13.4 in a non diabetic?

[Doireallyneedanams]

I have gestational diabetes for the second time and this evening jokingly tested my boyfriends bloods after he’d had a non alcohol beer and a whole pack of sweets containing the below -

Carbohydrate	86.5g
Sugars	57.0g

His glucose after the beer was 9.9 but after the sweets I was shocked to see his glucose at 13.4. It dropped to 9 within 20 minutes and we didn’t check again, but presumably back to normal by the 45min-1 hour mark. The other day he was only at 7.8 after a full roast dinner and Gu pudding so this took me by surprise!

He has no symptoms, no family history and is slim and active.

Someone tell me this can be normal? I’ve read a random glucose of over 11 is a diabetes diagnosis but presumably people don’t walk in to the doctors after consuming this huge amount of sugar.

 

[CatsFive]

Think the clue is 'the full pack of sweets'!

 

[Doireallyneedanams]

Think the clue is 'the full pack of sweets'!

@CatsFive Absolutely. It’s just knowing that a random glucose over 11 is a “diagnosis” according to everything I’ve seen.

 

[KennyA]

@CatsFive Absolutely. It’s just knowing that a random glucose over 11 is a “diagnosis” according to everything I’ve seen.

According to Bilous and Donnelly (Handbook of Diabetes pg 9) a diagnosis can be made following a random plasma glucose level of 11.1mmom/l or more in someone with typical symptoms of diabetes.

I think the latter half of the sentence sometimes gets forgotten. Alcohol free beer will (as you've seen) have plenty of carbs in it and no alcohol to suppress the liver adding glucose. The additional carb and sugar from the sweets will have added the rest.

The fact levels came down quickly seems to me to indicate a decent and probably non-diabetic insulin response.

 

[Doireallyneedanams]

According to Bilous and Donnelly (Handbook of Diabetes pg 9) a diagnosis can be made following a random plasma glucose level of 11.1mmom/l or more in someone with typical symptoms of diabetes.

I think the latter half of the sentence sometimes gets forgotten. Alcohol free beer will (as you've seen) have plenty of carbs in it and no alcohol to suppress the liver adding glucose. The additional carb and sugar from the sweets will have added the rest.

The fact levels came down quickly seems to me to indicate a decent and probably non-diabetic insulin response.

@KennyA I hope so! He’s quite touchy whenever I mention getting an hba1c to double check.

In my first pregnancy with GD I did a lot of reading and even now struggle to find examples of non diabetics glucose experiments reaching levels of 13! But, none of these people are eating such huge amounts of carb and sugar. They tend to test the usual porridge, bread etc.

It’s interesting really, I thought I’d find someone who had completed an OGTT whilst wearing a CGM but nope.

I know when I had my OGTT I just had to be under 7.8 at 2 hours post 50g glucose drink (or was it 75g?) so I suppose there’s nothing to say people don’t hit numbers of 13/14 before the 2 hours are up. Saying that, there’s the 3 hour test which will catch that and I think a result of over 10 at 1 hour is a diabetes diagnosis (in pregnancy, at least.)

 

[In Response]

Have you checked your meter?
Given they have an accuracy of +/-15%, 13.4 could be as low as 10.7 (or as high as 16.1)

 

[Doireallyneedanams]

Have you checked your meter?
Given they have an accuracy of +/-15%, 13.4 could be as low as 10.7 (or as high as 16.1)

@In Response Yeah, mine is fairly new and given to me by the hospital after my own diagnosis. My readings are all fairly consistent with what I’d expect (which has never, ever (!) been anywhere near 13, but obviously haven’t scarfed a full bag of sweets to test it…)

 

[ElenaP]

The

@In Response Yeah, mine is fairly new and given to me by the hospital after my own diagnosis. My readings are all fairly consistent with what I’d expect (which has never, ever (!) been anywhere near 13, but obviously haven’t scarfed a full bag of sweets to test it…)

The lesson here is that the meter was given to you, to keep an eye on your health. Please do not get too concerned about your boyfriend's readings after he had consumed lots of carbohydrates, and may or may not have washed his fingers. Good luck with a healthy pregnancy.

 

[KennyA]

@KennyA I hope so! He’s quite touchy whenever I mention getting an hba1c to double check.

In my first pregnancy with GD I did a lot of reading and even now struggle to find examples of non diabetics glucose experiments reaching levels of 13! But, none of these people are eating such huge amounts of carb and sugar. They tend to test the usual porridge, bread etc.

It’s interesting really, I thought I’d find someone who had completed an OGTT whilst wearing a CGM but nope.

I know when I had my OGTT I just had to be under 7.8 at 2 hours post 50g glucose drink (or was it 75g?) so I suppose there’s nothing to say people don’t hit numbers of 13/14 before the 2 hours are up. Saying that, there’s the 3 hour test which will catch that and I think a result of over 10 at 1 hour is a diabetes diagnosis (in pregnancy, at least.)

As more non-diabetic people are trying out CGMs there are a few more "normal/ non-diabetic" graphs appearing on the internet - usually people panicking because the levels are going up and down.

You may well have tested at exactly the high point as the bulk of the glucose hit the bloodstream. I can get to 9s 20 minutes after a small latte (lactose only), so with a lot more sugar you might well expect a higher initial level. As others have said, the meter inaccuracy means you shouldn't get too hung up on the exact number.

If you'd tested at the two hour mark you'd have a better idea of how his system handled it. The issue for T2s is inability to clear glucose from the blood so we have elevated levels for lengthy periods. One way to help with that is to reduce the amount of carbohydrate/glucose taken in.

 

[Doireallyneedanams]

The

The lesson here is that the meter was given to you, to keep an eye on your health. Please do not get too concerned about your boyfriend's readings after he had consumed lots of carbohydrates, and may or may not have washed his fingers. It is a waste of test strips. Good luck with a healthy pregnancy.

@ElenaP This is true, but we share a little boy and with another on the way, I obviously would prefer us to both look after our health the best we can. He’s never had any sort of health issues so hasn’t ever had reason to look into.

 

[Westley]

You mentioned that after a full roast dinner and dessert it wasn't as high - that does make sense. That would give me a big rise, but over several hours, and in a non diabetic the natural insulin should easily keep up.
It seems counter intuitive but if I'm going to eat something sweet like a dessert then after a meal is the easiest to manage because it's buffered by all the other food.

I'd expect a much bigger spike from beer(non alcoholic is often just as high or higher carb) and loads of sugar with little else on an empty stomach, even if the total carbs was lower.

Still, 13.4 does sound too high for a non diabetic, and I don't think you're wrong to be concerned.
As T1s we talk a lot about hypo sensitivity, but I find my hyperglycaemia sensitivity also varies with my control. I feel physically uncomfortable above 9 and absolutely rotten above 13, (like a hot overinflated balloon) but when I was younger and my control was worse those symptoms didn't kick in until much higher levels.
In my eyes the fact that he felt fine at that high is enough to justify pushing for an HbA1c. If there is something going on, even asymptomatic, better to catch it early and adjust.

 

[ElenaP]

@ElenaP This is true, but we share a little boy and with another on the way, I obviously would prefer us to both look after our health the best we can. He’s never had any sort of health issues so hasn’t ever had reason to look into.

Yes, of course, you want to stay healthy for your children's sake. Perhaps you already eat healthy, non-processed foods to stay well for years to come, so that you can enjoy life.

 

[ElenaP]

I have gestational diabetes for the second time

As a bit of encouragement: My niece (daughter of a type 1 mother) had gestational diabetes with both of her pregnancies. Her two sons are now nine and 12, and both are healthy and delightful.

 

[Doireallyneedanams]

As a bit of encouragement: My niece (daughter of a type 1 mother) had gestational diabetes with both of her pregnancies. Her two sons are now nine and 12, and both are healthy and delightful.

that’s great to read, thanks.

I have two siblings with type 2, unfortunately the genetics are strong for us so my side definitely need to be careful, I will hopefully be able to instill this in my kids but for now….. it’s Halloween

 

[EllieM]

Just a thought, but did you double check the result? Meter readings can be completely out occasionally, so it is possible that it is a rogue reading.

And here's a link to a study where non diabetics wore a cgm.

Continuous Glucose Monitoring Profiles in Healthy Nondiabetic Participants: A Multicenter Prospective Study

Use of continuous glucose monitoring (CGM) is increasing for insulin-requiring patients with diabetes. Although data on glycemic profiles of healthy, nondiabetic individuals exist for older sensors, assessment of glycemic metrics with new-generation CGM ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

 

[Doireallyneedanams]

Just a thought, but did you double check the result? Meter readings can be completely out occasionally, so it is possible that it is a rogue reading.

And here's a link to a study where non diabetics wore a cgm.

Continuous Glucose Monitoring Profiles in Healthy Nondiabetic Participants: A Multicenter Prospective Study

Use of continuous glucose monitoring (CGM) is increasing for insulin-requiring patients with diabetes. Although data on glycemic profiles of healthy, nondiabetic individuals exist for older sensors, assessment of glycemic metrics with new-generation CGM ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Thanks. Not immediately, but 20 min later I got him to re wash his hands and that’s when he was at 9ish. So, I do believe the 13 was accurate, just a very quick spike and immediately back down. Overall it was a huge load of carb and especially with the bulk being sweets, maybe it was normal after all.

He has begrudgingly agreed to see the doctor for an hba1c, but I suspect the GP will try and resist seeing as he has no symptoms. I’m sure it’ll come back normal, but at least I will have peace of mind!!! As mentioned the other day he was well in the normal range after a roast and pudding, so at least he knows he’s not always running in the high range. Both my brothers received a shock diagnosis in their 50’s with random glucose of around 16/17. My partner is early 30’s, fit, healthy, no family history, active, balanced diet - absolutely would not be expected really.

 

[Antje77]

He has begrudgingly agreed to see the doctor for an hba1c, but I suspect the GP will try and resist seeing as he has no symptoms. I’m sure it’ll come back normal, but at least I will have peace of mind!!!

I think it's perfectly reasonable to request an hba1c for peace of mind.

 

[Doireallyneedanams]

Well, GP obviously unconcerned but agreed to hba1c. Will see what comes back in a few weeks!

 

[PenguinMum]

My non diabetic OH decided it was more practical to eat my LC bread especially for toast and reduce liquid bread aka beer though he still eats chips and rice and prefers fruit salad to puddings (unless we’re out and theres Sticky Toffee Pudding !). Anyway he has full bloods checked regularly for other reasons and his recent A1c has dropped 4 points just by eating LC bread it would appear.

 

[Jakeinhd1995]

Any updatw on husbands hba1c??