Channel 4

[julie54]

Unfortunately it was indeed somewhat of a missed opportunity - and will leave viewers with the impression that all type 2 diabetes is the fault of the individual, who is overweight, lazy, addicted to food, and a great drain on the NHS.

 

[Andy12345]

it was dreadful, literally like big brother for fat ladies, too of which over 8 weeks lowered the bg to a good level through dieting and they apparently were no longer diabetic, no mention of the science behind the eating or medication or the effect of carbs or the need for testing or the fact that not all diabetics are not overweight or the responsibility of society for causing diabetes through financial gain or bad advice, etc etc.....they basically put 6 women in a house three on the Newcastle diet and 3 on a low calorie diet and watched the low calorie ladies eat lots of nice food whilst the Newcastle 3 drank there milkshakes at the same table to make them cry so the world could sit watching it saying its there own fault for eating too much broken up by how much money diabetics cost the nhs

 

[Jubbly]

Just watched the programme myself...
I'm a newby and definately not as educated about diabetes as the people here so its probably no surprise that i was excited at the prospect that 8 weeks of dieting would cure diabetes. As others have mentioned there was no discussion about medication etc... i'm assuming those that were "cured" no longer need any medication and can eat sugary foods with no issue?... reading above it sounds like this is not actually true
I'm sure people at work will have watched (hopefully not my boss) and will be giving me advice that i only need to do an 8 week diet to fix this..
I agree with the rest of you though that this was sadly cash focused, just another stigma for an overweight diabetic... what a lazy greedy drain on society i must be

 

[sparkyrich]

Wow! I've been on juice/smoothies for lunch and salads/stir fries at night for the last 2 weeks. Lost about 5 kg so I assume I'm cured. Gonna chuck the metformin and BP drugs in the bin and go out for a night on the lash and an Indian feast to celebrate. Thanks channel 4 for educating me!


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[Netty70]

I agree with everything everyone said as soon as it came on I said to my hubby why are they all overweight not all diabetics are overweight
They didn't mention medication they were on anything they did I:e testing sugars and so on the only thing that was top topic was how much food they ate what a load of ******** aaarrrrrggggghhhhhhh


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[Anonymous]

My thoughts ... it's hard to put myself in the position of viewers who know far less than we do, but, first and foremost, it was 'entertainment', hence the focus on forcing the 'shakers' to see what the other team were eating, and close-ups of 'brealdowns' etc. There was zero mention of exercise at all. There wasn't even a walk to the shops. The one lady who was 'cured' (i.e. was no longer diabetic) still looked to me as though she might still be carrying a lot of excess fat around her internal organs which the doctors focussed on as a key problem in the first place.

Overall, the programme lacked a shock factor, apart from a photo of a gangrenous foot with toes missing. I can't see the programme making any difference to anyone watching it. From a cynic's point of view, I suspect that we will be seeing more of the dietician from now on with a possible book release & TV. Newcastle University has added further justification for the funding of its MRI unit and equipment, but why no input from elsewhere, such as Loughborough where there is a body of knowledge of food and diet and where most top sports people go to train.

 

[mo1905]

For me the programme was no surprise. The opening credits rolled out with 6 obese women. Oh dear I thought.
I know that if I were non-diabetic, I'd have been screaming at the TV, annoyed at those lazy, self inflicted drain on my NHS !!
Now, we all know that this was not a true reflection of diabetes but unfortunately, it's all that the public gets to see !


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[jaycee33]

What a missed opportunity to educate the public about diabetes.All this programme did was reinforce the perception that diabetics are fat,lazy, greedy pigs.
Everything about this prog was designed to entertain the Big Brother crowd.
The only good thing was that I now know that after 56 days on a diet I will be cured of diabetes-simples!
WHAT A LOAD OF B&$%**t.
The "contestants" should have been given a copy of Dr Bernsteins book or the name of this forum-then they may have a chance of understanding what diabetes means.

 

[mchphoto]

I thought the way we were portrayed was very bad we are all well over weight, the program did nothing to help us or educate the general public. I felt that I had to lodge a complaint with off com, seems harsh but they need to do things accurately . They did not tell the whole story which in an hour was plenty of time.

So we can reverse type 2 with this Newcastle diet then can we?? - so why are we not all on it and the NHS so they do not have to treat us and will save billions of pounds for a simple diet?

very bad program

 

[Anonymous]

I thought the way we were portrayed was very bad we are all well over weight, the program did nothing to help us or educate the general public. I felt that I had to lodge a complaint with off com, seems harsh but they need to do things accurately . They did not tell the whole story which in an hour was plenty of time.

So we can reverse type 2 with this Newcastle diet then can we?? - so why are we not all on it and the NHS so they do not have to treat us and will save billions of pounds for a simple diet?

very bad program

In fairness, I don't think the programme favoured the Newcastle Diet. I lost track of who was on what by the end but they all apparently saw an improvement in their HbA1C. So, I was unable to make any comparison between solid and liquid dieters. What I did note was that the woman having the surgery was angry with diabetes whereas another was angry with herself for not looking after herself before. I hope that the woman having surgery stills eats properly even though she has a smaller stomach otherwise there will be little benefit to her for eating smaller amounts of bad food.

 

[julie54]

The other thing that occurred to me was that not only did it portray all type 2 diabetics as lazy, fat and a drain on the NHS, but why didn't they pick a more representative sample of type 2's? In other words - why was it all women???!!!!! I was really quite optimistic when saw that there was a programme on type 2 diabetes and diet, but as the programme went on I just wanted to throw something at the television, that would be after I threw myself on the floor like a child having a hissy fit!!! I did neither - I value my TV too much!! And as for throwing myself on the floor, I was of course too busy eating a litre tub of ice cream after my gigantic pizza!!!

 

[phoenix]

I can see peoples problems with the background blurb but personally was most interested in how well the diets worked; there are people on here that have had success with the Newcastle Diet and I had assumed that it would be that.
It was interesting that they chose the diet each woman would go on but I wasn't sure of the criteria . I think those on the Newcastle diet had had diabetes for less time and had less medication etc but really wasn't sure.
The low cal diet worked out at 160g carb, 120g protein, 53.5 g fat (1600calories) so was twice the calories of the Newcastle diet.

I thought the idea of the first 4 days with people eating the 2 diets side by side was ridiculous and just designed to make the group using the milkshakes feel miserable ; they seem to think that is good tv

We don't know how they fared during the rest of the period except that they all lost some weight and all seem to have lowered their HbA1cs.
They never gave their criteria for diabetes reversal. There was no mention of a glucose tolerance test. Without this info we really don't know much about the results.

Of the two that they claimed had reversed their diabetes
1) had lowered their HbA1c to non diabetic ( below sub 6.5% is sub diabetic but not 'pre diabetic' )
( I couldn't remember which diet she was using )
2) had an HbA1c in the 9s at the start and they claimed she now had a completely normal fasting glucose ( sub 6.1mmol/l? or the US criteria of sub 5.7mmol/l ) She was using the 1600 cal diet.

 

[Sid Bonkers]

I didnt watch it but will try and watch it later today if I get a chance on 4OD or whatever channels fours catch up program is called.

But a couple of things spring to mind having read all the comments so far which I will list in no particular order.

Realistically 80% of T2 diabetics are overweight at diagnosis so theres no getting away from the fact that people will draw stereotypes, you may not like it but its true, most diabetics are T2 so most diabetics therefore are overweight.

Reading phoenix post my fasting bg levels are under 6 mmol/L for the most part but I am still diabetic, fasting readings do not tell the whole story, they dont prove that someones diabetes is cured just that it is under control.

Any diet if stuck to will show results in weight loss and a lower general bg level, especially if the subject is overweight which apparently these were so its no surprise that they all lost weight and improved their bg levels. But like any diet it is what happens afterwards that counts, the maintenance of the weight lost.

And finally for those that were surprised at the way diabetes is shown in the media a quote from Scott Adams book The Dilbert Principle.

Reporters are faced with the daily choice of painstakingly researching stories or writing whatever people tell them, Both approaches pay the same.
Contary to what you might beleive, the quotes that you see in news stories are rarely what was actually said and rarely in the original context. Most quotes are engineered by writers to support whatever notion they had before starting the story.

 

[SpaceChick]

It made me incredibly annoyed... it was like a diabetes freak show... kind of Big Brother meets diabetes.... making them have the two diets side by side was cruel.

Also, the assumption that type 2 is curable I also found upsetting. I became diabetic due to genetics, I already ate a low carb diet, no unrefined sugars, made everything from scratch and exercised above the recommended guidelines. I am overweight but not obese. Its medication and careful carb balancing that is keeping me under control. No matter what I do I will be unable to be cured, and if my family are anything to go by, I will become insulin dependant. I actually think I'm Type 1.5 rather than 2 but thats another discussion.

 

[Hooked]

The part of this programme that really had me fuming was when they showed the very overweight lady going in for her stomach reduction surgery and they were pinning all the blame for her weight and need for stomach reduction on her having T2 Diabetes. :evil: Really??!! Having not heard of any other medical problems the lady had, one can only assume that her weight need for a stomach reduction is a result of only one thing - overeating.

Surely T2 does not cause someone to over eat to the extent that the person's partner has to give up work in order to care for them and it reaches a stage were a stomach reduction is the only way forward. Blaming it all on her diabetes really made me mad.

Yes, there are T2s out there of many different shapes and sizes. In these cases it appears that developing a healthy relationship with food quite possibly could be of benefit in all aspects of their health. But is milkshakes replacing meals really the way to learn this? I dare say when those poor girls fall off the band wagon it will be a lot worse than those who had healthy meals to eat instead. I wonder 6 months down the line how these ladies will be doing.

 

[ljwilson]

The part of this programme that really had me fuming was when they showed the very overweight lady going in for her stomach reduction surgery and they were pinning all the blame for her weight and need for stomach reduction on her having T2 Diabetes. :evil: Really??!! Having not heard of any other medical problems the lady had, one can only assume that her weight need for a stomach reduction is a result of only one thing - overeating.

Surely T2 does not cause someone to over eat to the extent that the person's partner has to give up work in order to care for them and it reaches a stage were a stomach reduction is the only way forward. Blaming it all on her diabetes really made me mad.

Yes, there are T2s out there of many different shapes and sizes. In these cases it appears that developing a healthy relationship with food quite possibly could be of benefit in all aspects of their health. But is milkshakes replacing meals really the way to learn this? I dare say when those poor girls fall off the band wagon it will be a lot worse than those who had healthy meals to eat instead. I wonder 6 months down the line how these ladies will be doing.

That is when I started shouting at the TV too! Blaming her type 2 for everything right down to why she has sore feet never mind that she is carrying an excess 15 stone!! I found her to be very self pitying and she really irritated me, surprising that she used to me a Nursing Sister!

 

[phoenix]

But is milkshakes replacing meals really the way to learn this? I dare say when those poor girls fall off the band wagon it will be a lot worse than those who had healthy meals to eat instead. I wonder 6 months down the line how these ladies will be doing.

I agree with you about what happens during and after this very strict diet. There are some accounts on here; very varied responses both to the diet and what they did afterwards.
It's worth reading what Prof Taylor himself says about the diet
1) that the diet is very hard to follow and was necessarily a very fast, very low cal diet in order to compare it with the fast results of bariatric surgery BUT that the 'time course is much less important' and that he would not recommend a very low cal diet initially for most people with T2 because sustainability is important; ' a steady weight loss over a 5 – 6 month period is more likely to be successful in keeping weight down in the long terms'

2) He also points out that the diet can't work with misdiagnosed T2 (ie MODY, LADA or diabetes after repeated pancreatitis)
http://www.ncl.ac.uk/magres/research/di ... versal.htm

3) His theory revolves around people having too much fat around their organs and says what is too much is individual.

'A crucial point is that individuals have different levels of tolerance of fat within liver and pancreas. Only when a person has more fat than they can cope with does type 2 diabetes develop'......Some people can tolerate a BMI of 40 or more without getting diabetes. Others cannot tolerate a BMI of 22 without diabetes appearing, as their bodies are set to function normally at a BMI of, say 19

http://www.ncl.ac.uk/magres/research/di ... dy_000.pdf

Unfortunately none of the theory was mentioned in the programme; I suppose it wasn't that type of programme.

There is a fairly recent Guardian article about some people who have used the diet successfully . One was not obese before he started. He was10st 7lb before the diet and 8st 13lb after 11 days , at which point he stopped. His fasting glucose was 5.1mmol/l 2 months after the diet. ( these accounts are of course not scientific evidence, personally I would like to see a follow up of the original trial subjects) http://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle ... -diet-cure

 

[Hooked]

Interesting reading phoenix, thanks.

 

[Anonymous]

But is milkshakes replacing meals really the way to learn this? I dare say when those poor girls fall off the band wagon it will be a lot worse than those who had healthy meals to eat instead. I wonder 6 months down the line how these ladies will be doing.

I agree with you about what happens during and after this very strict diet. There are some accounts on here; very varied responses both to the diet and what they did afterwards.
It's worth reading what Prof Taylor himself says about the diet
1) that the diet is very hard to follow and was necessarily a very fast, very low cal diet in order to compare it with the fast results of bariatric surgery BUT that the 'time course is much less important' and that he would not recommend a very low cal diet initially for most people with T2 because sustainability is important; ' a steady weight loss over a 5 – 6 month period is more likely to be successful in keeping weight down in the long terms'

2) He also points out that the diet can't work with misdiagnosed T2 (ie MODY, LADA or diabetes after repeated pancreatitis)
http://www.ncl.ac.uk/magres/research/di ... versal.htm

3) His theory revolves around people having too much fat around their organs and says what is too much is individual.

'A crucial point is that individuals have different levels of tolerance of fat within liver and pancreas. Only when a person has more fat than they can cope with does type 2 diabetes develop'......Some people can tolerate a BMI of 40 or more without getting diabetes. Others cannot tolerate a BMI of 22 without diabetes appearing, as their bodies are set to function normally at a BMI of, say 19

http://www.ncl.ac.uk/magres/research/di ... dy_000.pdf

Unfortunately none of the theory was mentioned in the programme; I suppose it wasn't that type of programme.

There is a fairly recent Guardian article about some people who have used the diet successfully . One was not obese before he started. He was10st 7lb before the diet and 8st 13lb after 11 days , at which point he stopped. His fasting glucose was 5.1mmol/l 2 months after the diet. ( these accounts are of course not scientific evidence, personally I would like to see a follow up of the original trial subjects) http://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle ... -diet-cure

Is this the follow-up you were looking for?

http://www.ncl.ac.uk/magres/research/diabetes/CounterpointReflections.pdf

The 2nd paragraph on the left of page 137 (under Discussion) may be of particular interest.

I have asked previously on this site if any of the original subjects are here. The silence may indicate not and/or they are all cured and therefore have no need to be on this site. There are also quite a few people on this site who are on the ND or who will have completed the 8 weeks some time ago. Again I asked if anyone was prepared to give an update. Silence again. Never mind.

 

[charon]

This was about remission. Did they define what they meant by diabetes?
Often it is used to mean high BG, I disagree with that and it can lead to a lot of confusing statements.


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