Stroke and Diabetes

[brutale 800]

Hi,
I have been Type 2 diabetic for about fifteen years (I was 50 last year) and always thought and was told it was well controlled. I never had reason to worry too much about the implications of being diabetic.
I am not overweight (6’ and 76Kg) go to the gym six times a week and do a mixture of weights and cardio.
Towards the end of last year I was looking forward to the Xmas party season. I had sold my business and taken early retirement. I felt the best I had for a long time.
The first party I attended was a Gin Mingle, new one on me but I was happy to give it a go. Part the way through the evening a felt tingling up my leg and arm. I didn’t think too much of it and carried on with my evening. I woke the next day to an increased numbness down my left side. I started to get worried and called 111. Ambulance, hospital, tests, scans and an a diagnosis of a stroke followed.
Unfortunately I am still numb down on side but feel lucky that I have no lost movement or strength.
My vices were few but I did like to drink - I used to joke that it was good for me because it lowered my blood sugar - a little too low on occasion! What I ignored was the spikes in blood pressure that drinking can cause.
There has been no particular cause for my stroke identified. No dodgy heart no thickened arteries but diabetes does damage small blood vessels that can clog and cause a stroke.
I thought I could ignore the secondary effects of being diabetic but unfortunately it appears you can’t.

 

[jjraak]

Hi @brutale 800 (biker, huh ? )

Such a nice story until the hospital.

Sad to hear, but the plus side is you kept mobility and strength.
sensations may still come back, i hope?

I guess the T2D probably played some part, with nothing to really identify, it could be just a random act.
many non T2D's get strokes, easy to lay everything at diabetes door, i know i do,
but we still can get sick from other things.

great that your in such good health after.
Long may that continue.

Good luck moving forward.

have you now adapted your diet to LCHF or had your already done that ?

 

[HSSS]

So glad to hear that the consequences of the stroke aren’t too life changing.

In the back of my mind I worry a little about the complications of diabetes and if they only effect those with higher numbers or can get any of us if it goes beyond bgl as a cause. After all high levels are symptom of diabetes not the disease itself.

Do you know what your actual numbers have been though? Some drs have very strange ideas about what is normal or well controlled? You should be able to access your records if you ask.

Was this control with the help of medication or diet controlled alone? I think that can make a difference to complications too

And very importantly as @jjraak says strokes happen for a variety of reasons to non diabetics too so diabetes may not be relevant at all.

 

[brutale 800]

Hi @brutale 800 (biker, huh ? )

Such a nice story until the hospital.

Sad to hear, but the plus side is you kept mobility and strength.
sensations may still come back, i hope?

I guess the T2D probably played some part, with nothing to really identify, it could be just a random act.
many non T2D's get strokes, easy to lay everything at diabetes door, i know i do,
but we still can get sick from other things.

great that your in such good health after.
Long may that continue.

Good luck moving forward.

have you now adapted your diet to LCHF or had your already done that ?

 

[brutale 800]

Hi,
Thanks for taking the time to read.
Yes, a biker although I have switched to Ducati now - more reliable.
I agree that it may not be diabetes related. Unfortunately some consultants raise their eyebrows when you tell them in a well what did you expect kind of way. However, I have had most of the tests to rule out other causes.

 

[JoKalsbeek]

Hi,
Thanks for taking the time to read.
Yes, a biker although I have switched to Ducati now - more reliable.
I agree that it may not be diabetes related. Unfortunately some consultants raise their eyebrows when you tell them in a well what did you expect kind of way. However, I have had most of the tests to rule out other causes.

Hi @brutale 800 ,

I saw you mention a whole slew of meds in another thread.... How well-controlled is well-controlled? If you didn't make dietary changes in addition to the medication you're likely to still suffer complications. That is, T2 is a progressive disease, *unless* you adjust your diet too. That can stop progression in its tracks, and possibly get you into non-diabetic numbers without any medication. I've been a T2 for a while before diagnosis, no telling how long... But 3 years ago I started low carbing, and later progressed to keto. I haven't been on any diabetes medication since i was taken off the lot 3 months into diagnosis, could stop the statins, and the complications went away too. (And they were nasty. Nothing like a stroke though, but no fun.). Might be worth looking into?

https://www.diabetes.co.uk/forum/blog-entry/the-nutritional-thingy.2330/

Good luck man.
Jo

 

[brutale 800]

Hi Jo,
Thanks for your reply. I understand the LCHF argument where weight loss might be an issue but by body fat is around 11%.
The variable that you don’t include in your equation is exercise. I exercise six times a week. If I moved to a low carb diet I am not sure I would have the reserves to carry on my routine - this is important to me.
I would be interested to know your thoughts.
Paul

 

[HSSS]

Hi Jo,
Thanks for your reply. I understand the LCHF argument where weight loss might be an issue but by body fat is around 11%.
The variable that you don’t include in your equation is exercise. I exercise six times a week. If I moved to a low carb diet I am not sure I would have the reserves to carry on my routine - this is important to me.
I would be interested to know your thoughts.
Paul

It’s not about weight loss per se but about not putting carbs into the body that a diabetic can’t process properly. Weight loss doesn’t have to be a side effect if you increase other macronutrients ie protein and fat. These then provide your energy instead of carbs. Also it’s possible to the relatively thin but still have fat around your organs contributing to insulin resistance.

Tour de France cyclist and other athletes utilise lchf just fine. Take a look in the exercise subforum, they might have specifics. Hubby (carboholic vegetarian cyclist) just read “fuelling the cycling revolution “ by Nigel Mitchell and is almost convinced and is asking for lchf foods.


Did you have any actual numbers for your blood levels?

 

[brutale 800]

As I understand it, it is much harder for the body to take energy from fat or ‘other macros’ but this could be better in endurance sport - like cycling. Presumably because carb get used up quite quickly. I think short distance running and weight training may require carbs - at least in my case.
I freely admit I am not an expert on this subject but will do some more reading around it.
Thanks for your reply!

 

[HSSS]

As I understand it, it is much harder for the body to take energy from fat or ‘other macros’ but this could be better in endurance sport - like cycling. Presumably because carb get used up quite quickly. I think short distance running and weight training may require carbs - at least in my case.
I freely admit I am not an expert on this subject but will do some more reading around it.
Thanks for your reply!

I think the key is being fat adapted or not. If you are then your body has learned how to readily access fats. Alternatively carb only for exercise maybe. I’m sure there are answers out there.

 

[brutale 800]

Well you have piqued my interest so I will definitely do some more reading!
Thanks

 

[JoKalsbeek]

As I understand it, it is much harder for the body to take energy from fat or ‘other macros’ but this could be better in endurance sport - like cycling. Presumably because carb get used up quite quickly. I think short distance running and weight training may require carbs - at least in my case.
I freely admit I am not an expert on this subject but will do some more reading around it.
Thanks for your reply!

A body is lazy; It'll burn whatever is the quickest it can get to, and carbs are quick. So it would take getting fat-adapted to efficiently start burning fats rather than carbs for fuel, and it'd be a bit of a transition, but considering your health it would probably be quite worth it. Which is quite the understatement. I can recommend, which I probably already did at some point as I am great at repeating myself, dr. Jason Fung's The Diabetes Code, it's a wealth of information...

 

[jjraak]

As I understand it, it is much harder for the body to take energy from fat or ‘other macros’ but this could be better in endurance sport - like cycling. Presumably because carb get used up quite quickly. I think short distance running and weight training may require carbs - at least in my case.
I freely admit I am not an expert on this subject but will do some more reading around it.
Thanks for your reply!

There is a runner, who has COPD and a blog
not sure if he might not be a good starting point fur someone like yourself who is heavily into sports/exercise.

Link here.
https://copdathlete.com/copd-news/the-ketogenic-cure/

I'd followed link previously for nephew who suffers, so just looking at the diet aspect, but sure I read he also had a stroke.

 

[brutale 800]

There is a runner, who has COPD and a blog
not sure if he might not be a good starting point fur someone like yourself who is heavily into sports/exercise.

Link here.
https://copdathlete.com/copd-news/the-ketogenic-cure/

I'd followed link previously for nephew who suffers, so just looking at the diet aspect, but sure I read he also had a stroke.

- thanks! I will have a read.

 

[Pinkorchid]

Hi Jo,
Thanks for your reply. I understand the LCHF argument where weight loss might be an issue but by body fat is around 11%.
The variable that you don’t include in your equation is exercise. I exercise six times a week. If I moved to a low carb diet I am not sure I would have the reserves to carry on my routine - this is important to me.
I would be interested to know your thoughts.
Paul

You are right LCHF does cause weight loss even if you do not need to loose any. I think there are others here who do exercise a lot so maybe ask them if they manage on very low carb diet or if they take supplements they would be the ones who know

 

[HSSS]

You are right LCHF does cause weight loss even if you do not need to loose any. I think there are others here who do exercise a lot so maybe ask them if they manage on very low carb diet or if they take supplements they would be the ones who know

Not if you add enough fats and protein it doesn’t.

 

[brutale 800]

https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s40279-015-0393-9

This is quite interesting for LCHF and training. Will also post in a more relevant forum.
Thank you for all your answers so far.

 

[Resurgam]

Most people go in and out of ketosis several times of day - fat is a normal fuel - and if your glucose handling system is broken then fat is a much better option.
if necessary protein can be broken down to make glucose, but doing that consistently for long periods is unlikely to end well.
Swapping to low carb eating has given me a lot more energy, as I suspect that my insulin levels were always high - and insulin packs away the glucose to use for best - so it never gets used but just adds to body mass.

 

[brutale 800]

Thank you for your comments.
I have no doubt that adopting a lower carb diet would benefit me.
The question I have is how low can I go without having a detrimental effect on high intensity training.

 

[HSSS]

Thank you for your comments.
I have no doubt that adopting a lower carb diet would benefit me.
The question I have is how low can I go without having a detrimental effect on high intensity training.

I guess you try reducing them gradually and find out what your body does once you’ve done your research in how to do it most effectively for performance. Good luck