic is on my "Are there any type 1 diabetics in remission thread" My blood sugars rose before I noticed the added Maltodextrin ingredient on the bottle, I cut my Betaine Hydrochloride + Pepsin dosage down from 8 to 2 capsules per day, I'm now having digestive problems "not being able to digest my food".......and it's causing other problems, inflammation, headaches etc, Which can, as you should already know raise blood sugars. I shouldn't even have had to mention my DKA but when I get constantly bombarded with questions, the likes of why and what was the reason for using the word fatal. Please try and keep on topic Asking the reasons why I post links and screenshots is irrelevant.

 

[Jaylee]

This thread is about the awareness of misleading ingredients, Not my medical history, that topic is on my "Are there any type 1 diabetics in remission thread" My blood sugars rose before I noticed the added Maltodextrin ingredient on the bottle, I cut my Betaine Hydrochloride + Pepsin dosage down from 8 to 2 capsules per day, I'm now having digestive problems "not being able to digest my food".......and it's causing other problems, inflammation, headaches etc, Which can, as you should already know raise blood sugars. I shouldn't even have had to mention my DKA but when I get constantly bombarded with questions, the likes of why and what was the reason for using the word fatal. Please try and keep on topic Asking the reasons why I post links and screenshots is irrelevant.

Hi,

I’m glad you managed to cut back down to the recommended daily dosage..

There are clear instructions here not to exceed 2 capsules a day? https://www.expresschemist.co.uk/fsc-betaine-hydrochloride-and-pepsin-digestive-aid-60-capsules.html

 

[HSSS]

This thread is about the awareness of misleading ingredients, Not my medical history, that topic is on my "Are there any type 1 diabetics in remission thread" My blood sugars rose before I noticed the added Maltodextrin ingredient on the bottle, I cut my Betaine Hydrochloride + Pepsin dosage down from 8 to 2 capsules per day, I'm now having digestive problems "not being able to digest my food".......and it's causing other problems, inflammation, headaches etc, Which can, as you should already know raise blood sugars. I shouldn't even have had to mention my DKA but when I get constantly bombarded with questions, the likes of why and what was the reason for using the word fatal. Please try and keep on topic Asking the reasons why I post links and screenshots is irrelevant.

Sigh. Your initial post used a controversial point as part of the main subject. Hardly surprising it has been debated. Had you chosen to simply say about maltodextrin without calling it fatal half this thread wouldn’t have happened. You raised your medical history as relevant to why you used that controversial point.

I’m giving up now. Phrases like do you need another reminder, don’t ask me again, did you not see those either, you should already know, don’t you know already, do I have repeat myself (and they are just the ones aimed directly at me on this thread let alone others) are all triggering me as I find them abrupt and rude and will shortly end up responding in the same tone.

 

[Billy Barroo]

Hi,

I’m glad you managed to cut back down to the recommended daily dosage..

There are clear instructions here not to exceed 2 capsules a day? https://www.expresschemist.co.uk/fsc-betaine-hydrochloride-and-pepsin-digestive-aid-60-capsules.html

That's not how it works, there's a protocol. 1 to 2 capsules a day is the minimum. for low stomach acid That is the starting point. Scroll back to the link How to supplement with Betaine HCL for low stomach acid.

 

[Billy Barroo]

I've just received this email from my HCL provider, which I already knew, so that wasn't very helpful, so I've contacted the manufacturers to see what they have to say about it.

"This item contains Maltodextrin.

Please do not hesitate to contact us if we can be of any further assistance.

Kind regards

Rebecca
.................co.uk"

 

[Billy Barroo]

Sigh. Your initial post used a controversial point as part of the main subject. Hardly surprising it has been debated. Had you chosen to simply say about maltodextrin without calling it fatal half this thread wouldn’t have happened. You raised your medical history as relevant to why you used that controversial point.

I’m giving up now. Phrases like do you need another reminder, don’t ask me again, did you not see those either, you should already know, don’t you know already, do I have repeat myself (and they are just the ones aimed directly at me on this thread let alone others) are all triggering me as I find them abrupt and rude and will shortly end up responding in the same tone.

Misleading......... calling it fatal was a "Quote" from https://www.webmd.com/webmd-editorial-contributors

 

[Jaylee]

That's not how it works, there's a protocol. 1 to 2 capsules a day is the minimum. for low stomach acid That is the starting point. Scroll back to the link How to supplement with Betaine HCL for low stomach acid.

Thanks for the heads up on the scroll back..

How to Supplement with Betaine HCL for Low Stomach Acid

One of the most common methods of supplementing for low stomach acid is using Betaine Hydrochloride (HCL).

healthygut.com

What does your GP say regarding all this?

Seven Wright, (quote from site.) “recommends doing so under the guidance of a physician. No, seriously… it’s a good idea to find someone qualified to watch over your health and decisions. Your health isn’t a game, so get the right help.”

Health & safety first.

 

[HSSS]

Misleading......... calling it fatal was a "Quote" from https://www.webmd.com/webmd-editorial-contributors

I said controversial not misleading. You misquote me.

 

[AndBreathe]

@Billy Barroo up-thread, I asked about (paraphrasing, so forgive me, "....evidence of people using maltodextrin for hypos...." Could I ask you again to point me to such evidence as it is aplenty from what you say?

I'm just keen to understand what those people do to get enough maltodextrin to cause a sea change in glucose levels and be able to judge "dosages".