Does over eating give you Type 2 diabetes or does diabetes make you over eat

[Cl1ve]

Hi I've just read an article that has found some new evidence that it is the diabetes that is making people put on weight not the Weight giving people diabetes . There is some research going on at the moment that diabetes switches of the chemical that tells us when we are full so we eat more .if this is the case there are a lot of people who think that it must be are fault as we must have eaten to much . I'm thin and I'm type2 and have been told it's genetic . My friend was over weight and he got it by being big

 

[tim2000s]

There are a number of factors affecting why you become T2 diabetic. It's worth a read of both Jenny Ruhl's website and Jason Fung's.

Suffice to say that there is increasing evidence that T2 diabetes has a large number of genetic triggers and the general lifestyle of the western world seems to actuate those triggers far more than anyone realised. Whilst there is not yet a full body of scientific evidence, what there is seems to suggest that the result of these factors causes hyperinsulinemia and hyperglycaemia, giving rise to T2.

Whether that lifestyle includes such things as overeating is a different question.

 

[SunnyExpat]

I overate. More from habit and availability. So I'd say overeating came first for me.
When I made the conscious decision to eat less I lost weight, and controlled my diabetes.

I felt hungry though, so I'd got used to eating too much.

I still feel hungry now, but I also know if I eat too much, even LCHF, I will pile weight back on, so I limit myself.

 

[mo53]

An interesting thread. Thank you.

 

[Cl1ve]

With ref to sunnyexpat . The paper I read is saying that type2 starts a long time before it is detected so the over eating can be a early symptom of diabetes . And may not be the corse . So your over eating may have been the start . The paper I read was on the website
Diabetes room 101 . But it is only the start there is a lot more to study as yet . I think a lot of people feel guilty when they are over weight and are told they have diabetes . I'm hoping that this study can remove that guilt that will be one thing less to cope with went first diagnosed .
Clive

 

[SunnyExpat]

With ref to sunnyexpat . The paper I read is saying that type2 starts a long time before it is detected so the over eating can be a early symptom of diabetes . And may not be the corse . So your over eating may have been the start . The paper I read was on the website
Diabetes room 101 . But it is only the start there is a lot more to study as yet . I think a lot of people feel guilty when they are over weight and are told they have diabetes . I'm hoping that this study can remove that guilt that will be one thing less to cope with went first diagnosed .
Clive

It would be nice to agree with that, but I think I went from being active to being sedentary, having a better income, eating a lot more over many years, and with an eating pattern that favoured eating in the evening, and a lot of processed food.
I didn't only eat when I was hungry, I ate when I expected to be eating.
Then I took control, stopped eating and set a new routine up, which worked for me.

So I believe in my case, the eating did lead to the diabetes, not the other way around.

 

[catinahat]

I've copied a few paragraphs from this page at blood sugar 101( you did not eat your way to diabetes )

Don't fall for the toxic myth that you caused your diabetes by reckless overeating. While people with diabetes often are seriously overweight, there is accumulating evidence that their overweight is a symptom, not the cause of the process that leads to Type 2 Diabetes.

While people who have diabetes are often heavy, one out of five people diagnosed with diabetes are thin or normal weight. And though heavy people with diabetes are, indeed, likely to be insulin resistant, the majority of people who are overweight will never develop diabetes. In fact, they will not develop diabetes though they are likely to be just as insulin resistant as those who do--or even more so.

The message that diabetes researchers in academic laboratories are coming up with about what really causes diabetes is quite different from what you read in the media. What they are finding is that to get Type 2 Diabetes you need to have some combination of a variety of already-identified genetic flaws which produce the syndrome that we call Type 2 Diabetes. This means that unless you have inherited abnormal genes or had your genes damaged by exposure to pesticides, plastics and other environmental toxins known to cause genetic damage, you can eat until you drop and never develop diabetes.

Long before a person develops diabetes, they go through a phase where they have what doctors called "impaired glucose tolerance." This means that after they eat a meal containing carbohydrates, their blood sugar rockets up and may stay high for an hour or two before dropping back to a normal level.

What most people don't know is that when blood sugar moves swiftly up or down most people will experience intense hunger. The reasons for this are not completely clear. But what is certain is that this intense hunger caused by blood sugar swings can develop years before a person's blood sugar reaches the level where they'll be diagnosed as diabetic.

This relentless hunger, in fact, is often the very first diabetic symptom a person will experience, though most doctors do not recognize this hunger as a symptom. Instead, if you complain of experiencing intense hunger doctors may suggest you need an antidepressant or blame your weight gain, if you are female, on menopausal changes.

This relentless hunger caused by impaired glucose tolerance almost always leads to significant weight gain and an increase in insulin resistance. However, because it can take ten years between the time your blood sugar begins to rise steeply after meals and the time when your fasting blood sugar is abnormal enough for you to be diagnosed with diabetes, most people are, indeed, very fat at the time of diagnosis.

 

[Pinkorchid]

Are they determined to make us feel guilty that getting diabetes is purely our own fault. I think the truth is that as yet no one really knows what causes it as there does not seem to be any common factor in everyone that has it that they can pinpoint. People get it no matter what their lifestyle or culture is, if they are overweight, really slim, eat a lot, eat a little, some have it in their families some don't, many have other medical problems while others have always been healthy The truth is we are all so totally different and they may never find the cause

 

[Cl1ve]

I can remember a few years back when my friend told me that he was type2 diabetic and was so ashamed as it was his fault
I think the link is there . But we need more evidence . I'm thin and don't over eat and never have yet I have type2 so for me weight was never a factor . Have a look at the website ( blood sugar room 101) look for . You did not eat your way to diabetes . you may find it interesting . It may not be the case for you but worth a read
Clive

 

[ButtterflyLady]

I agree with Jenny Ruhl's view that insulin resistance drives overeating. She's read the scientific literature that I'm too lazy to read, lol.

There's a lot of T2 in my family, and some T1 as well. I have been an overeater for as long as I can remember. In childhood pictures I started looking overweight from about the age of 5. It really took off in my early 30s and I started noticing wildly fluctuating BGs then. By 38 I had T2. Since then I have lost several stone and went from a BMI of 46 to 27 in a year.

I'm not responsible for the way I was allowed to overeat as a child but I can turn it around now. I don't believe that my overeating even as an adult was totally down to my choice to overeat, but certainly I chose to stop doing it. It doesn't matter now. All that matters is what we choose to do today.

 

[Cl1ve]

Hi catinahat . Thanks for putting that in for me . I did not know how to do it
Clive

 

[AndBreathe]

Professor Taylor, in one of his presentation videos, uses an bicycle to illustrate the cycle of overeating<>insulin resistance<>weight gain<>. That, the addictive nature of carbohydrate and habit/social convention create the chicken/egg scenario under discussion here.

In tackling my own condition, I found it easier to split my thinking time dedicated to reviewing the past and planning the future to be highly geared to looking forward. I think it is useful to acknowledge the past, and in particular consider our relationship with food; whether we exhibit addiction markers or not, but we can't change any of that. All we can ever change is today and the future.

 

[Pinkorchid]

I've copied a few paragraphs from this page at blood sugar 101( you did not eat your way to diabetes )

Don't fall for the toxic myth that you caused your diabetes by reckless overeating. While people with diabetes often are seriously overweight, there is accumulating evidence that their overweight is a symptom, not the cause of the process that leads to Type 2 Diabetes.

While people who have diabetes are often heavy, one out of five people diagnosed with diabetes are thin or normal weight. And though heavy people with diabetes are, indeed, likely to be insulin resistant, the majority of people who are overweight will never develop diabetes. In fact, they will not develop diabetes though they are likely to be just as insulin resistant as those who do--or even more so.

The message that diabetes researchers in academic laboratories are coming up with about what really causes diabetes is quite different from what you read in the media. What they are finding is that to get Type 2 Diabetes you need to have some combination of a variety of already-identified genetic flaws which produce the syndrome that we call Type 2 Diabetes. This means that unless you have inherited abnormal genes or had your genes damaged by exposure to pesticides, plastics and other environmental toxins known to cause genetic damage, you can eat until you drop and never develop diabetes.

Long before a person develops diabetes, they go through a phase where they have what doctors called "impaired glucose tolerance." This means that after they eat a meal containing carbohydrates, their blood sugar rockets up and may stay high for an hour or two before dropping back to a normal level.

What most people don't know is that when blood sugar moves swiftly up or down most people will experience intense hunger. The reasons for this are not completely clear. But what is certain is that this intense hunger caused by blood sugar swings can develop years before a person's blood sugar reaches the level where they'll be diagnosed as diabetic.

This relentless hunger, in fact, is often the very first diabetic symptom a person will experience, though most doctors do not recognize this hunger as a symptom. Instead, if you complain of experiencing intense hunger doctors may suggest you need an antidepressant or blame your weight gain, if you are female, on menopausal changes.

This relentless hunger caused by impaired glucose tolerance almost always leads to significant weight gain and an increase in insulin resistance. However, because it can take ten years between the time your blood sugar begins to rise steeply after meals and the time when your fasting blood sugar is abnormal enough for you to be diagnosed with diabetes, most people are, indeed, very fat at the time of diagnosis.

I was found to have a glucose intolerance over 10 years ago after 2 glucose tolerance tests but I have never experienced relentless hunger or been a big eater I think my appetite would be classed as normal. I have never been a big starchy carb eater and I have never been overweight and no history of T2 in my family although most of the women on my mothers side were overweight but I took after my fathers side for being slim and I have always been healthy and now I am 76 with no other medical problems so nothing points to it with me
I was still classed as prediabetic at last years blood test but still have to have this years test so who knows I may well have tipped over the edge now

 

[tim2000s]

In many ways I think the insulin Resistance -> overeating cycle is similar to the T1 issues of no insulin, eating tons of stuff and not putting weight on.

Both are the result of the body not processing the food properly. The end result in both cases is just different.

 

[ickihun]

I've copied a few paragraphs from this page at blood sugar 101( you did not eat your way to diabetes )

Don't fall for the toxic myth that you caused your diabetes by reckless overeating. While people with diabetes often are seriously overweight, there is accumulating evidence that their overweight is a symptom, not the cause of the process that leads to Type 2 Diabetes.

While people who have diabetes are often heavy, one out of five people diagnosed with diabetes are thin or normal weight. And though heavy people with diabetes are, indeed, likely to be insulin resistant, the majority of people who are overweight will never develop diabetes. In fact, they will not develop diabetes though they are likely to be just as insulin resistant as those who do--or even more so.

The message that diabetes researchers in academic laboratories are coming up with about what really causes diabetes is quite different from what you read in the media. What they are finding is that to get Type 2 Diabetes you need to have some combination of a variety of already-identified genetic flaws which produce the syndrome that we call Type 2 Diabetes. This means that unless you have inherited abnormal genes or had your genes damaged by exposure to pesticides, plastics and other environmental toxins known to cause genetic damage, you can eat until you drop and never develop diabetes.

Long before a person develops diabetes, they go through a phase where they have what doctors called "impaired glucose tolerance." This means that after they eat a meal containing carbohydrates, their blood sugar rockets up and may stay high for an hour or two before dropping back to a normal level.

What most people don't know is that when blood sugar moves swiftly up or down most people will experience intense hunger. The reasons for this are not completely clear. But what is certain is that this intense hunger caused by blood sugar swings can develop years before a person's blood sugar reaches the level where they'll be diagnosed as diabetic.

This relentless hunger, in fact, is often the very first diabetic symptom a person will experience, though most doctors do not recognize this hunger as a symptom. Instead, if you complain of experiencing intense hunger doctors may suggest you need an antidepressant or blame your weight gain, if you are female, on menopausal changes.

This relentless hunger caused by impaired glucose tolerance almost always leads to significant weight gain and an increase in insulin resistance. However, because it can take ten years between the time your blood sugar begins to rise steeply after meals and the time when your fasting blood sugar is abnormal enough for you to be diagnosed with diabetes, most people are, indeed, very fat at the time of diagnosis.

I have to agree. I had thrush at the age of six. Only diagnosed/tested for diabetes when I was 31yrs old. I'm 8 stone overweight.

 

[AndBreathe]

I can remember a few years back when my friend told me that he was type2 diabetic and was so ashamed as it was his fault
I think the link is there . But we need more evidence . I'm thin and don't over eat and never have yet I have type2 so for me weight was never a factor . Have a look at the website ( blood sugar room 101) look for . You did not eat your way to diabetes . you may find it interesting . It may not be the case for you but worth a read
Clive

The thing about weight is that we don't know where our Personal Fat Threshold (PFT) is, or indeed if the trigger for breaching that PFT remains static. Due to the already documented beliefs that with the progression of age, our whole systems, including pancreas, liver et al, becomes slightly less efficient, there is some consideration to the potential that due to those age related weakened efficiencies the PFT effectively lowers. This could suggest T2 could be found in those described as effectively unchanged over the years.

Other considerations are that over the years, "normal eating" habits have mutated, and where we might eat largely the same meals, we may prepare them differently, have "treats" more regularly or even just be more inclined to use things like gravy granules, rather than roasting tin gravy. These examples are highly generic and just examples, but there are very, very few of us who truthfully eat exactly as we did 20 years ago (ignoring any dietary changes as a result of our various diagnosis).

 

[Cl1ve]

Hi ickihun . Your case could be one where an early diagnosis could have caught your diabetes before you started putting on weight
Hope all is well now and how is your weight going if OK to ask
Clive

 

[mekalu2k4]

I was found to have a glucose intolerance over 10 years ago after 2 glucose tolerance tests ....
I was still classed as prediabetic at last years blood test but still have to have this years test so who knows I may well have tipped over the edge now

Excellent. You/ your body are/is able to keep T2 away even after 10 years. But for knowledge sake, you may also post your details - diet patterns, movement levels (like sedentary, active etc), types of exercises, and body weight variations over the years etc. I will be looking forward for any advises on avoiding T2D based your experiences.

 

[Brunneria]

I had insulin/blood glucose issues for a good decade before the weight started piling on.

This was a long time ago, so there were no routine Pre-D fasting tests, or anything like that, but I was having hypos and carb cravings, with no weight gain for a very loooong time, then something else hormonal changed, or my beta cells decided to work to rule, and the weight went on.

It is a very complex issue, but I am tempted to think that many slim T2s are actually T1s. And others are just in the pre-weight gain phase. Or have gained weight in the liver, or... the variations are numerous. Unfortunately, I lack the research funding to check this out thoroughly!

 

[Scardoc]

"While people who have diabetes are often heavy, one out of five people diagnosed with diabetes are thin or normal weight"

"I think the truth is that as yet no one really knows what causes it as there does not seem to be any common factor in everyone that has it that they can pinpoint."

People focus on the cause and hope that by doing so they will find a cure. However, the statistics tell us that 80% of T2’s on diagnosis are overweight or obese and that as the obesity levels in the general population have risen so too has the number of T2’s being diagnosed.

This does not equate directly to the cause but does result in the major risk factor for developing T2 being overweight or obese. Eliminating the major risk factor is key.

The issue I have with the concept of overeating being caused by diabetes is that the question then surely has to be: why have we not always had high levels of T2? What has fundamentally changed in the last 30 years? Blood sugar 101 may claim it’s damage to our genes from pesticide exposure, plastics and other toxins but would genetic mutations from these areas impact the population so quickly?

Perhaps other sociological changes such as mechanisation, sedentary lifestyle, convenience food etc, which have all been rapid changes, would have a more immediate impact? Genetic changes have to be passed through generations. Sociological changes can work in months.