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Newbie trying Newcastle diet.

I too find keeping up lots of exercise while on a ND/VLCD very challenging. Especially when clocking up the kilometres/miles. And was very interested to see the in ketosis or not post - as I have been wondering about that too. I walked a couple of kilometres to get to where I am at the mo', something I did regularly before the ND without any effort, but I really noticed the difficulty of putting one foot in front of the other in the last ten minutes of walking, and that has been the norm for me in the last couple of weeks. (The first week I found walking at all very hard, and certainly did not go on long walks. Now I can walk a couple a kilometres, but am pretty slow towards the end.) (And I had to up my calorie count, to be able to go on those walks.)

It makes sense to me, that when semi-starving, exercise is challenging. People are different though? Ketosis or not? I normally eat a lot of protein, and am a muscley sort (interrelated I believe), and of course I am not now, on a much reduced food intake. I was relieved to read/see/hear Dr Fuhrman say that some people do not find the point of NOT feeling hunger or discomfort for three or even four weeks into a fast/VLCD. I wonder if I will ever be able to move/exercise normally on it, actually. (I have stopped doing wall-pressups, which I rather enjoyed, let alone the squats, too, sadly.) (Cooking and shopping, and basic walking is the best I can do during this time.)

I have some added complexity in the weather - I have to walk in big boots and through snow and on ice (which tends to be rather on the ginger side!) (That's my excuse and I sticking to it!)

But yes - re ketosis and nutritional issues. Get ketosis pee stix? I have been thinking about it. That way one can see? But they are not cheap where I am. Nutrition is a big subject when you are surviving on much less than you need. My muscles (which I am normally rather into, I must admit) just must take a back seat while I am starving, or semi starving.... Is it really much more complex than that? (I am very open to hearing what anyone thinks.)
 
AloeSvea said:
I too find keeping up lots of exercise while on a ND/VLCD very challenging. Especially when clocking up the kilometres/miles. And was very interested to see the in ketosis or not post - as I have been wondering about that too. I walked a couple of kilometres to get to where I am at the mo', something I did regularly before the ND without any effort, but I really noticed the difficulty of putting one foot in front of the other in the last ten minutes of walking, and that has been the norm for me in the last couple of weeks. (The first week I found walking at all very hard, and certainly did not go on long walks. Now I can walk a couple a kilometres, but am pretty slow towards the end.) (And I had to up my calorie count, to be able to go on those walks.)

It makes sense to me, that when semi-starving, exercise is challenging. People are different though? Ketosis or not? I normally eat a lot of protein, and am a muscley sort (interrelated I believe), and of course I am not now, on a much reduced food intake. I was relieved to read/see/hear Dr Fuhrman say that some people do not find the point of NOT feeling hunger or discomfort for three or even four weeks into a fast/VLCD. I wonder if I will ever be able to move/exercise normally on it, actually. (I have stopped doing wall-pressups, which I rather enjoyed, let alone the squats, too, sadly.) (Cooking and shopping, and basic walking is the best I can do during this time.)

I have some added complexity in the weather - I have to walk in big boots and through snow and on ice (which tends to be rather on the ginger side!) (That's my excuse and I sticking to it!)

But yes - re ketosis and nutritional issues. Get ketosis pee stix? I have been thinking about it. That way one can see? But they are not cheap where I am. Nutrition is a big subject when you are surviving on much less than you need. My muscles (which I am normally rather into, I must admit) just must take a back seat while I am starving, or semi starving.... Is it really much more complex than that? (I am very open to hearing what anyone thinks.)
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Did you lose weight every week? I am sticking to the diet religiously and not losing this week. I am also having an issue with constipation. what shakes did you use?
 
Sorry to hear that you have been struggling and I am sure you will think with this post that its easier said than done but I really do feel but then think of the end result which could be miraculous, I hope that result will keep you pushing.
This is what my biggest fear with ND is, I cant stay hungry, the moment I am hungry I need something to eat there and then, at the moment I take nuts or cheese to get over the hunger which is low carb and high fat but if I am like you on the diet I will i am sure be very hungry, and I have a very very stressful job to deal with coz of which I can hardly even go to my appointments.
 
The little white hen said:
I've said it before, there is more than one way to skin a cat. I am looking at LCHF when I come of the ND. Being healthy and having the diabetes under control is all we are all after really. How we do it is up to each of us. Can I ask if you have a partner or family and if they do the LCHF diet with you?
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If I may contribute? - My VLCD is a mini version of my normal Paleo/low carb and lots of veg and protein diet. (I am normally on a modified Paleo diet, which is very similar to a LCHF.) My own family - a grown daughter and my partner - have been very supportive of a greatly changed family diet since I became T2D, and they were open to the new food and cooking methods, which helped. (Especially as it was my partner who suggested the paleo/low carb thing). My daughter is a vegetarian, so that was an extra challenge.
I have had to learn how to cook in a whole new way, an offshoot from my diagnosis that has been very positive - as I eat really well now (normally! when not on a VLCD!) Actually - I eat very well on the VLCD, in terms of taste and quality - there is just not enough of it of course!

What I generally do when cooking is offer the option of pasta and rice to my family, and I will do my zucchini 'pasta' strips for me. (I don't know what I would do without the wonderful zucchini. Me being a lover of pasta in the past.) But my partner says he likes the greens I use as substitutes (also cauliflower 'rice' for instance), so this is good. (Saves the extra cooking - always a relief, when it is just us.) My daughter always says yes to the pasta! And I just look at it with some desire when I remove it from the pot, but relish my zucchini strips instead (pan-cooked in coconut oil - yum!).
I am not hard-line though - normally (when not on a VLCD), if I really longed for pasta I would have a taste to satisfy the urge. Or just have a treat dinner of lasagna to share with my pasta-mad daughter, once a month or something, but just as a treat. That's how I integrate carbs, and no carbs into family cooking at any rate.
 
AloeSvea said:
If I may contribute? - My VLCD is a mini version of my normal Paleo/low carb and lots of veg and protein diet. (I am normally on a modified Paleo diet, which is very similar to a LCHF.) My own family - a grown daughter and my partner - have been very supportive of a greatly changed family diet since I became T2D, and they were open to the new food and cooking methods, which helped. (Especially as it was my partner who suggested the paleo/low carb thing). My daughter is a vegetarian, so that was an extra challenge.
I have had to learn how to cook in a whole new way, an offshoot from my diagnosis that has been very positive - as I eat really well now (normally! when not on a VLCD!) Actually - I eat very well on the VLCD, in terms of taste and quality - there is just not enough of it of course!

What I generally do when cooking is offer the option of pasta and rice to my family, and I will do my zucchini 'pasta' strips for me. (I don't know what I would do without the wonderful zucchini. Me being a lover of pasta in the past.) But my partner says he likes the greens I use as substitutes (also cauliflower 'rice' for instance), so this is good. (Saves the extra cooking - always a relief, when it is just us.) My daughter always says yes to the pasta! And I just look at it with some desire when I remove it from the pot, but relish my zucchini strips instead (pan-cooked in coconut oil - yum!).
I am not hard-line though - normally (when not on a VLCD), if I really longed for pasta I would have a taste to satisfy the urge. Or just have a treat dinner of lasagna to share with my pasta-mad daughter, once a month or something, but just as a treat. That's how I integrate carbs, and no carbs into family cooking at any rate.
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that's great thanks. What worries me is if I do LCHF and then my family eat that and have additional carbs they will put weight on.
 
The little white hen said:
that's great thanks. What worries me is if I do LCHF and then my family eat that and have additional carbs they will put weight on.
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Are you family already carrying any weight? Most habitually "normal" weight people have an efficient "full up" signal that tells them to stop eating when they've had enough.

If they do start to gain weight, then reduce their carb portions. If you cook, to a huge extent, you're in control.

My father used to say, "hunger makes good kitchen", or put another way, if you're hungry enough you will be more flax ingle inwardly you are willing to eat.
 
brettsza said:
Sorry to hear that you have been struggling and I am sure you will think with this post that its easier said than done but I really do feel but then think of the end result which could be miraculous, I hope that result will keep you pushing.
This is what my biggest fear with ND is, I cant stay hungry, the moment I am hungry I need something to eat there and then, at the moment I take nuts or cheese to get over the hunger which is low carb and high fat but if I am like you on the diet I will i am sure be very hungry, and I have a very very stressful job to deal with coz of which I can hardly even go to my appointments.
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I can live with the hunger as I am very motivated to put diabetes in remission. I am finding the feeling so tired the hardest and hoping that will pass soon.
 
AndBreathe said:
Are you family already carrying any weight? Most habitually "normal" weight people have an efficient "full up" signal that tells them to stop eating when they've had enough.

If they do start to gain weight, then reduce their carb portions. If you cook, to a huge extent, you're in control.

My father used to say, "hunger makes good kitchen", or put another way, if you're hungry enough you will be more flax ingle inwardly you are willing to eat.
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My husband could do with losing a few more pounds, but we have all reduced our portion sizes since I was diagnosed in 2011. They have been very supportive and I feel we have already made good progress with what and how much we eat. It's just good to get tips from those who are a little further along the path.
 
Flashtash2014 said:
Yep gradually loss less but reduced the shakes from 3 to 2 without missing the 3rd one
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Thanks, I think I am getting weighted too much, going to just make it once a week and see if that helps. End of week 2 on Monday, getting weighed and measured on Tuesday. I have drank more water the last two days and feel less hungry. Its hard to drink 4 ltrs in a day but I have managed it.
 
The little white hen said:
Thanks, I think I am getting weighted too much, going to just make it once a week and see if that helps. End of week 2 on Monday, getting weighed and measured on Tuesday. I have drank more water the last two days and feel less hungry. Its hard to drink 4 ltrs in a day but I have managed it.
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Could you have something like peppermint tea? It's only peppermint leaves, so pretty much nothing, but a pleasant flavour.

Here in the heat, I quite often have chilled peppermint tea when I can't source no sugar added squashes, as I need to ensure I keep my fluids up.
 
AndBreathe said:
Could you have something like peppermint tea? It's only peppermint leaves, so pretty much nothing, but a pleasant flavour.

Here in the heat, I quite often have chilled peppermint tea when I can't source no sugar added squashes, as I need to ensure I keep my fluids up.
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I could not function on my 'deviated ND' without herb tea, and mint teas are part of my herb tea menu, for sure. Otherwise, drinking the litres of water as just water would be oppressive indeed!

I also love cinnamon tea - and cinnamon is a wonder spice for diabetics (as in help with lowering blood sugar levels, so it is said). (I cannot rightly estimate the amount of cinnamon in food I have consumed in the last eight months since diagnosis! Masses of it!) Herb teas are quite pricey, or the really yummy ones can be, but boy are they worth it when semi-starving! (Also adding lime juice to bottles of water in the fridge, too, cuts into heaps of 'water oppression' too :-).)
 
The little white hen said:
Struggling in week two completely stuck to the diet, no cheats at all. I feel hungry everyday, especially in the evening after I have had my veg meal. Got on the scales this morning lost nothing at all. To say I'm gutted is an understatement. Did this happen to any of those of you who have been on the ND before? Also without wanting to go into to much detail, suffering from constipation, which is not helping. Any tips to help.
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Fibreclear supplement added to drinks helps.
Celery fibres help too. Also more green leafy veg like cabbage, kale, spinach.
I found drinking more than 3 litres of water made me feel hungry. Space water consumption evenly through the day. If all that fails see pharmacist and get Senakot tablets.
 
The little white hen said:
that's great thanks. What worries me is if I do LCHF and then my family eat that and have additional carbs they will put weight on.
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My daughter absolutely did not gain weight on lots of dietary fat (for her it was in the eggs, the dairy, and the odd guacamole with her tortillas, and the tons of coconut oil I cooked with and baked with). She was slim, and she is still slim. She also walks a lot.

Also she became very knowledgable about the dangers of trans fats, and of course - sugar - from me becoming T2Diabetic, so cut down on the amount of takeaways she bought when out and about with her friends and away from my table. And she cut down hugely on things like soda pops/fizzy drinks - a dynamite drink for the diabetic and family members worrying about insulin overproduction themselves. And she cut down on fruit juice at my table post diagnosis. We have a lot of water bottles of all kinds in the house!

My partner just weighed himself, for this post, and said he is the same weight as before my diagnosis and the change of our family diet. And he is a carb fan! But, it must be sad, naturally very skinny and tall to boot. Those crackers and the home-baked sourdough bread just seem to disappear in him. (Ditto high-carb beer!)

Also, passing on my own experience, since diagnosis and going paleo, I ate a lot of extra dietary fat - avocados, tons of eggs, shellfish, oily fish, beef, poultry, and heaps and heaps of coconut oil. And I lost a lot of weight - going from 85-90 kg to the 70-71 kg I was when I started the deviated ND. (Now it is about semi-starving, as you know.) But I also exercised a lot too, and I have a hearty appetite by nature. I think it is always a matter of the individual matching themselves with their diet, or type of diet. And lots of good fats and animal and seafood suits me well. One just has to eat and meter! And eat and weigh perhaps? (I am not big on weighing - I only do it now because of the ND. But all you really do need to do is look in the mirror, and I have been very dilligent in measuring my belly, as belly fat was a big part of my becoming T2Diabetic.) Then see what suits you, and your family too.

My thoughts are - your family are not going to put on weight with the tons of vegetables and fruit in your new diet - and fruit and veg are such quality food - nutrient dense, full of micronutrients, and relatively low in calories - my thinking is it can only be good for your family. The carbs would be the 'disposable calories' or nutrients, if you like, if I can talk about carbs that way. And as they have been eating them anyway.....

As for the dietary fat/healthy saturated fat - apparently we have not evolved to put on weight with it (at least the good fats), contrary to what we have heard in the last 30 or so years. Our bodies and our brains LOVE it. Or so I have come to learn. I do not know, read about, or heard about a soul who has gained body-fat weight on LCHF, or a Paleo diet. Honest.
 
The little white hen said:
I can live with the hunger as I am very motivated to put diabetes in remission. I am finding the feeling so tired the hardest and hoping that will pass soon.
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Have you been on a VLCD before? The reason I ask is because I went on one several years ago and only lost about 8lbs in 2 months (about what others on the same diet lost in a week). In addition to that I felt ill and tired whilst on it until eventually my doctor told me to come off it because my metabolism had slowed to the point where my body was, quite literally, shutting down.
 
The little white hen said:
we have all reduced our portion sizes since I was diagnosed in 2011. .
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I would like to say, as a hearty eater, I have NEVER reduced my portion sizes (when not NDing) and I lost weight, lots of it, on a really healthy diet. But I am a physically active person by nature (even when plump, but I became more active after diagnosis.) It all depends on your nature? And your height and size? And your metabolism? But I like to say "phooey to reduced portions"! :-).
 
The little white hen said:
Did you lose weight every week? I am sticking to the diet religiously and not losing this week. I am also having an issue with constipation. what shakes did you use?
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Constipation: Yes, Richard Doughty had an issue with constipation as well. And yes - me too. (My grandmother would kill me for talking about this issue in public! lol.)

No shakes: I am on a 'deviated ND' and eating food, and I raised my total calorie intake from 700-800 to 800-900, so I could have a calorie-rich green juice every day and still eat food that would be more likely to satiate me.

On eating very little food and regularity: (My grandmother would have preferred me to choose the word 'regularity' ;-).) I found 'an apple a day' did the trick, and baked my apple with cinnamon and a couple of chopped prunes - and that REALLY helped with regularity, as well as being wonderfully yummy, lovely and hot with me in the cold, reasonably low calorie and great for breakfast until I got sick of it.

Richard Doughty and the legends in this forum who've gone this route, all talk about making sure one has enough water/liquid, which helps regularity too, apparently. (Also helps with the elimination of toxic waste that is probably being released into the bloodstream along with the breakdown of your fat deposits, something I am very aware of, as one loses body fat.)

When prunes do not do it, I found the very odd intake of a fibrous vegetable or two or three, to be wonderful for pushing it all through, as it were. We're talking a tiny weeny bit of sweet potato, (and a tiny bit of parsnip, and a teeny tiny bit of potato) on a VLCD, but roasted in animal fat, in its skin, in the paleo fashion, as is my wont. I can only dream of the unlimited amounts of oven-baked kuumara I used to eat before the 'deviated ND'. Sigh.

Weight loss: I am no expert on weight loss, but perhaps it goes in fits and starts? For me, I have gone from 71 kg to 66 kg in nearly four weeks. But it was not an even drop (like some people have on a VLCD). My metabolism has always been highly sensitive to exercise and food intake. (Ditto one of my adult children's - who I am watching like a hawk for signs of insulin overproduction and blood glucose problems - my poor son!)

But it is my Fasting Blood Glucose level I am really paying attention to, which is lowered to such an extent - along with my improved HBA1c, which was steadily dropping before the ND - I have officially become pre-diabetic to the medical professionals overseeing my VLCD.
 
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