Trying so willfully to come off T2DM

[Daphne917]

More evidence is surfacing that visceral fat is the root cause of diabetes, not obesity. You can be obese and healthy if you don't carry the fat in the wrong places. Equally one can be skinny and unhealthy for having too much belly fat.
As for slowing metabolism with losing weight. I guess you got it wrong. A person's basic metabolic rate decreases with losing weight because he no more needs to feed the fat cells that he shed Away. This is not the same as slowing metabolism which happens when someone adapts to starvation.

Not sure I entirely agree with your assertion. I went on a v low calorie diet and my body went into starvation mode and my metabolism slowed down so much that I became quite ill because my body was, quite literally, shutting down. I also have an under-active Thyroid and since going on medication for that and eating low carb foods I have lost approx 3 stone in the last year. Not as much as many on here but, considering I was told by a specialist years ago that I was one of his few patients who could honestly blame their metabolism for their weight, it's an achievement!

 

[OldTech]

It's great that you are trying this. I have also been on a low carb keto diet for almost two years. Around the one year mark, I saw a change where my glucose suddenly dropped into the 80s with spikes in the 90s. My A1c also dropped to 4.5. Since then I have remained stable, but I am still very much carb intolerant. If I eat more than ~10 carbs per meal or if I go off of metformin I start spiking over 100 (5.55 mmol/l) and sometimes even more than 110 (6.1 mmol.l).

I also do 1-hour exercise daily, 8/16 intermittent fasting, only eat two meals with no snacks, take resistant starch, and supplement with magnesium, chromium, calcium, and B, and D vitamins. I also make sure that I am getting enough salt. I don't supplement with potassium because I am taking a low dose ACE Inhibitor.My weight was normalized within the first 4-5 months (from BMI 28 down to BMI 21) after I was diagnosed with type 2.

At this point, I am no longer expecting anything like a reversal and it looks like it is just keto for life. That's OK with me since I find my keto diet satisfying. I am also convinced that even if I did reverse my diabetes and go back to eating excess carbs I would rather quickly develop diabetes again. I have simply passed the point of no return. I also like to know that I am in ketosis (last blood ketones 2.5) since that minimizes circulating both glucose and insulin both of which cause damage.

One pleasant result of my keto diet over the last two years is that many of the complications that I had at diagnosis have gone away and others are improving.

I now think that the most promising theory of the etiology of diabetes (type 2) is Taubes' Carbohydrate-Insulin theory for metabolic diseases of which diabetes is only one manifestation.

 

[jane12]

Hi Totto
I think controlling blood glucose levels is great but only half the story. In my opinion a person becomes diabetic for having too much visceral fat and diabetes is a symptom in this case not the actual illness. I think that type 2 diabetes was confused with type 1 because they both have similar symptoms. I believe that type 2 should be renamed to Lipodiabetes to more differentiate it from type 1.
In my many previous attempts to lose belly fat I failed and stopped short from removing those few stubborn kilograms. I was dieting and taking insulin at the same time then I started to wonder. Isn't it two contradicting things that I am doing! If I really want to allow those stubborn lipids to melt I should bring my insulin levels to the lowest possible. And this is what I am doing now. 700 calories zero carbs diet and only metformin. I have for the first time crossed the weight barrier of 67 kg and going vehemently towards my target goal of 57 kg. Please note that this is not a medical advise but merely a narrative of a personal adventure.
H

Both eggs & liver have carbs in them. Are you not eating any vegetables at all either?

Smartie xx

 

[jane12]

No
they dont

 

[jane12]

Totto
I appreciate your concern. I am not doing anything different from the Newcastle trial, except that my diet is ketogenic. Thus allowing deeper visceral fat to be burned. I know that I can up my calorie intake to a higher level. But I am afraid that my will may waver with time. However my protein portion is adequate as I am having around 90 grams a day.
One Last Note. When going on low carbs one does not lose weight for eating less. He is eating less because he's losing weight. Remember that excess fat was stored for one reason only to be used in the future.

You need some carbs for energy

 

[ButtterflyLady]

No

they dont

Protein can be converted into glucose in the body.

 

[ButtterflyLady]

You need some carbs for energy

That's not strictly true because fat is also a source of energy.

 

[Roytaylorjasonfunglover]

It's great that you are trying this. I have also been on a low carb keto diet for almost two years. Around the one year mark, I saw a change where my glucose suddenly dropped into the 80s with spikes in the 90s. My A1c also dropped to 4.5. Since then I have remained stable, but I am still very much carb intolerant. If I eat more than ~10 carbs per meal or if I go off of metformin I start spiking over 100 (5.55 mmol/l) and sometimes even more than 110 (6.1 mmol.l).

I also do 1-hour exercise daily, 8/16 intermittent fasting, only eat two meals with no snacks, take resistant starch, and supplement with magnesium, chromium, calcium, and B, and D vitamins. I also make sure that I am getting enough salt. I don't supplement with potassium because I am taking a low dose ACE Inhibitor.My weight was normalized within the first 4-5 months (from BMI 28 down to BMI 21) after I was diagnosed with type 2.

At this point, I am no longer expecting anything like a reversal and it looks like it is just keto for life. That's OK with me since I find my keto diet satisfying. I am also convinced that even if I did reverse my diabetes and go back to eating excess carbs I would rather quickly develop diabetes again. I have simply passed the point of no return. I also like to know that I am in ketosis (last blood ketones 2.5) since that minimizes circulating both glucose and insulin both of which cause damage.

One pleasant result of my keto diet over the last two years is that many of the complications that I had at diagnosis have gone away and others are improving.

I now think that the most promising theory of the etiology of diabetes (type 2) is Taubes' Carbohydrate-Insulin theory for metabolic diseases of which diabetes is only one manifestation.

http://wholehealthsource.blogspot.no/2010/11/glucose-tolerance-in-non-industrial.html

That is quite a substantial weightloss. Most people do not seem to realize that if you eat a mainly lowcarb diet for a extended period of time, your bloodsugars are gonna go beserk the first time you eat a substantial amounts of carbs for period of lets say 7 days. If you just eat normal amounts of carbohydrats for some days, your sugars are gonna normalize.

 

[OldTech]

http://wholehealthsource.blogspot.no/2010/11/glucose-tolerance-in-non-industrial.html

That is quite a substantial weightloss. Most people do not seem to realize that if you eat a mainly lowcarb diet for a extended period of time, your bloodsugars are gonna go beserk the first time you eat a substantial amounts of carbs for period of lets say 7 days. If you just eat normal amounts of carbohydrats for some days, your sugars are gonna normalize.

That's correct and it is called physiological insulin resistance - a fancy word saying that your body has adjusted to burning fat, and your body will not be used to processing carbs. If I were not diabetic, I would test this, but since I am diabetic, I am quite reluctant to go off ketosis and test to see if I could eat more carbs. Note that it is not just the glucose but also the insulin levels that I am concerned with keeping low.

 

[jane12]

Am I the only type 1 diabetic commenting on this? I think because type 1 is so different to type 2 that I don't really understand what this discussion is all about. If I was in ketosis I would be ill and in hospital.

 

[Indy51]

Am I the only type 1 diabetic commenting on this? I think because type 1 is so different to type 2 that I don't really understand what this discussion is all about. If I was in ketosis I would be ill and in hospital.

The aetiology of the two diseases is very different even if the side effects can end up very similar. Ketosis is generally not dangerous for Type 2's because we don't generally have high BG and high ketones together. The presence of ketones is usually an indicator of fat burning and would be accompanied by lower BG and lower insulin production and both those outcomes are beneficial for a Type 2.

 

[jane12]

The aetiology of the two diseases is very different even if the side effects can end up very similar. Ketosis is generally not dangerous for Type 2's because we don't generally have high BG and high ketones together. The presence of ketones is usually an indicator of fat burning and would be accompanied by lower BG and lower insulin production and both those outcomes are beneficial for a Type 2.

Thanks for explaining that. So type 2 diabetics can benefit from ketosis as their bodies react in the totally opposite way to type 1's?
I'm so glad I'm type 1, it really is much simpler. Just take as much insulin as required to match carb intake, simple!

 

[Celeriac]

After 5 or 6 years low carbing, I did try a large bag of popcorn on August Bank Holiday and had a BG rollercoaster for ten days. Messed up my 90 day average completely.

I don't have a sweet tooth, I'm happy with the occasional couple of squares of 90% cocoa chocolate and if I really crave crisps a toddler bag of cheese and herb puffs is under 10g carbs. I just don't think messing up my BG numbers is worth it.

 

[jane12]

I have good control, but was only diagnosed with type 1 a year ago at the age of 48! My son was diagnosed at 18, our doctor said we are late developers! I enjoy a low carb diet sticking to less than 50 g's a day which is 7.5 units of insulin, my hba1c is steadily coming down as I have the test every 3 months at the moment.

 

[OldTech]

Thanks for explaining that. So type 2 diabetics can benefit from ketosis as their bodies react in the totally opposite way to type 1's?
I'm so glad I'm type 1, it really is much simpler. Just take as much insulin as required to match carb intake, simple!

<theory and speculation>

In theory being in ketosis requires low insulin, so if you were following Dr. Bernstien's protocol it may be possible to be in ketosis and type 1, but I don't think that it very relevant in that case.

Note that nutritional ketosis is quite different than ketoacidosis. The ketones for nutritional ketosis are around ~3 mmol/l while ketoacidosis occurs when ketones are high ~15 mmol/l. Also, glucose is low when in nutritional ketosis and sky high in ketoacidosis. The two states are very different.

From my perspective what I want is both low glucose and low insulin because it is high levels of both that cause damage. An insulin dependent diabetic on Dr. Bernstien's protocol can keep insulin low by careful dosing and eating low carb. A non-insulin dependent diabetic can only control insulin levels indirectly by diet.

For me, that means that being in ketosis tells me that I have low insulin. That is not necessary for insulin dependent diabetics since they control the insulin.

</theory and speculation>

 

[jane12]

When I was diagnosed I was in dka and hours from dying ( the doc. Told me this when I was stabilised) I had previously been diagnosed with type 2 a fortnight before,as I was 48 years old my doctor assumed I was type2, so I associate ketosis with feeling very ill. I follow a low carb low fat regime as fat inhibits insulin from working efficiently.

 

[Indy51]

Thanks for explaining that. So type 2 diabetics can benefit from ketosis as their bodies react in the totally opposite way to type 1's?
I'm so glad I'm type 1, it really is much simpler. Just take as much insulin as required to match carb intake, simple!

Actually, I probably could have explained it better - ketosis and ketoacidosis are two different metabolic states, even though ketones are the common denominator. If you're interested in learning more, this article may help explain it better:

http://www.ketogenic-diet-resource.com/ketoacidosis.html

I'm much happier being a type 2 than a type 1, though I can dig where you're coming from

 

[Diablo]

I started attempting to cure myself from T2DM three years ago since I got convinced that it was not an ever lasting curse. I am driven by my faith that the pancreas can always meet the insulin requirements of the body even at partial functioning. The artificial insulin brands available in the market are intentionally made twenty times larger than natural insulin. While it should take the pancreas a small spit to deal with blood glucose. It is becoming more apparent that many people are healing from T2DM with substantial weight loss. I reduced my weight from 93 kg to 64 kg today and improved my insulin to carbs ratio from 1:4 to 1:20. But so far experienced no "wake-up" of the pancreas. I am so convinced of my approach, I intend to go to as low as 57 kg which represents the lowest healthy BMI for me. I am always hungry and debilitated but so determined to finish the job.
Thought to share my story with you, and will keep you posted.

Hi Waleed
I read your story with interest as I am on a similar expedition but my route is slightly different at the moment.
I was diagnosed 24 years ago as type 2 when I was 40 years old and had a BG reading of 18. Started with the usual oral medication but after ten years Insulin was added and then went through Byetta and Victoza injections as well as all the other bits like aspirin, statins and candesartan etc. Finally a friend suggested that I should try homeopathic treatment as the traditional medication over the last 24 years have not helped me reduced my Hba1C to an acceptable level.

The homepath doctor said that his medication would require a strict change of eating habits and for six month atleast I would have to become a Vegan with the exception of Fish being the only meat allowed. I have observed this for five and half months and am now coming to the last fortnight. I lost 8 Kg and reduced my weight to 75 Kg in this period. I have cut down my combined insulin dosage of Insuman and Lantus from 72 units per day to 22 units having stopped Lantus completely. I have also stopped Victoza. I have reduced the candesartan to twice a week instead of daily dose and also stopped statins. I had fatty liver which is now normal. So I am hoping to come off the insulin completely within a month and then see how it progresses with jsut the metformin. Gliclazide was recently introduced in my regime to bring down sugars so that I could cut down the insulin further and have to see the progress.

My consultant believes that the positive changes in BG levels achieved so far have been due to the change in dietary habits as they do not believe in the homeopathic remedies. However the homeopathic doctor says that if I stick with my dietary regime which would be relaxed with meat once a week, in addition to the fish then I should be able to monitor myself without the need for metform in the next few months and also come off his treatment. He is aiming for TOTAL REVERSAL of T2.

I am keeping hoping to follow this to the end and see if it really works. Will keep the members posted.

 

[waleed]

Hi Waleed
I read your story with interest as I am on a similar expedition but my route is slightly different at the moment.
I was diagnosed 24 years ago as type 2 when I was 40 years old and had a BG reading of 18. Started with the usual oral medication but after ten years Insulin was added and then went through Byetta and Victoza injections as well as all the other bits like aspirin, statins and candesartan etc. Finally a friend suggested that I should try homeopathic treatment as the traditional medication over the last 24 years have not helped me reduced my Hba1C to an acceptable level.

The homepath doctor said that his medication would require a strict change of eating habits and for six month atleast I would have to become a Vegan with the exception of Fish being the only meat allowed. I have observed this for five and half months and am now coming to the last fortnight. I lost 8 Kg and reduced my weight to 75 Kg in this period. I have cut down my combined insulin dosage of Insuman and Lantus from 72 units per day to 22 units having stopped Lantus completely. I have also stopped Victoza. I have reduced the candesartan to twice a week instead of daily dose and also stopped statins. I had fatty liver which is now normal. So I am hoping to come off the insulin completely within a month and then see how it progresses with jsut the metformin. Gliclazide was recently introduced in my regime to bring down sugars so that I could cut down the insulin further and have to see the progress.

My consultant believes that the positive changes in BG levels achieved so far have been due to the change in dietary habits as they do not believe in the homeopathic remedies. However the homeopathic doctor says that if I stick with my dietary regime which would be relaxed with meat once a week, in addition to the fish then I should be able to monitor myself without the need for metform in the next few months and also come off his treatment. He is aiming for TOTAL REVERSAL of T2.

I am keeping hoping to follow this to the end and see if it really works. Will keep the members posted.

Hi Diablo,
I'm proud of what you're trying to achieve, and I believe it's doable. I would encourage you to talk to your Doctor to see if he would agree to take off the gliclizide, as it is an insulin secreting medication which goes against fat loss. I believe having higher BG is better than having higher insulin.
I personally have reached a weight of 62 kg.

 

[waleed]

Hi Diablo,
I'm proud of what you're trying to achieve, and I believe it's doable. I would encourage you to talk to your Doctor to see if he would agree to take off the gliclizide, as it is an insulin secreting medication which goes against fat loss. I believe having higher BG is better than having higher insulin.
I personally have reached a weight of 62 kg.

Sorry my reply was interrupted.
I decided two days ago to finish the race with dignity. I still have 5 kg to waste. So I decided to water fast one more time probably for another 20 days. This should either make me achieve my aspiration or prove that I am on the wrong track.
Will keep you posted.
Wish me luck.