T2s: Calf/leg muscle loss after diagnosis?

[IronLioness]

Hi all, looking for advice/personal experience info, but has anyone found after diagnosis that you've lost muscle in your calf or legs? I might be going nuts but having trained legs hard for the past 15yrs, I've got them strong as heck and good definition - always proud of my leg strength, but something hasn't felt right recently, then today I was working out and I've noticed, or it certainly felt like, I've lost some definition/muscle in my calf - the diamond.

Can this be linked at all to the diabetes? Surely not?

 

[DaveXF]

Hi all, looking for advice/personal experience info, but has anyone found after diagnosis that you've lost muscle in your calf or legs? I might be going nuts but having trained legs hard for the past 15yrs, I've got them strong as heck and good definition - always proud of my leg strength, but something hasn't felt right recently, then today I was working out and I've noticed, or it certainly felt like, I've lost some definition/muscle in my calf - the diamond.

Can this be linked at all to the diabetes? Surely not?

It happened to me, though statins didn't help.

 

[paulmh]

I was diagnosed T2 after having a DVT in my calf / thigh. I struggle to run on that leg now, preferring cycling. When I run I get pain in that leg which I think can only be due to damaged blood vessels. I’ve never really tried to unpick whether the T2 caused the DVT or contributed or what. So it’s probably better that you’re diagnosed and can do something about it before it causes lasting damage!

 

[ickihun]

Hi all, looking for advice/personal experience info, but has anyone found after diagnosis that you've lost muscle in your calf or legs? I might be going nuts but having trained legs hard for the past 15yrs, I've got them strong as heck and good definition - always proud of my leg strength, but something hasn't felt right recently, then today I was working out and I've noticed, or it certainly felt like, I've lost some definition/muscle in my calf - the diamond.

Can this be linked at all to the diabetes? Surely not?

Definition can come from dehydration. Once your more hydrated your definition can change.

 

[ickihun]

I was diagnosed T2 after having a DVT in my calf / thigh. I struggle to run on that leg now, preferring cycling. When I run I get pain in that leg which I think can only be due to damaged blood vessels. I’ve never really tried to unpick whether the T2 caused the DVT or contributed or what. So it’s probably better that you’re diagnosed and can do something about it before it causes lasting damage!

Try supplement R-ala 400mg per day. It's very very good for nerves and vessel health.

 

[DCUKMod]

@IronLioness - some people find, if they diet aggressively at the outset, that they lose some fluid, fat and muscle initially either they're simply not eating enough, or their bodies take a little while to become fat adapted, and therefore their body utilises muscle |(protein) for energy in the shorter time. There are likely other reasons too.

Have a real good look at what you've been eating, and take it from there.

 

[IronLioness]

It happened to me, though statins didn't help.

Yeah, it's quite concerning... Think I need to remedy this ASAP, just not sure how... Maybe more leg work to try and build them back up again..

 

[IronLioness]

I was diagnosed T2 after having a DVT in my calf / thigh. I struggle to run on that leg now, preferring cycling. When I run I get pain in that leg which I think can only be due to damaged blood vessels. I’ve never really tried to unpick whether the T2 caused the DVT or contributed or what. So it’s probably better that you’re diagnosed and can do something about it before it causes lasting damage!

Hi Paul, I've had a DVT too, femoral artery mid thigh to ankle, then broke off and turned into pulmonary embolism, **** it. Luckily I survived and I think it was my calf strength that helped it, so I'm keen not to lose it. Or rather, having now been diagnosed with T2, I don't want toose that leg strength, just in case DVT comes back. In my head, healthy leg strength will help for better blood circulation. I'll investigate this some more methinks

 

[IronLioness]

Definition can come from dehydration. Once your more hydrated your definition can change.

It's more the muscle itself that seems to not be the same as pre diagnosis. Now when I flex, the muscle is less obvious, kind of concerning.

 

[IronLioness]

@IronLioness - some people find, if they diet aggressively at the outset, that they lose some fluid, fat and muscle initially either they're simply not eating enough, or their bodies take a little while to become fat adapted, and therefore their body utilises muscle |(protein) for energy in the shorter time. There are likely other reasons too.

Have a real good look at what you've been eating, and take it from there.

Thanks for this. Diet wise, the only thing I've really changed is removing all rubbish food and carbs, I've literally cut them right down to less than 30g per day, and fat, that's limited too. I'm protein heavy in my overall diet, but it's bamboozled me as to what's going on with my calves - usually (pre diagnosis) even when I stood up and flex calf I could feel the muscle, but now, not so much. Eek!

 

[DCUKMod]

Thanks for this. Diet wise, the only thing I've really changed is removing all rubbish food and carbs, I've literally cut them right down to less than 30g per day, and fat, that's limited too. I'm protein heavy in my overall diet, but it's bamboozled me as to what's going on with my calves - usually (pre diagnosis) even when I stood up and flex calf I could feel the muscle, but now, not so much. Eek!

If you have removed carbs, of course, you have also removed calories. That can have quite an impact.

When I was initially diagnosed, I didn't up my fat intake initially, and my love handles vaporised - very, very quickly, to the extent people were asking if I was unwell.

Of course, it's tricky to recall exactly what you ate before, especially as pre-diagnosis our eating isn't always mindful. We could just pick up a piece of fruit, or whatever floated our boats, and consume it without thinking, but it could be useful to onsider trying to do a quick tot-up of what you think you might have been eating before and compare the nutrients.

As we become fat adapted, and our visceral fat reduces, our systems can become a bit more efficient, in terms of utilising fat for fuel, but in the early days it's important we don't effectively starve ourselves. Starving ourselves would surely metabolise muscle.

 

[IronLioness]

If you have removed carbs, of course, you have also removed calories. That can have quite an impact.

When I was initially diagnosed, I didn't up my fat intake initially, and my love handles vaporised - very, very quickly, to the extent people were asking if I was unwell.

Of course, it's tricky to recall exactly what you ate before, especially as pre-diagnosis our eating isn't always mindful. We could just pick up a piece of fruit, or whatever floated our boats, and consume it without thinking, but it could be useful to onsider trying to do a quick tot-up of what you think you might have been eating before and compare the nutrients.

As we become fat adapted, and our visceral fat reduces, our systems can become a bit more efficient, in terms of utilising fat for fuel, but in the early days it's important we don't effectively starve ourselves. Starving ourselves would surely metabolise muscle.

This is good information, thanks for that. Where I've cut down drastically on carbs I've not upped the fat content as trying to reduce my LDL cholesterol, too. Pre diagnosis I was eating and training well during the week, on the whole, the undo was the weekends or when working away, but I guess nutrient wise it would have been both good and bad. I'm surprised by the changes in my calves, I don't like losing muscle, is there a way of building it back up?

 

[DCUKMod]

This is good information, thanks for that. Where I've cut down drastically on carbs I've not upped the fat content as trying to reduce my LDL cholesterol, too. Pre diagnosis I was eating and training well during the week, on the whole, the undo was the weekends or when working away, but I guess nutrient wise it would have been both good and bad. I'm surprised by the changes in my calves, I don't like losing muscle, is there a way of building it back up?

Eating well and exercising will help, but it could take a little while.

Are you looking to reduce, increase or keep your weight stable?

 

[IronLioness]

Eating well and exercising will help, but it could take a little while.

Are you looking to reduce, increase or keep your weight stable?

This is what's concerning me, the exercise has actually increased since diagnosis, or rather, I'm back with consistency as a focus. I've been training weights for 15yrs so my body is very very strong, my leg strength has always been my pride and joy. Since diagnosis I've noticed it's drastically reduced, but I don't know why. It concerns me. Weight wise, I'm looking to reduce it, a lot, it's the only thing that let's me down. But exercise wise, nothing has changed, I've always been a gym bunny with weights, I lift heavy and I work out hard, but very stupidly I didn't get my diet in check. I just don't understand why the muscle has reduced so much in what is basically a little over a month since diagnosis on 4th October. Baffling me..

 

[Brunneria]

Any chance that your muscle size has shrunk because the glycogen stores in the muscles have reduced?
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3248697/

Glycogen is stored in liver and muscle.
Switching to a ketogenic way of eating is probably running your glycogen stores down. This can make a visible difference in the tummy area (liver glycogen stores) so I assume there must be a corresp onding reduction in muscle bulk as the glycogen stored in the muscles reduces. I an not sure of the details, but each glucose molecule is attached to water, in glycogen. So using up the glucose releases water too => shrinkage.

Though I have no idea if this is significant enough to be visible by eye, in a single muscle!

Hope that helps.

 

[IronLioness]

Any chance that your muscle size has shrunk because the glycogen stores in the muscles have reduced?
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3248697/

Glycogen is stored in liver and muscle.
Switching to a ketogenic way of eating is probably running your glycogen stores down. This can make a visible difference in the tummy area (liver glycogen stores) so I assume there must be a corresp onding reduction in muscle bulk as the glycogen stored in the muscles reduces. I an not sure of the details, but each glucose molecule is attached to water, in glycogen. So using up the glucose releases water too => shrinkage.

Though I have no idea if this is significant enough to be visible by eye, in a single muscle!

Hope that helps.

Yes indeed, very helpful. I think that possibly what's happening although I'm not keto diet based as I haven't increased fat, I've just cut my carbs to 30g or less per day, but fat is low too. I've just had a bodybuilding mate give me advice that I'm probably losing muscle because of carb cutting (his reply below). But I'm now so confused because I don't know how to build muscle and keep on low carb - I'm not on metformin either, but I don't know how yo increase carbs to keep muscle but without it pushing up my BG levels. Argh..... Hellllp anyone.... I'm so confused....

 

[IronLioness]

This is the advice I got on why losing muscle on low carb diet. I'm confused on how to increase or keep muscle if I can't have a lot of carbs...

 

[IronLioness]

It happened to me, though statins didn't help.

Dave did you manage to build your muscle back?

 

[Safi]

This is the advice I got on why losing muscle on low carb diet. I'm confused on how to increase or keep muscle if I can't have a lot of carbs... View attachment 29475

Have you had a chance to look at https://www.reddit.com/r/ketogains/new/ ? Lots of people successfully building muscle & lots of advice. You might find some relevant general info & they're pretty good at answering questions.

 

[IronLioness]

Have you had a chance to look at https://www.reddit.com/r/ketogains/new/ ? Lots of people successfully building muscle & lots of advice. You might find some relevant general info & they're pretty good at answering questions.

That's a good idea Safi. I'll jump on and have a look. I'm not on keto but there's got to be some training programmes out there for muscle re-building.