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Does over eating give you Type 2 diabetes or does diabetes make you over eat

Discussion in 'Diabetes Discussions' started by Cl1ve, Sep 24, 2015.

  1. Pinkorchid

    Pinkorchid Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    My diet is simple no sugar stuff moderate carbs good oils rather than saturated fat and meals cooked from scratch as I have always done. Not really subscribed to the fast foods/takeaways age so have had very little of that. I occasionally eat a slice of Burgen Linseed and Soya bread have a few new potatoes sometimes but I never eat pasta or rice because I don't like them. I eat all other vegetables,salad and fruit no red meat like beef lamb or pork or anything made from them so mostly chicken and fish with an occasional venison or ostrich steak because they are virtually fat free and I do love cheese but not one for cream or butter I find them to rich
    My weight has never really fluctuated always a skinny child and for most of my adult life always weighed under 9st and now weigh about 8st 11lb. My exercise in the past was keeping busy bringing up my 4 children now it is walking my dog every day. I am lucky that at my age 76 I don't have any mobility problems and I am in good health with no other medical conditions so I believe this helps me
     
  2. Cl1ve

    Cl1ve Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Hi . I'm the same I've don't use sugar anymore all my food is home cooked and I've started eating whole grains . I do have a problem as I've also got osteoporosis so I have to try and drink milk and have foods high in calcium but I've think I've got it under control my last blood test told me I was low on calcium so I've had to up my intake
    Clive
     
  3. Neemo

    Neemo Type 1 · Well-Known Member

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    This post is my stance. I'm not a believer in fat shaming, but I'm equally averse to obesity apologeticism - we need to "get real" and accept difficult truths.

    The chicken and egg analogy sums up the opposing viewpoints extremely well;

    Genetics > Insulin Resistance > Increased body/liver fat = Type 2 diabetes.

    or

    Consumption of (excess) "Carbs" > Increase in body fat > Fatty Liver > Insulin Resistance = Type 2 Diabetes.


    I'm a firm believer that the data doesn't lie. That is to say, it's an incontrovertible truth that the inexorable increase in the prevalence of type 2, globally, can be attributed to a convergence of factors;
    • Sedentary lifestyles
    • Ubiquity of carbohydrate dense/processed foods
    • Saturated fat being demonised in the 70's, consequently leading to the introduction of high levels of sucrose/fructose into food manufacturing.
    • Contradictory/misleading food advice and nutritional labels; placing emphasis on calories as opposed to nutrition.
    • Yes, genetics is also an important part of the equation, however exclude the preceeding points, and it becomes academic.
    Confirmation bias, unfortunately, clouds objectivity. "Slim" type 2s may seem paradoxical, however it's a question of semantics, you don't necessarily have to conform to this 'contemporary notion'(I.e: xxxl) of obesity to have high levels of bodyfat/fatty liver. So this trump card of 1 in 5 type 2s is irrelevant.

    A few words of wisdom from Socrates/Hippocrates to conclude;

    "Thou shouldst eat to live; not live to eat" Socrates

    "Letfood be thy medicine and medicine be thy food"
    Hippocrates
     
  4. SunnyExpat

    SunnyExpat Prefer not to say · Well-Known Member

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    Too much medicine for me then. ;)
     
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  5. Cl1ve

    Cl1ve Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Hi . The point I'm trying to make is there is now some research being done and the findings have been that the chemical that tells us we are full is turned of by diabetes . So the putting on weight could be a by product of the illness I think there is a lot more research to be done and as always there will be no conclusive evidence . But it was food for thought . I started this thread because I have a friend that is over weight . He has type-2 and when he told me he felt guilty as I was his fault . And as well as coping with the illness . He had to cope with his guilt . So if this thread can help people to maybe not take all the blame then
    it would have achieved something
    Clive
     
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  6. Brunneria

    Brunneria Other · Guru
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    Hi @Cl1ve

    Have a look at this video. I find it very persuasive.
    I think your friend might benefit from seeing it too.

     
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  7. Cl1ve

    Cl1ve Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Hi . Yes this is the doctor that looked at an over weight female and lost all his sympathy and blamed her for her diabetes . Did he not start to cry in the video . Thanks for putting it on as I don't know how to put links and videos on here I'm at that age where computers confuse me
    Clive
     
  8. Brunneria

    Brunneria Other · Guru
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    And then there is this one too:

     
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  9. Brunneria

    Brunneria Other · Guru
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    Yes, and then he got diabetes himself - after a lifetime of exercise and healthy eating.

    He then researched, and changed his mind about that poor woman.
     
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  10. misswhiplash

    misswhiplash Type 1 · Well-Known Member

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    People wondering about whether slim T2s might actually be misdiagnosed T1s - how does that work? As a (not very slim, in fact) T1, I am 100% sure that if I stopped taking insulin for a day or two, I would die, pretty fast, as I just simply don't have any of my own. Diet and medication wouldn't really make a difference.
    Unless we're talking about people who are put directly onto insulin? Or maybe some kind of extended honeymoon thing or maybe LADA. I guess there are a lot more than two distinct types in reality...
     
  11. Cl1ve

    Cl1ve Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Hi . Thanks for putting that video on . I'm not sure about her . She is saying to go on a low carb diet but what is low . And in the long run when the body starts burning fat for energy that is when your ketone starts to go up and you could key ketoacidosis . At least that is what I understand from the reading I've done . But I'd be happy to be corrected if I'm wrong
    Clive
     
  12. Neemo

    Neemo Type 1 · Well-Known Member

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    Yes, but this notion that certain metabolic illnesses are caused, principally, by a hormone deficiency; is a false dichotomy.

    This hormone that you speak of is Leptin. Leptin suppresses appetite..Type 2s tend to have have both Insulin and Leptin Resistance.

    Again it's back to the chicken and egg, what came first..Does the Insulin/Leptin 'resistance' arise from environmental factors, or genetic factors.
     

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  13. Neemo

    Neemo Type 1 · Well-Known Member

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    And the individual in question appears to have accomplished some questionable feats; A 4 minute mile at a muscular 95 kg, and at the age of 35..

    He has quite a few online 'detractors'..

    Too many merchants of doubt/charlatans in the US. "Almighty dollar".
     
  14. Cl1ve

    Cl1ve Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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  15. Brunneria

    Brunneria Other · Guru
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    Nutritional ketosis and ketoacidosis are very different things - although a lot of people (including health care professionals!) get them confused.

    I think everyone needs to work out their own appropriate carb levels. It is easy to do. All you need to do is get a bg meter and eat carbs.
    If your tests show that the carbs raise your bg out of target, then you eat less of them next time. Doesnt take long to work out where your personal carb limits lie.
     
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  16. Brunneria

    Brunneria Other · Guru
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    EVERYONE has online detractors.
    Me? I detract people who detract common sense. :)
     
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  17. reidpj

    reidpj · Well-Known Member

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    Check out the 'about me' section on his website; his blog posts are very informative: http://eatingacademy.com
     
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  18. Neemo

    Neemo Type 1 · Well-Known Member

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    Yep; saying Type 2 is caused by overeating is overly simplistic (I.e. missing context).

    Once you've "acquired" certain metabolic ailments (Insulin/leptin resistance), it can be incredibly difficult to reduce weight.

    So, rather than blaming individuals, it should be a case of making food manufactures accountable, and educating people to the deleterious effects of processed carbs/excessive sugar. But the normalisation/rationalisation of the obesity epidemic, sets an extremely dangerous precedent.

    The Food manufacturers, simular to the Tobacco Industry from previous decades, have a number of experts they employ to conduct "research/studies", which corroborate the unscrupulous narrative they are perpetuating; "All nutrients are (including sugar...) equal, and should be consumed as part of a healthy, balanced diet".

    The below documentary; Merchants of Doubt, pretty much sums up whats wrong with a lot of 'research' that is funded by corporations with vested intetests;

    http://m.imdb.com/title/tt3675568/
     
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  19. reidpj

    reidpj · Well-Known Member

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    As a type 1, you will always need to take insulin, but the amount that you'll require will be greatly reduced if you cut out the carbs. Type 1's, on a high carb diet, run the very real risk of becoming insulin resistant - with all the complications of hyperinsulinemia....
     
  20. Brunneria

    Brunneria Other · Guru
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    I think a lot of the misdignoses occur while the person is still in the honeymoon period. Often, tests for T1 are only done after a couple of years (that is very approx!) when the T2 oral drugs fail to prevent increasingly high bg levels.
     
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