Should I be considering medication?

[Sunnysky]

I've been diagnosed as diabetic for several years now and initially wanted to manage it with diet. I only found out by chance that I was diabetic as read it on my online record. No one had told me.
I found out about the NHS low calorie diet and decided to do it and all my bloods went back to normal in a few weeks. However, about a year on I am back to how I was before and I have put all the weight back on. My last few HbA1c readings have been 51, 49 and 50 over the space of a year.

I'm wondering when do people usually start using medication and if it's advisable for damage limitation to the body given the readings I'm getting?

I'm starting eating low carb again as very worried about my health. I'm 64, 16st 3lb and been advised to go on blood pressure medication and statins. BP average is around 150 over 75. Triglycerides 2.63, chol/hdl ratio 3.8. HDL 1.48, serum cholesterol level 5.6. I was on Atorvastin for 2 weeks and blood sugar increased a lot so came off it. I'm also aware of all the controversy about statins and so wary about taking them. Why do they prescribe drugs that raise blood sugar when you're diabetic?

I have lost faith in the medical profession as they seem to do this type of thing all the time.
I started Losartan for BP a month ago but developed chest pains and so have come off it. I have tried lots of other BP medication in the past but haven't been able to tolerate them as developed coughs, rashes and severe tiredness. I'm also worried about the pain I get in my calf when walking. I feel very stressed about all of this and trying to get a helpful doctor to talk to seems impossible.

Last time I had a diabetic review it was taken up doing an ECG due to chest pains so no opportunity to discuss anything diabetes related. Even so the nurse wrote on my online record as if she had done the review - this seems to happen a lot at my practice and is annoying. I assume they do it to get the stats up but it's wrong.
I get really anxious now when dealing with my health centre as don't feel I can trust them especially due to the making things up on my record and their lack of knowledge. The last time I had blood taken the woman was really rough and I ended up with massive swollen bruises on each arm for weeks.

It's really hard to get access to the doctors and I usually feel I'm being fobbed off and that they don't want to be bothered. This makes it even more stressful.

Sorry for the long rambling post but I suppose it's nice to feel there's somewhere I can share these things when I'm feeling so let down and disappointed with the health care I'm receiving.

 

[KennyA]

Hi Sunnysky and welcome to the forums. It doesn't sound like you've had a great experience of T2 diabetic care in the NHS. Things seem to be completely unpredictable - some of us on here have good experiences, some neutral, and some decidedly poor. I have very little contact with my practice - they class me as "well-controlled" so I am seen once a year when they do the MOT at the same time.

I'm around the same age and size as you, and I have found low carb eating, rather than low-calorie, to be most effective. My experience with low-calorie has been constant hunger, tiredness, and limited weight loss (which piled back on at the first opportunity). Atkins worked for me for weight loss but I had not then appreciated that it has an effect on blood glucose as well. I've found low carb (very low carb in my case) to be something that I can keep up (in my fourth year now), without hunger.

I'd recommend reading around a bit on the forum - there is a very wide range of experience and knowledge and I'm sure you'll find something helpful.

 

[Deleted member 475901]

Sorry that things are so difficult for you.
But you said you are trying low carb again so that is a positive step. How many carbs are you eating, and are you measuring your blood sugar so you know how your body is reacting to carbs?

I personally found low carb much easier than calorie counting, as I've yoyo'd dieted in the past but have managed to stay low carb since my T2 diagnosis. I thought about my favourite foods, and the triggers that made me binge on sweet stuff, so I could make low carb a long-term change.
I use herbs and spices to vary meals, have a couple of squares of 85% chocolate at night, indulge in full fat greek yogurt with a few fresh berries and eat some veg I'd never tried before.
One thing that amazed my medical team, apart from getting into remission which they'd never seen before, is that my cholesterol tests are fine in spite of eating cheese, double cream, oily dressings. etc. There was some research done on rodents a while ago that showed the combination of highly processed fats and carbs caused more issues than fats on their own.

link added: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/003193849090367D

 

[Outlier]

I didn't get any help from the medics either, but as has been said, it's pure luck whether we get someone (or a team) that is good or indifferent. Some of us here have had a great deal of support, others .... not. So in the latter case, the best actions IMO are to gain as much knowledge as we can from reputable research, and there is plenty to be found via links on here as well as shared individual experience. We are all different, but we can each find methods of helping ourselves and sharing that experience to help others.

Knowledge is power, and we each have it in our power to increase our knowledge. It's great if we do get informed medical help, but if not, it isn't a tragedy, just makes things a bit lonelier. But, you know, it isn't as lonely as it could be because there is huge support here from us all.

For me personally, low carb healthy fat was - is - the game changer. Might well be the same for you.

 

[JoKalsbeek]

I've been diagnosed as diabetic for several years now and initially wanted to manage it with diet. I only found out by chance that I was diabetic as read it on my online record. No one had told me.
I found out about the NHS low calorie diet and decided to do it and all my bloods went back to normal in a few weeks. However, about a year on I am back to how I was before and I have put all the weight back on. My last few HbA1c readings have been 51, 49 and 50 over the space of a year.

I'm wondering when do people usually start using medication and if it's advisable for damage limitation to the body given the readings I'm getting?

I'm starting eating low carb again as very worried about my health. I'm 64, 16st 3lb and been advised to go on blood pressure medication and statins. BP average is around 150 over 75. Triglycerides 2.63, chol/hdl ratio 3.8. HDL 1.48, serum cholesterol level 5.6. I was on Atorvastin for 2 weeks and blood sugar increased a lot so came off it. I'm also aware of all the controversy about statins and so wary about taking them. Why do they prescribe drugs that raise blood sugar when you're diabetic?

I have lost faith in the medical profession as they seem to do this type of thing all the time.
I started Losartan for BP a month ago but developed chest pains and so have come off it. I have tried lots of other BP medication in the past but haven't been able to tolerate them as developed coughs, rashes and severe tiredness. I'm also worried about the pain I get in my calf when walking. I feel very stressed about all of this and trying to get a helpful doctor to talk to seems impossible.

Last time I had a diabetic review it was taken up doing an ECG due to chest pains so no opportunity to discuss anything diabetes related. Even so the nurse wrote on my online record as if she had done the review - this seems to happen a lot at my practice and is annoying. I assume they do it to get the stats up but it's wrong.
I get really anxious now when dealing with my health centre as don't feel I can trust them especially due to the making things up on my record and their lack of knowledge. The last time I had blood taken the woman was really rough and I ended up with massive swollen bruises on each arm for weeks.

It's really hard to get access to the doctors and I usually feel I'm being fobbed off and that they don't want to be bothered. This makes it even more stressful.

Sorry for the long rambling post but I suppose it's nice to feel there's somewhere I can share these things when I'm feeling so let down and disappointed with the health care I'm receiving.

Going low carb lowered my blood sugars to non-diabetic levels, and my blood pressure came down too... Too much so even, I have to add salt to everything! https://josekalsbeek.blogspot.com/2019/11/the-nutritional-thingy.html might help some.

Personally I'd consider meds if I have absolutely no other choice whatsoever, as I respond rather badly to medication due to other conditions. So can't advise you there, not really. But if you really want to know what I'd do, then yeah. Low carb. It fixed my blood sugars, my cholesterol's fine, blood pressure even a tad low, weight better than it was... I'd say, go for it. (Forget calories though. Don't mix the low carb and low cal diets, your blood sugars aren't so dramatic that you need to take such measures.)

Good luck!
Jo

 

[Sunnysky]

Hi Sunnysky and welcome to the forums. It doesn't sound like you've had a great experience of T2 diabetic care in the NHS. Things seem to be completely unpredictable - some of us on here have good experiences, some neutral, and some decidedly poor. I have very little contact with my practice - they class me as "well-controlled" so I am seen once a year when they do the MOT at the same time.

I'm around the same age and size as you, and I have found low carb eating, rather than low-calorie, to be most effective. My experience with low-calorie has been constant hunger, tiredness, and limited weight loss (which piled back on at the first opportunity). Atkins worked for me for weight loss but I had not then appreciated that it has an effect on blood glucose as well. I've found low carb (very low carb in my case) to be something that I can keep up (in my fourth year now), without hunger.

I'd recommend reading around a bit on the forum - there is a very wide range of experience and knowledge and I'm sure you'll find something helpful.

Hi Kenny
Thanks for your welcome. I've started reading the forum posts which are really interesting. I'm determined to stick to low carb as do not want a future of ill health and medical interventions and any short term deprivation seems preferable to that!!Its good to hear your success story - I've tried low carb before but always lapsed - I feel I've got to take it more seriously now due to my age!

 

[Sunnysky]

Hi Tricia
I've started testing just before eating and then 2 hours later. So far I've had some quite good results - my blood sugar was 6.7 before and 6.7 two hours after eating fried bacon, mushrooms, eggs and 1 slice of toast.
I'm not counting carbs atm but just reducing starchy carbs and measuring the effect. My main problem is dealing with the comfort eating which I do a lot of unfortunately. I'm trying to change my mindset completely about how I eat and what.
Helen x

 

[Sunnysky]

Going low carb lowered my blood sugars to non-diabetic levels, and my blood pressure came down too... Too much so even, I have to add salt to everything! https://josekalsbeek.blogspot.com/2019/11/the-nutritional-thingy.html might help some.

Personally I'd consider meds if I have absolutely no other choice whatsoever, as I respond rather badly to medication due to other conditions. So can't advise you there, not really. But if you really want to know what I'd do, then yeah. Low carb. It fixed my blood sugars, my cholesterol's fine, blood pressure even a tad low, weight better than it was... I'd say, go for it. (Forget calories though. Don't mix the low carb and low cal diets, your blood sugars aren't so dramatic that you need to take such measures.)

Good luck!
Jo

Thanks for all the info - a lot of people seem to get great results - hopefully that will be me in a few weeks

 

[Sunnysky]

I didn't get any help from the medics either, but as has been said, it's pure luck whether we get someone (or a team) that is good or indifferent. Some of us here have had a great deal of support, others .... not. So in the latter case, the best actions IMO are to gain as much knowledge as we can from reputable research, and there is plenty to be found via links on here as well as shared individual experience. We are all different, but we can each find methods of helping ourselves and sharing that experience to help others.

Knowledge is power, and we each have it in our power to increase our knowledge. It's great if we do get informed medical help, but if not, it isn't a tragedy, just makes things a bit lonelier. But, you know, it isn't as lonely as it could be because there is huge support here from us all.

For me personally, low carb healthy fat was - is - the game changer. Might well be the same for you.

Thankyou for your support. Seems like a great community here and I already feel a lot better for everyone's replies.

 

[Antje77]

My main problem is dealing with the comfort eating which I do a lot of unfortunately.

If not doing the comfort eating is too hard at the moment, have you considered comfort eating different things that don't push up your blood glucose?
Depending on your preferred comfort foods, we're likely able to come up with very tasty alternatives.
Diabetes is not about depriving yourself but about finding a balance you can keep for a long time, and if this balance needs comfort food sometimes, so be it.

 

[ianf0ster]

Thanks for all the info - a lot of people seem to get great results - hopefully that will be me in a few weeks

Hi @Sunnysky You are already starting to get great results! No BG spike at all at 2hrs after a meal is a great start and it isn't too difficult to do once you find out that it is possible.
That meal sounds like a breakfast, which is the best meal to tackle first since most people have a similar breakfast most days.
So now you know that your body can handle bacon, mushrooms and eggs.
Eggs form a great base for breakfasts and lunches, as do meats, fish, cheese and even plain full fat Greek Yogurt with a few berries/nuts/seeds.

Use you BG meter to find the foods that both your taste and your BG levels will like.

 

[MrsA2]

In a way the "what to eat" is easy to understand but the "why we eat" can be much more complex.
You might find Jen Unwins book "Fork in the road" interesting as well as the links in it and on her website to other resources.

Home | Fork in the Road | Guide to Low Carb Eating

Welcome to Fork in the Road! A website dedicated to sharing resources and tips on low carb eating. Helping people recover from Sugar Addiction

forkintheroad.co.uk

I also like the Australian 2 women doctors who focus on low carb for weight loss/health gain. They have a very practical approach to why people eat. Their podcasts are easy to listen to and their blogs supportive

Real Health and Weight Loss Podcast

Welcome to the Real Health and Weight Loss Podcast where you get Real advice from Real Doctors to help you lose weight and revolutionise your health not just now but permanently. You can change your future, starting now. Imagine if everything you had been told about weight loss was wrong.

www.rlmedicine.com

 

[AloeSvea]

Hi @Sunnysky. in my country the 'damage control' HBA1c is 53 and under, but in literature meant for medical professionals they pitch different HBA1cs for different age groups and ethnicities (much to my interest).

In my own diabetic life when my HBA1c went up to the 60s from longtime 'partial remission' I went on meds for the first time, metformin. When I have such an alarm going I try a whole bunch of treatments at the same time, so I don't know what can be attributed to which treatment, but it does give me a greater understanding how my particular diabetes plays out - always good info.

Anyhow - to you. If the very low calorie diet gave you normal blood glucose you can pretty well safely say you are sensitive in a good way to weight loss, or at the very least -a lot less food intake! The latter is not sustainable, unless you can be hungry for the rest of your life (my opinion at any rate), but, sustainable weight loss, and/or, lower blood glucose, where you are feeling well fed and full - is. And that's the LCHF route - however you want to do that on what kind of food, basically as long as it's lower carb, and upping the healthy fats as you lower the carbs.

I feel for you on the comfort food stakes. My own line is to substitute your old faves with low carb healthy fat versions, and for that you need to find them in your stores, or, make and bake in your own kitchen - whichever fits your life the best. When I was first diagnosed, in the countries I lived in, the low carb fare you could buy was very limited. This is not so any longer, due to the popularity of keto diets, I believe. I was delighted to find low carb/keto biscuits the other day in a standard supermarket - they were very expensive - but it was a treat not to have to bake low carb cookies. (I have one recipe which never fails.) At least on occasion. And you need to find a sweetener that suits you and stock up on that.

And, eat and meter, to find out which sweeteners or products from the store that suit your blood glucose - defnitely. Keep a food journal, however you like to do that. I portion control beloved high carb fruit, so I have a taste when in season, so I don't feel deprived. and I really enjoy that one peach off the tree per summer, those six grapes off the vine - that kind of thing. I had my one mandarin for the winter a week ago, and I got enormous pleasure from it. (But I was diagnosed at a high level - which is not your case.)

 

[Sunnysky]

If not doing the comfort eating is too hard at the moment, have you considered comfort eating different things that don't push up your blood glucose?
Depending on your preferred comfort foods, we're likely able to come up with very tasty alternatives.
Diabetes is not about depriving yourself but about finding a balance you can keep for a long time, and if this balance needs comfort food sometimes, so be it.

My main go to is usually bread with lots of butter and also bowls of cereals such as weetabix with milk and sugar - I usually just have an irresistible urge to go and get some food in the evenings and then end up with something like that. I used to buy cakes, biscuits and crisps etc as treats as well and eat the lot in one go so I suppose I need to really find something else!

 

[AloeSvea]

Yeah, @Sunnysky - bread and cereals = lots of carbs. Lots of carbs=higher blood glucose.

There are yummy 'no-grain grainolas' on the market these days, plus plenty of (not so yummy) low-carb breads, so you don't have to go cold-turkey. Just substitute.

 

[Sunnysky]

Hi @Sunnysky. in my country the 'damage control' HBA1c is 53 and under, but in literature meant for medical professionals they pitch different HBA1cs for different age groups and ethnicities (much to my interest).

In my own diabetic life when my HBA1c went up to the 60s from longtime 'partial remission' I went on meds for the first time, metformin. When I have such an alarm going I try a whole bunch of treatments at the same time, so I don't know what can be attributed to which treatment, but it does give me a greater understanding how my particular diabetes plays out - always good info.

Anyhow - to you. If the very low calorie diet gave you normal blood glucose you can pretty well safely say you are sensitive in a good way to weight loss, or at the very least -a lot less food intake! The latter is not sustainable, unless you can be hungry for the rest of your life (my opinion at any rate), but, sustainable weight loss, and/or, lower blood glucose, where you are feeling well fed and full - is. And that's the LCHF route - however you want to do that on what kind of food, basically as long as it's lower carb, and upping the healthy fats as you lower the carbs.

I feel for you on the comfort food stakes. My own line is to substitute your old faves with low carb healthy fat versions, and for that you need to find them in your stores, or, make and bake in your own kitchen - whichever fits your life the best. When I was first diagnosed, in the countries I lived in, the low carb fare you could buy was very limited. This is not so any longer, due to the popularity of keto diets, I believe. I was delighted to find low carb/keto biscuits the other day in a standard supermarket - they were very expensive - but it was a treat not to have to bake low carb cookies. (I have one recipe which never fails.) At least on occasion. And you need to find a sweetener that suits you and stock up on that.

And, eat and meter, to find out which sweeteners or products from the store that suit your blood glucose - defnitely. Keep a food journal, however you like to do that. I portion control beloved high carb fruit, so I have a taste when in season, so I don't feel deprived. and I really enjoy that one peach off the tree per summer, those six grapes off the vine - that kind of thing. I had my one mandarin for the winter a week ago, and I got enormous pleasure from it. (But I was diagnosed at a high level - which is not your case.)

Thanks for your reply AloeSvea. Which country are you from if you don't mind me asking? It's interesting to read how different countries decide what counts as diabetic.
I'm thinking of maybe buying or making some low carb bread to make it a bit easier at this stage. It seems really expensive here in the UK though although everything else is as well due to inflation.
Thanks for your insight that weight loss is part of my solution. I do tend to eat a lot and suppose this must raise blood sugar more even if its all low carb. I don't know if I'm right about this though.
This evening I had chicken thighs cooked with red peppers, onions, courgettes and garlic but then felt I needed to have a few savoury oat biscuits with stilton cheese and then a large pear with some Greek yoghurt. My blood sugar to start was only 5 as it had been 6 hours since I'd last eaten. However 2 hours after eating it had gone up to 8.5. So it was either the pear and oat biscuits or the amount I'd eaten. I suppose I'll get to find out the more I monitor things.

 

[Sunnysky]

Yeah, @Sunnysky - bread and cereals = lots of carbs. Lots of carbs=higher blood glucose.

There are yummy 'no-grain grainolas' on the market these days, plus plenty of (not so yummy) low-carb breads, so you don't have to go cold-turkey. Just substitute.

Yes I know - do you have any recommendations for particular brands?

 

[Sunnysky]

In a way the "what to eat" is easy to understand but the "why we eat" can be much more complex.
You might find Jen Unwins book "Fork in the road" interesting as well as the links in it and on her website to other resources.

Home | Fork in the Road | Guide to Low Carb Eating

Welcome to Fork in the Road! A website dedicated to sharing resources and tips on low carb eating. Helping people recover from Sugar Addiction

forkintheroad.co.uk

I also like the Australian 2 women doctors who focus on low carb for weight loss/health gain. They have a very practical approach to why people eat. Their podcasts are easy to listen to and their blogs supportive

Real Health and Weight Loss Podcast

Welcome to the Real Health and Weight Loss Podcast where you get Real advice from Real Doctors to help you lose weight and revolutionise your health not just now but permanently. You can change your future, starting now. Imagine if everything you had been told about weight loss was wrong.

www.rlmedicine.com

Thanks for the links - I look forward to reading them.

 

[Antje77]

My main go to is usually bread with lots of butter and also bowls of cereals such as weetabix with milk and sugar - I usually just have an irresistible urge to go and get some food in the evenings and then end up with something like that. I used to buy cakes, biscuits and crisps etc as treats as well and eat the lot in one go so I suppose I need to really find something else!

There are some pretty decent low carb bread alternatives (but none as good as real, fresh, fluffy bread, alas), and even those taste great with a thick layer of butter. Butter is a great comfort food for being filling, creamy, and diabetes is perfectly fine with butter

Cereals like weetabix are a hard one, but would you by any chance like full fat Greek yoghurt with strawberries instead? Or double cream with grated dark chocolate? (Or both together of course. )

Cheese is great, and so are cheese crisps. They're easily made by microwaving thinly sliced or grated cheese for a couple of minutes on a baking sheet.

There are many recipes for low carb cakes as well, so making your own could be an option?

but then felt I needed to have a few savoury oat biscuits with stilton cheese and then a large pear with some Greek yoghurt.

Would your cravings be satisfied with the stilton without the bicuits and the yoghurt without the pear? Or just part of the pear?

 

[AloeSvea]

I live in Aotearoa/New Zealand, a big food producing country. But our food costs us a bomb,as we have a mafia like grip thing going from two supermarket companies.

Same here re low-carb food being really expensive, especially compared to a cheap sugary food item like weetbix, sadly.

One is in the diabetes zone at an HBA1c of 50 and above here.

My country's target HBA1c's - 48 and less for those under 40 years old, an HBA1c of 53 and under “appropriate for most people”, and an HBA1c of 54-70 if “Hypoglycaemic risk outweighs benefits of lower target”.