Newly diagnosed (T2D) and have to wait a long time to see a nurse. Anyone else had this and tips I'm not doing already?

[WaveyDavey123]

Falafel has no breadcrumbs, it's just held together with moisture from onions if I recall correctly. It's chickpeas, onion, some herbs (parsley probably) with a spice mix that is coriander, cumin and chilli powder (or cayenne pepper). That's my recollection anyway. Oh and some rising agent like baking powder.

[edit] Ok, looked it up... herbs are parsley, coriander leaves and dill... I missed garlic and you can add sesame seeds too. The starch of the chickpeas (need to use dried ones, soaked for 24 hrs, not tinned) is what holds it together.



Incidentally I just went off and read that blog on 'how T2 works' linked to above. Marvellous, nice and simple and clear - OK, low carb, replace carb with fat so you don't go malnourished is about the size of it at a very basic level. Nice.
Interesting that full fat milk actually seems to have (slightly) less carbs than skimmed milk.

 

[WaveyDavey123]

I also forgot to mention that my nurse taught me about net carbs which I had no idea about. You subtract the amount of fibre from the total carbs to give you the net carbs. She wants me to aim between 100g to 150g of net carbs per day.

I have no clue how to even go about that. Do you all consult tables and weigh everything before eating or what?

 

[Antje77]

I also forgot to mention that my nurse taught me about net carbs which I had no idea about. You subtract the amount of fibre from the total carbs to give you the net carbs. She wants me to aim between 100g to 150g of net carbs per day.

I have no clue how to even go about that. Do you all consult tables and weigh everything before eating or what?

You only do this if the nutritional information comes from a US source.

In the US the fiber is listed with the carbs, so you have to subtract them from the total to get net carbs.
In most other countries, including the UK, the fibre is listed separately and the carbs listed are net carbs already.
A very easy trick is to check the spelling: if it says fiber your source is from the US and if it says fibre you're all good!

I don't weigh before eating but I do check the backs of packages for the amount of carbs per 100 grams.
Like with milk, I like semi-skimmed in my coffee much better than cream, but a splash of milk is still a very low amount of carbs so no problem for me.
But I used to drink lots of milk straight from the carton before diabetes, and that's out now.

Oh, and I've never used breadcrumbs or flour in burgers or meatballs, they hold together just fine with an egg.

 

[JenniferM55]

When I was first diagnosed the pharmacist was so negative about a blood glucose monitor I wanted to buy. But I bought it despite what he said and I'm so pleased I did.

It sounds like you might be addicted to carbs (got the t-shirt with this) so you might enjoy Dr Michael Mosely's books 'The Fast 800 Keto' and/or 'The Fast 800' - he talks about intermittent fasting and time restricted eating - all easier than you think. All he writes is backed by scientific trials and experiments. The books are a real eye opener, and no doubt will set you off to do your own research.

Must admit I've fallen off 'the wagon' several times and sunk into a what can only be described as weeks of self-destruction, each time I've managed to get back on the wagon which has been easier than the last.

There're lots of great advice on this site, with everyone routing for your success.

Good luck!

 

[JenniferM55]

I have no clue how to even go about that. Do you all consult tables and weigh everything before eating or what?

I put my food, supplements and biometrics into cronometer.com everyday (they also dip into UK databases). I like cronometer because it breaks down food into micronutrients.

 

[Lupf]

Hi @WaveyDavey123 welcome to the forum.
let me add a few things to what others said.

You are barely above threshold for diabetes, so the adjustment of your diet might already be sufficient, your blood glucose numbers below 6.0, when fasted, are perfect in my view. And by testing you can find which foods you can tolerate. The GP should do another HbA1c test in 3 months, which will confirm this.

Regarding weight, I will tell you my story. I was an athlete in my teens and twenties, and never dieted, but weight crept up to the 90's. Unfortunately most diets are bound to fail in the long run. If you eat fewer calories, your metabolic rate (of burning calories) will slow down, so you will stop losing weight while feeling hungry. This will make you miserable and at some point you will give up. Exercise has many benefits, but is inefficient for losing weight, i.e running an hour is easily offset by a snack afterwards. So what to do? Four years ago, I've decided to something as my doctor wanted to add more medicine (I was already taking Metformin). I read the Blood sugar diet, a book my Michael Mosley, which suggested intermittent fasting.

Thus I've went on a 5+2 diet, where on 2 days I fasted at 600 calories, i.e. no carby bood, just vegetables, salads, soups, an egg and a bit of chicken or fish. On other days I ate normally. This worked, i.e. I never felt hungry an the pounds melted away. I lost 10+ kg and have been able to maintain it. Importantly this also lowered my HbA1c into the 40s, and I am now not taking any medication. In my view intermittent fasting works, as it is evolutionary trained, i.e. when our ancestors failed hunting mammoth, they ate less or starved and switched to fat burning.

Regarding exercise: I am cycling a lot. if you have problems, have you considered an e-bike? It is great fun and while I still use the mountain bike as well, e-bikes are more gently to the body. As a bonus, my wife loves it too, so we can enjoy riding together.

 

[0110]

Hi @WaveyDavey123 welcome to the forum.
let me add a few things to what others said.

You are barely above threshold for diabetes, so the adjustment of your diet might already be sufficient, your blood glucose numbers when fasted are perfect in my view. And you can find which foods you can tolerate. The GP should do another HbA1c test in 3 months, which will confirm this.

Regarding weight, I will tell you my story. I was an athlete in my teens and twenties, and never dieted, but weight crept up to the 90's. Unfortunately most diets are bound to fail in the long run. If you eat fewer calories, your metabolic rate (of burning calories) will slow down, so you will stop losing weight while feeling hungry. This will make you miserable and at some point you will give up. Exercise has many benefits, but is inefficient for losing weight, i.e running an hour is easily offset by a snack afterwards. So what to do? Four years ago, I've decided to something as my doctor wanted to add more medicine (I was already taking Metformin). I read the Blood sugar diet, a book my Michael Mosley, which suggested intermittent fasting.
Thus I've went on a 5+2 diet, where on 2 days I fasted at 600 calories, i.e. no carby bood, just vegetables, salads, soups, an egg and a bit of chicken or fish. On other days I ate normally. This worked, i.e. I never felt hungry an the pounds melted away. I lost 10+ kg and have been able to maintain it. Importantly this also lowered my HbA1c into the 40s, and I am now not taking any medication. In my view intermittent fasting works, as it is evolutionary trained, i.e. when our ancestors failed hunting mammoth, they ate less or starved and switched to fat burning.

Regarding exercise: I am cycling a lot. if you have problems, have you considered an e-bike? It is great fun and while I still use the mountain bike as well, e-bikes are more gently to the body. As a bonus, my wife loves it too, so we can enjoy riding together.

Good post IM does work, I need to jump on this ship as well. You mentioned a good fasting sugar, mine tends to be between 5.7 to 6.7, is that good? And yesterday I ate lots of chocolates so today I have had nothing apart from a Greek Yogurt and will have chicken salad latter on, so compensating.

 

[Mr Hairyman]

Just to add a small bit of help - the website: Drinkwell, has a good selection of low (and no) carb beers. If you're an ale man, Marstons Resolution has only 3.5g of carbs a bottle. If you like lager, then Lowecal is decent and is Zero carb. If you like IPA - Calypso is only 2g carb.
There was another company: sugarfreebeer.com but they are currently not trading, hopefully just a temp glitch. They're all about £2 for a 330ml can.

I'm only on week 3 of my Type 2 diagnosis. Fellow prop forward. My ha1c was 80, but since going low carb/keto - My blood pressure has come down, my blood sugar was 5.6 this morning, and I've lost about 18lbs

 

[KennyA]

Ummm... the thing is you need to look at the amount of carb you take in via a particular food set against the amount of carb you intend to eat each day.

Approach with prepared meat like burgers or sausages, particularly from supermarkets - some burgers are loaded with rusk and are about a third carb by weight - same with sausages. I look for the 98/99% stuff. Lidl/Aldi generally have German items available that are almost entirely meat and haven't been bulked up.

For milk - iirc about 5g/100g. I don't use it at all these days and use cream instead. If you're not limiting your carbs so much, it may be fine for you.

So for someone like me aiming for around 20g/day a food with 5g carb is significant (at 25% of the daily total). If your target is 125g, a 5g food is much less of an issue. And if you're looking at UK sources don't subtract the fibre - that's already been done. US sources however do not subtract fibre.


BTW, chickpeas are pretty carb-rich at 61g/100. So are oats, 66g/100. You'll need to test for them in isolation and see what impact they have on you. If you can actually tolerate this amount of carb you are very lucky.

 

[0110]

Just to add a small bit of help - the website: Drinkwell, has a good selection of low (and no) carb beers. If you're an ale man, Marstons Resolution has only 3.5g of carbs a bottle. If you like lager, then Lowecal is decent and is Zero carb. If you like IPA - Calypso is only 2g carb.
There was another company: sugarfreebeer.com but they are currently not trading, hopefully just a temp glitch. They're all about £2 for a 330ml can.

I'm only on week 3 of my Type 2 diagnosis. Fellow prop forward. My ha1c was 80, but since going low carb/keto - My blood pressure has come down, my blood sugar was 5.6 this morning, and I've lost about 18lbs

That's fantastic, keep it up. I am coming up to 3 months now and I get those morning figures now, but then it keeps rising until I eat at around 1pm (usually 6.2 to 6.8 range), then I have my first meal and then by 3pm its lowish in the 5s.

Your weight loss is good, just shy of 3 months now I have gone from 103KG to around 88. However it does slow down be warned. Then recently I started eating more, experimenting and definitely like they say carb creep, but I am trying to put the brakes on that today. BTW my original ha1c was 82, I turned that to 30 in 2 months.

 

[Lupf]

Good post IM does work, I need to jump on this ship as well. You mentioned a good fasting sugar, mine tends to be between 5.7 to 6.7, is that good? And yesterday I ate lots of chocolates so today I have had nothing apart from a Greek Yogurt and will have chicken salad latter on, so compensating.

Anything below 6.0 is great in my view, I've edited my post, adding this value. Mine are often in a similar range than yours.

 

[0110]

Anything below 6.0 is great in my view, I've edited my post, adding this value. Mine are often in a similar range than yours.

Ok sounds good, so your numbers are in a similar range to mine, so your HBAC1's are in the pre-diabetics range? I can see. Maybe I should expect that next then.

 

[Lupf]

Ok sounds good, so your numbers are in a similar range to mine, so your HBAC1's are in the pre-diabetics range? I can see. Maybe I should expect that next then.

There is a table regarding expected ranges at

Normal and Diabetic Blood Sugar Level Ranges

Normal blood sugar ranges and blood sugar ranges for adults and children with type 1 diabetes, type 2 diabetes and blood sugar ranges to determine diabetes.

www.diabetes.co.uk

which gives two ranges for non-diabetics
4.0 to 5.9 mmol/l NICE recommended target blood glucose level ranges
4.0 to 5.4 mmol/l Normal and diabetic blood sugar ranges

 

[WaveyDavey123]

Hi @WaveyDavey123 Regarding exercise: I am cycling a lot. if you have problems, have you considered an e-bike? It is great fun and while I still use the mountain bike as well, e-bikes are more gently to the body. As a bonus, my wife loves it too, so we can enjoy riding together.

Cycling isn’t too difficult- mix of things really, literally about 2 days before the 1st lockdown the hanger bolt snapped and completed destroyed the deraileur and back wheel. I didn’t get motivated to fix it properly at the time. It is now but 2.5 yrs later I just never got around to restarting. Then I got my atrial flutter- which was quite terrifying- I’m still a bit nervous of raising my heart rate too much - hence the walking to at least improve things. I probably will get back to it eventually.

 

[MrsA2]

She wants me to aim between 100g to 150g of net carbs per day.

That's quite high for a lot of us who find that many would raise our bg. Do test and see how it goes for you and your bg. We are all different.

 

[Resurgam]

I also forgot to mention that my nurse taught me about net carbs which I had no idea about. You subtract the amount of fibre from the total carbs to give you the net carbs. She wants me to aim between 100g to 150g of net carbs per day.

Oh dear - WRONG.
In the UK the fibre is not included in the count, though if the US the word is spelt fiber, and included.
I have to stick to under 50 gm of carbs a day to stay in range, these days it is under 40 gm.

 

[WaveyDavey123]

It's appreciated Le43

Just reducing my portions is already working very nicely for me. Yes as people have been saying, it looks like I'm really pre-diabetic.
This morning my fasting reading was 7.1 mM - small breakfast of mixed natural greek yogurt and oats - bus ride to work this morning as I was running late. 6.8 mM 2 hours later. Happy with that.
Nevertheless, I am still, if not full blown - definitely pre-diabetic and I shall be dieting accordingly. The oats are going to get cut now I've finished my last batch of yogurt mixes. I'll also be cutting out carbs as much as I can, so probably the falafel too. I want to reverse this and keep it that way permanently if I can. Even if I do reverse it - I need to lose a lot of weight anyway.

 

[WaveyDavey123]

Further to the above, the kefir is higher than the yoghurt in carbs. My bloods after were 6.1mmol/L but I forgot to do them before I'd eaten.

Ah don't worry. I am very much hoping I do not have to delve into carb levels in my diet to that extent anyway - but we'll see and I would always try and get an overall picture off a variety of sources anyway. I've enjoyed your posts and tips and am very grateful to hear from someone who's been in approximately the same boat - but with more experience.

It certainly is all bewildering. Thankfully (fingers crossed) - I can just drop my carbohydrate intake to take my weight and blood sugar down and reverse my current trajectory. I can see around this place that I am indeed very lucky and have the opportunity to revers things before the damage becomes irreversible.

Thanks for the little recipes also - they are useful to see and sound tasty

 

[WaveyDavey123]

So... might as well convert this thread into a bit of a reflective blog now as I'm a bit more used to things (I hope that's within the rules moderators?). Thanks all for the comments previously I learned a lot last week and I'm much more comfortable with all this now.

In the last week I cut my carbohydrate intake dramatically. I basically no longer eat high carb food such as potatoes*, pasta, bread, sweet things and any processed food I detect even *might* have it in. However I've not starved myself, I've tried to raise good fat consumption so breakfasts are now natural yogurt based or bacon/high quality sausage/poached egg. Lunch is typically (I vary it), tuna fish with mixed salad, with mayonnaise and a low carb dressing. Perhaps one piece of fruit. In the evening, it's better too. My wife got annoyed about it all at first but then went and did her own reading on it and has come around significantly. She got a warning herself on this last year and got all in denial about it, but now she's come around to the fact that it will likely benefit her too. So she's still eating potatoes as she loves them too much but we're eating much lower carb dinners.

My weight has plummeted already. Perhaps a bit too fast. Last Tuesday I was 123.5 kg. Last night I was 118.4 kg. In old money that's 10 lb in a week. It's not like this has happened by starvation though. I'm reasonably confident this is just a fast initial drop which will level out at some point. I've definitely lost some waistline and my shirts are already feeling ... loose. Excellent. I'm eating nutritious food - I've done a so-called 'detox' day or anything like that. I just stopped eating rubbish and cut down on my portions.
So

My blood glucose levels have dropped steadily all week to the point that before evening food yesterday I got a reading of 4.9 mM. It had been below 7.0 for 3 days running at that point for ALL readings.

Lessons still to be learned....

Even though I said to my wife at one point 'this means I've got my blood sugar level under control, that's all that means, it doesn't mean I'm not diabetic'... I started to unconsciously think... maybe I can get a little naughty occasionally.
Last night my wife planned dinner as a fish cake and salad. But I said, no, I had salad at lunchtime, I don't want to get 'saladed' out. Let's make it a moderately portion of potatoes and peas tonight (not just any potatoes, home cooked chips). I'll monitor and if it's bad... well we will know not do to that again...

So I monitored... that 4.9 mM turned to 8.3 mM 2 hours later. This morning my fasted reading was 6.9 mM.... yeah, potatoes and peas... they're bad mmkay.

Like I had said two days ago, successful 4.0-7.0 mM reading range maintenance does not mean I am glucose tolerant. It meant I *had* been eating appropriately. Farewell peas, farewell potatoes. (pretty sure it was the peas really - the * above somewhere indicates that potatoes have not entirely been cut out, I have had small quantities and fared OK, but still).
But that - really not entirely outrageous dinner last night does tell me I need to be ... careful... at least for the medium term future. I will maybe try that experiment again in a months time... we'll see.


Extremely pleased at the progress I've made in the last week nevertheless.

 

[timbo_dolman]

Wow, lots of action since yesterday here. Losing track so can't thank individually but thanks all for all the helpful comment.

Y'all are pretty convincing and persuasive on the low carb thing. Not the first time I've heard some of this stuff either. Back in my cycling days there was lots of talk of low carb style diets though it was geared to cycling so that's where I get my penchant for oats from (slow release so very suited to long steady all day exercise). I changed to oats from wheat based cereals as one really eminent guy on the circuit lost about 30 years worth of middle aged spread and when he shared his experience it was much like this. 'It's all the wheat based products' I recall him saying. Never put anything into action myself though. He tried to break a long standing world record for miles cycled in a year and I was going to be one of his hosts before he had an accident and had to quit. The team's instructions for his food (hosts had to prepare it for him as he had a tight schedule) was lots of high protein stuff - particularly sausages. Though I shall steer clear of them and burgers I think as they have rusk or breadcrumbs in - at least the homemade ones I'd made anyway.
Time to go very much reduced carb at the very least.

Couple of questions.
I see around that dairy (cow) milk is frowned up because of the lactose. So can you use lactose free as an alternative? Oatmilk and such are not particularly environmentally friendly to my knowledge.
Also if milk is not good - how come full fat plain yogurt is? The one is made from the other.... the culture that makes the yogurt from the milk consumes the lactose I guess?

Chickpeas are bad then? Falafel and houmous are my current go-to for lunch...

I like the unsweetened soya milk by Alpro - zero carbs and tastes ok when you get used to it