False pretences?

[Kingsland]

I feel a bit of a fraud because its not me who is diabetic but my husband. However I badly need guidance so I hope you'll forgive an interloper as he won't ask for help himself.
He has been absolutely horrible since diagnosis a fortnight ago, and frankly I feel more like telling him to go to *ell on a handcart than trying to make him tasty low carb meals because he treats every meal I now make with suspicion and demands potatoes with everything, will not eat rice and snaps my head off whenever I try to suggest something healthy, I'm public enemy number one. Having read your comments from newly diagnosed members I now feel able to better understand how he's feeling, but I get very annoyed at his present attitude of simply eating everything he can lay his hands on. I can go to the fridge to make a meal and find he's eaten the ingredients, he goes out to our local pie shop (lovely pies!) and buy several and then eat them before coming home (I've seen the receipt - he's make a lousy criminal). Every meal is smothered in mayo or brown sauce. He's in complete denial and furious about it.
He is very overweight, I don't know by how much as our scales only go up to 20 stones, and is under the influence of a young lady who sells him 'shakes' to control this. The thing is, these shakes are meant to be meal replacements and he takes them as extras because they're 'slimming', eating one with his usual breakfast of 2 sl toast and marm, and another at bedtime.
Do I leave him to stew for a week or two and then start back on the diet bandwagon? I could go on, and probably will do in future ..... but some advice would be helpful. Especially - I'd like to know what to ask the NHS dietician we are due to see next week ...... she's given us leaflets on HIGH carbs. so I foresee a conflict here.
Oh and I am coeliac myself, so already on a restricted carb diet.
This is quite a rant, and I apologise - Admin please delete this thread and cancel my membership if I'm intruding.

 

[urbanracer]

Hi Kingsland, a lot of people stop by to ask questions on behalf of a loved one, it's not a problem for anyone here.

The initial stages after diagnosis can be quite daunting and difficult to deal with. I don't know your husband and only you can know whether he's likely to calm down after a while. Does he understand the risks of not getting it under control?

 

[Lazybones]

Well done for making a very difficult decision and contacting us here in the first instant. We've all been at the first stage when our diabetes is first confirmed and frequently deny that it could possibly be ME that has it. Diabetes is something that effects other people till final it entraps us as well.
Your husband does need to control what he eats and as a Type 2 diabetic, and the LCHF (Low Carb High Fat) diet that many of us follow will help him eat the right sort of foods and benefit his long term health as a result.
Study all you can by reading through the various sections and postings that are here. don't force anything onto him, but instead be suttle and introduce things slowly and steadily so he doesn't suspect any obvious changes. Never argue over anything diabetic with him as this will set him opposed to any changes even if they are for the better.
As to seeing the NHS dietician, well it would be advisable to learn from a practical point of view from us long term diabetics before your visit with the dietician. I should point out that the NHS dietary advise is not best suited to a Type 2 and they are known to generally tow the NHS party line when it comes to diet suggestions which we diabetics know to be completely wrong. Rice, Potatoes, cans of sugar based cola's should be avoided
Any questions that you have at this stage (there must be many) please ask, and we'll try to advise. The right sort odf diet with sensible exercise (walking, dancing rambling etc: works wonders in controlling Type 2 diabetes)
Good luck - Take each day as it comes with one small step forwards each day.

 

[Phlogiston]

Hi Kingsland,
Welcome.
It sounds as your husband has a number of issues relating to diet and isn't going to rationally adjust his diet to match his new circumstances.
It looks to me as if he is somewhere on the depressive spectrum. I'm guessing he may benefit from some psychiatric help or counselling.
It may be that after his initial anger at diagnosis he will come round.

I wouldn't worry about the no rice thing. Rice isn't particularly better for diabetics than potato other than being easier to control the portion size.
Try and get as many vegetables on the plate as possible.

However.
Until he wants to change, he won't.

You might find it useful to get some support -it might be worth talking to the doctor they might know of such things.
Best wishes
Adam

 

[kateincornwall]

Hi and welcome , even under trying circumstances . Maybe you would like to read the following to your husband ?
I am a diabetic but have kept it under good control since 2009 . My husband however, is a different kettle of fish entirely . Already physically disabled with poor mobility, he was diagnosed T2 about 18 months or so ago . Even though he could see the difference that diet had made to me , he was also in denial , thinking that nothing bad would happen to him and that he could " wing it " , how wrong he was . He has recently suffered a stroke, not a major one but a stroke all the same , not a TIA . The neurologist has attributed this to a dangerously high blood sugar spike, he has, and still is, undergoing scans , MRI , attending stoke clinic and now has to take warfarin and statins to help stave off another stroke . He is recovering well and thankfully, is now listening to me and taking positive action re diet , low carbs all the way for both of us . There is an old saying , You can take a horse to water but you cant make it drink , its very true indeed but I would hate for anyone else to go through what we have gone through over the past few months , and all because he thought it would never be him . This forum is great, for information and support , I hope you both find the help you need and good luck .

 

[Kingsland]

Hello Kate and thank you for your nice reply. What a time you've had, and what a worry for you! It seems to be a 'man' thing that makes them refuse to face up to the fact that part of their body has let them down or worn out or whatever its done that's making them ill, I do wish they'd grow up.
I do have an additional problem which may serve as a warning to others not to get sucked into this scam.
One huge thing that worries me is that our daughter in law is a distributor/coach for Herbalife and he is hooked on these shake meal replacements she sells. I haven't touched them myself because they contain gluten, but he drinks two per day - not I might add instead of meals but in addition to all the other food.
There is plenty of bad publicity about these shakes on the net, but he won't read them ..... and anyway our DIL is such a good saleswoman he's convinced they're doing him good - what a colossal waste of money! He's been taken them for 3 years but continues to gain weight (wonder why?) and I also wonder if they have contributed to his diabetes?
Anyway, I'll mention them to the nutritionist at the clinic when we see her on Tuesday, along with a question about when we can see a podiatrist and an optometrist (he will be furious with me but I need to get someone on my side). Bearing this in mind - the getting her on my side thing - I have decided not to challenge her if she bangs on about a high carb diet, but to make up my own mind and adapt my cooking to suit.
All the best to you and a real big hug for contacting me and telling your story.

 

[himtoo]

Hi Kingsland
i really feel for you -- doing your best to do the right thing and not getting anywhere.

You could try telling your husband that Diabetes is the largest single cause of amputations and one of the leading causes of blindness , along with kidney failure , strokes , and heart attacks. -- and that it is very much a silent killer until often it is too late.

none of us are immortal but those of us that actively manage our condition stand a much better chance of delaying or stopping these complications altogether
i wish you all the best

 

[plonkish_]

Hello and welcome. I've seen lots of people post on behalf of loved ones so no problem there This must be so frustrating and stressful for you because you can see that he needs to make changes but he's digging in his heels.

I had never heard of Herbalife so looked it up. There are lots of different types and I don't know what he takes but most of them have 'sugar' listed in various forms - fructose, lactose etc and a very long list of other ingredients. Looks pretty gross to me! Maybe your son needs to remind his wife that his father's health should come before profit.

 

[Daibell]

Hi and welcome. Don't forget that as it's carbs that he needs to reduce he can still have a nice juicy steak or any other combination of protein with fat. Yes, pies aren't good and neither is rice, but the meat without pastry is fine. How about egg and bacon for breakfast?

 

[JAY1JAY1]

Hi and welcome
How about if you try to cut down slowly on the carbs , I loved my spuds and pies in fact pie and mash was my favourite diner . But if you cut them down slightly bit at a time and make up with more meat and veg on the plate so it looks the same sized meal may help , don't do it to drastically it may help it helped me
Keep well stay safe JJ

 

[CollieBoy]

@Kingsland

Dont know where you are in the cookery stakes, but there are some quite good low carb pasry recipes that you could use to make some low carb pies!
Get him hooked on them & you could reel him in on a healthy AND "satisfying to him" diet.

 

[Brunneria]

Hi Love,

Its a very difficult place you are in, and I fully sympathise.

Unfortunately, the kind of secret binge eating of carbs that he is doing is a classic sign of glucose tolerance problems, carb cravings and a high carb diet. Think of it as an addiction. His body is used to eating carbs and has learned to function adequately (note I said adequately, not well) on that level of high carb. Then if his blood glucose drops, it goes into panic mode, craves carbs and he will binge eat. It is like a self perpetuating cycle. He won't be conscious of the process, but he will be enacting it daily, lurching from one carb to another in a kind of self-medicating hunger fest.

I expect he is moody, periodically sleepy, lethargic, irritable, distracted? Those are all signs of high blood glucose and swings in blood glucose.

He will also be dealing with the inevitable roller coaster of being newly diagnosed. We often get little more than a brief appt, a diet sheet and a prescription. And the diet sheet is usually useless. The shock is great, and the emotional adjustment can take months. Or years.

There is only one way off the merry-go-round and that is to cut the carbs down - cold turkey or gradually - so that the blood glucose drifts downwards and his body re-learns how to function well, on near normal blood glucose.

The problem that he has (and please remember that it is his problem, not yours), is that he will have to be willing to change, willing to learn, willing to open his mind, and willing to go through days or weeks of sometimes uncomfortable adjustment. Until he is ready to do that, you are banging your head against a brick wall.

I really feel for you.

 

[donnellysdogs]

Hi Kingsland

You are going to have a struggle but what I am more interested in is:

A) what was OH hba1c when diagnosed two weeks ago or his fasting glucose level?

B) what meds has OH been put on, if any?

I think dieticians and NHS staff in general listen to lower carbing, but switch off if higher fats are mentioned....

I think in your scenario I would be asking about calories and carbs and the shakes rather than the higher fats.....

At the end of the day most people are reticent to change... And they have to want to do it. No amount of direct pushing will get someone to change if they don't want to.sometimes though these persons will change slowly if they can see others around them doing change as well....

Eg... A totally different topic but I was brought up with huge amounts of love and cudddles.. My hubby had none at all. We were at opposite ends of the pole... However, realising this has allowed us to grow together and accomodating our pasts.....

Totally different to food scenario but its finding out whether you can meet in the middle somewhere with the food issues....

My hubby used to eat carbs away from me....and he was obese. It took me years to tell him that honestly I didn't find him attractive being obese. He changed. He now fits in to my size 10 jeans!! (Albeit they are 5" too short!!) he wanted to change after he realised from me finally telling him direct that I didn't find the extra weight attractive at all. He had to do it for himself after that but he has had huge encouragement from me. I had to change too, from being a person that literally would pull faces at his food and him... To loving and encouraging again.

Long story but it is possible to encourage change but after beating and pulling faces, and banging head against wall... Mine was telling him direct that I found obesity ugly on him...

The change has ben huge... He has got his self esteem back and after being told I would never get back the hubby that I married 20 years ago... I've got better...

I'm the diabetic, not him. Just like you have coeliac nd have to cope with that..

Look at your options and speak about lowering carbs, and the shakes but initially I would be wary of mentioning too much in the same sentence about higher fats....

 

[CarbsRok]

I can go to the fridge to make a meal and find he's eaten the ingredients, he goes out to our local pie shop (lovely pies!) and buy several and then eat them before coming home (I've seen the receipt - he's make a lousy criminal).

That's simple just don't cook or make a meal he has eaten the ingredients so he ain't hungry is he? Problem solved.
If he wont grow up treat him as a child.

 

[Brunneria]

Hi Kingsland

You are going to have a struggle but what I am more interested in is:

A) what was OH hba1c when diagnosed two weeks ago or his fasting glucose level?

B) what meds has OH been put on, if any?

I think dieticians and NHS staff in general listen to lower carbing, but switch off if higher fats are mentioned....

I think in your scenario I would be asking about calories and carbs and the shakes rather than the higher fats.....

At the end of the day most people are reticent to change... And they have to want to do it. No amount of direct pushing will get someone to change if they don't want to.sometimes though these persons will change slowly if they can see others around them doing change as well....

Eg... A totally different topic but I was brought up with huge amounts of love and cudddles.. My hubby had none at all. We were at opposite ends of the pole... However, realising this has allowed us to grow together and accomodating our pasts.....

Totally different to food scenario but its finding out whether you can meet in the middle somewhere with the food issues....

My hubby used to eat carbs away from me....and he was obese. It took me years to tell him that honestly I didn't find him attractive being obese. He changed. He now fits in to my size 10 jeans!! (Albeit they are 5" too short!!) he wanted to change after he realised from me finally telling him direct that I didn't find the extra weight attractive at all. He had to do it for himself after that but he has had huge encouragement from me. I had to change too, from being a person that literally would pull faces at his food and him... To loving and encouraging again.

Long story but it is possible to encourage change but after beating and pulling faces, and banging head against wall... Mine was telling him direct that I found obesity ugly on him...

The change has ben huge... He has got his self esteem back and after being told I would never get back the hubby that I married 20 years ago... I've got better...

I'm the diabetic, not him. Just like you have coeliac nd have to cope with that..

Look at your options and speak about lowering carbs, and the shakes but initially I would be wary of mentioning too much in the same sentence about higher fats....

I'm sorry Donnellysdogs, but I think that for a newly diagnosed diabetic who is already struggling, being told by their wife that they don't find them attractive, is a REALLY bad idea.

Or have I misinterpreted your post?

I may have. You covered several different subjects.

 

[donnellysdogs]

No you haven't misinterpreted as such... But and however... It is finding a way through the frustrations of (men??) finding a way to helping that person accept change.. We are all different... But its finding that middle road of acceptance for change somewhere. Perhaps not now, (and not so extreme!!) which is the suggestion for lower carbs..and the shakes but Not higher fat to be discussed... And the differing scenarios of loving we had as children.. Sometimes middle road is an option...
Change is something the vast majority of us don't want....
Not saying to tell OH not attractive etc, but in the hope really that Kingsland can find her way through to find her way to find her way to find a way to help acceptance of change with partner..

Its **** tough on partners when the person doesn't want change... I put it alongside of heart attacks and people having heart bypasses done.... That is a huge wake up call.... Most accept the need for some change as they see the scars etc... And they do make changes if they are necessary...

Diabetes just isn't seen in the same sort of light... It can be a hard slog for anybody to get change.... Its finding what is specific to that person to make them accept change... Or both realusing a middle road..

Sorry, I do muddle my thoughts but really saying..

People have to want to change and have reasons that they want to change and the biggest thing though is support.

Support to partners as well, as there is no direct "fix it" that we can all take..

 

[AndBreathe]

I completely agree that for a sustained change to occur the person making the change has to want to do it, and stick with it, and that can clearly be a challenge, as you know. At two weeks in, it's still very early doors, and you never know what's actually going on in his head. Some people seem to need to have a big final hurrah before a change (in his case a binging carb-fest?), whilst others seem to want to change immediately. The diagnosis may have hit him harder than you or he appreciate at this stage.

I have worked a lot with Change, and had a great deal of success in both corporate and personal environments. If I can share what really isn't a secret, and may feel like I'm stating the obvious, but in my view is absolutely, utterly and fundamentally critical in Change. That is, the concept of, "What's in it for me?"

People don't make sustained change because they're told to, if they can't see any benefit to them. If they can see what's in it for them, then you have an opening for negotiation. For your husband, the "what's in it" is very unlikely to be "I'll feel much better", because he may not feel that bad, or bad at all, so it's trying to find something he might rather fancy hanging onto.

His change motivator could be trimming up a bit. It could be new clothes. It could be getting into the driving seat as far as food and meal choices are concerned. Who knows.

When I was diagnosed, I actually just got on with the research to find out what I could or couldn't eat, but my OH is the cook in our house. He decided that telling me what was for dinner was going to be like picking his way through an unmarked minefield, so he put the responsibility onto me to plan menus. I had to decide what we ate every day and every evening. Whilst that might seem like a load of fun, it quickly lost it's lustre when I started running out of ideas! But, it meant I was fairly and squarely in control of my diet, and any bloopers would be my bloopers. Poor old MrB ate a load of thing that would never have been his choice, but I think he knew I had to do this thing my own way for it to work.

Could it be worthwhile having a conversation about the things he really is struggling to even consider giving up, and then try negotiating experimenting with making those things differently? I know that probably sounds bonkers, but if he likes steak and kidney pudding, for example, I'm sure there are loads of low carb S&P recipes on the net that could be tried. I'm always astonished by the number of people on here who say they've not given up any of the favourite meals, but they tackle them differently. They have nut flour pastry, or celeriac chips, or cauliflower rice, as examples. These alternatives may not taste exactly the same as the originals, but they can hit the spot.

Dr Google is a great ally, in the search for the same, but different.

Maybe I'm pitching the "What's in it" in the wrong direction, but you probably know what motivates him, most of the time. Work with the positives, rather than the negatives.

Good luck with it all. I can't say I envy you, but it's the start of a change process, and to coin all the cliches, "Rome wasn't built in a day". If by pushing today all you are going to achieve is a longer rebellion, then maybe it would be wise to adopt a watching brief and time the battle, when you feel you may have a chance of winning it.

 

[June_C]

I completely agree that for a sustained change to occur the person making the change has to want to do it, and stick with it, and that can clearly be a challenge, as you know. At two weeks in, it's still very early doors, and you never know what's actually going on in his head. Some people seem to need to have a big final hurrah before a change (in his case a binging carb-fest?), whilst others seem to want to change immediately. The diagnosis may have hit him harder than you or he appreciate at this stage.

I have worked a lot with Change, and had a great deal of success in both corporate and personal environments. If I can share what really isn't a secret, and may feel like I'm stating the obvious, but in my view is absolutely, utterly and fundamentally critical in Change. That is, the concept of, "What's in it for me?"

People don't make sustained change because they're told to, if they can't see any benefit to them. If they can see what's in it for them, then you have an opening for negotiation. For your husband, the "what's in it" is very unlikely to be "I'll feel much better", because he may not feel that bad, or bad at all, so it's trying to find something he might rather fancy hanging onto.

His change motivator could be trimming up a bit. It could be new clothes. It could be getting into the driving seat as far as food and meal choices are concerned. Who knows.

When I was diagnosed, I actually just got on with the research to find out what I could or couldn't eat, but my OH is the cook in our house. He decided that telling me what was for dinner was going to be like picking his way through an unmarked minefield, so he put the responsibility onto me to plan menus. I had to decide what we ate every day and every evening. Whilst that might seem like a load of fun, it quickly lost it's lustre when I started running out of ideas! But, it meant I was fairly and squarely in control of my diet, and any bloopers would be my bloopers. Poor old MrB ate a load of thing that would never have been his choice, but I think he knew I had to do this thing my own way for it to work.

Could it be worthwhile having a conversation about the things he really is struggling to even consider giving up, and then try negotiating experimenting with making those things differently? I know that probably sounds bonkers, but if he likes steak and kidney pudding, for example, I'm sure there are loads of low carb S&P recipes on the net that could be tried. I'm always astonished by the number of people on here who say they've not given up any of the favourite meals, but they tackle them differently. They have nut flour pastry, or celeriac chips, or cauliflower rice, as examples. These alternatives may not taste exactly the same as the originals, but they can hit the spot.

Dr Google is a great ally, in the search for the same, but different.

Maybe I'm pitching the "What's in it" in the wrong direction, but you probably know what motivates him, most of the time. Work with the positives, rather than the negatives.

Good luck with it all. I can't say I envy you, but it's the start of a change process, and to coin all the cliches, "Rome wasn't built in a day". If by pushing today all you are going to achieve is a longer rebellion, then maybe it would be wise to adopt a watching brief and time the battle, when you feel you may have a chance of winning it.

Love your post, very wise advice.

 

[Jaylee]

No you haven't misinterpreted as such... But and however... It is finding a way through the frustrations of (men??) finding a way to helping that person accept change.. We are all different... But its finding that middle road of acceptance for change somewhere. Perhaps not now, (and not so extreme!!) which is the suggestion for lower carbs..and the shakes but Not higher fat to be discussed... And the differing scenarios of loving we had as children.. Sometimes middle road is an option...
Change is something the vast majority of us don't want....
Not saying to tell OH not attractive etc, but in the hope really that Kingsland can find her way through to find her way to find her way to find a way to help acceptance of change with partner..

Its **** tough on partners when the person doesn't want change... I put it alongside of heart attacks and people having heart bypasses done.... That is a huge wake up call.... Most accept the need for some change as they see the scars etc... And they do make changes if they are necessary...

Diabetes just isn't seen in the same sort of light... It can be a hard slog for anybody to get change.... Its finding what is specific to that person to make them accept change... Or both realusing a middle road..

Sorry, I do muddle my thoughts but really saying..

People have to want to change and have reasons that they want to change and the biggest thing though is support.

Support to partners as well, as there is no direct "fix it" that we can all take..

Hi, wow. Phew... I'm glad you explained that.. Because male or female. I feel positive encouragement highlighting heathy benefits is key, with sensible "science" & goals that can't be refuted in a healthy relationship..

 

[AndBreathe]

I feel a bit of a fraud because its not me who is diabetic but my husband. However I badly need guidance so I hope you'll forgive an interloper as he won't ask for help himself.
He has been absolutely horrible since diagnosis a fortnight ago, and frankly I feel more like telling him to go to *ell on a handcart than trying to make him tasty low carb meals because he treats every meal I now make with suspicion and demands potatoes with everything, will not eat rice and snaps my head off whenever I try to suggest something healthy, I'm public enemy number one. Having read your comments from newly diagnosed members I now feel able to better understand how he's feeling, but I get very annoyed at his present attitude of simply eating everything he can lay his hands on. I can go to the fridge to make a meal and find he's eaten the ingredients, he goes out to our local pie shop (lovely pies!) and buy several and then eat them before coming home (I've seen the receipt - he's make a lousy criminal). Every meal is smothered in mayo or brown sauce. He's in complete denial and furious about it.
He is very overweight, I don't know by how much as our scales only go up to 20 stones, and is under the influence of a young lady who sells him 'shakes' to control this. The thing is, these shakes are meant to be meal replacements and he takes them as extras because they're 'slimming', eating one with his usual breakfast of 2 sl toast and marm, and another at bedtime.
Do I leave him to stew for a week or two and then start back on the diet bandwagon? I could go on, and probably will do in future ..... but some advice would be helpful. Especially - I'd like to know what to ask the NHS dietician we are due to see next week ...... she's given us leaflets on HIGH carbs. so I foresee a conflict here.
Oh and I am coeliac myself, so already on a restricted carb diet.
This is quite a rant, and I apologise - Admin please delete this thread and cancel my membership if I'm intruding.

Thinking about this overnight, I think it's probably worth looking at the link below, which is an illustration of the stages of grief. Clearly grief is a wide ranging term, in his case, pertaining to elements of his lifestyle:

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-iEKJLzk4_...JY/s1600/5-stages-of-grief-kubler-ross-22.png

Again, Dr Google has lots on this sort of thing, but this particular image contains a couple of non-classic, but I think valid steps we often see here. Whilst it doesn't necessarily provide any answers, it may provide some reassurance that some of your husband's behaviour could be classified as "normal" or even to be expected.

Again, good luck with it all. Take it steady.