1st week BG numbers and likelihood/benefits of medication

[brightstation]

Hi

I was diagnosed (T2) just over a week ago and booked in to see the nurse tomorrow. My reaction was I guess typical, lots of unpleasant research and a change to my diet. Straight after my diagnosis (on my way home) I purchased a BG monitor , and kept track of the readings to see if my crash low carb diet is helping. Numbers are (daily from diagnosis until today):

Fasting: 8.6, 8.5, 8.5, 8.2, 7.8, 7.6, 7.4, 7.1
2Hrs after dinner: 10.4, 9.1, 8.6, 8.8, 8.5, 8.2, 7.7, 7.2

I am keen to hear your views on the figures (good/bad) and in particular if you think my GP/Nurse will recommend medication or will see if the situation can be managed by diet initially. If they do prescribe metformin, should I delay taking it to see if I can stay in the safe zone by diet alone or are there advantages to taking it

Many Thanks

B

 

[Daibell]

Re: 1st week BG numbers and likelihood/benefits of medicatio

Hi. Your figures are showing a dramatic improvement over such a short time; well done. I personally wouldn't have thought Metformin was needed at present as your results are not far from normal but the nurse may suggest a low level dose anyway. You could agree to leave it a bit longer and wait for the doc/nurse to do an HBa1C test.

 

[DaveNN]

Re: 1st week BG numbers and likelihood/benefits of medicatio

Hi, even with my limited knowledge.... The Nos speak for themselves as does the trend.
How much exercise are you doing and what type?
I'm seeing what 20 mins of anaerobic (resistant ) exercise does, 11/2 hours after dinner.
Of course, it would take time to repeat and 'prove' ... And I'm sure that thisvscalreadyvdocumented on here on in the web... but it would be interesting to see what I come up with.
I ve not been diagnosed as of yet- but my doc appears desperate to do so!

I hope that you continue to 'improve' and will report back.

 

[Yorksman]

Re: 1st week BG numbers and likelihood/benefits of medicatio

The trend is good. Stick with it. They are not way too high anyway and waiting 3 months for a hba1c isn't going to be a serious delay. My meter manual says the odd reading of 11 is nothing to worry about but if they become frequent, see the doctor. The nurse told me similar but her figures were higher, she mentioned 15s and 16s. You are not in danger with the figures you are getting and whatever it is that you have dropped from your earlier diet seems to be doing the trick. Definitely see if you can manage with diet and exercise alone. I declined meds on the 8th Jan and yesterday and today, I have hit four readings in the 5s. Exercise is important too.

 

[Yorksman]

Re: 1st week BG numbers and likelihood/benefits of medicatio

I'm seeing what 20 mins of anaerobic (resistant ) exercise does, 11/2 hours after dinner.

Hi Dave, you may like to keep an eye on the work of the team in Newcastle. One of them is undertaking a two year project on this: "The effect of exercise on metabolism and liver lipid in people with Type 2 Diabetes"

As and when they publish their findings, they post it up on this page: http://www.ncl.ac.uk/magres/research/diabetes/ Roy Taylor is best known for the Lin et al study, "Reversal of type 2 diabetes: normalisation of beta cell function in association with decreased pancreas and liver triacylglycerol."

 

[DaveNN]

Re: 1st week BG numbers and likelihood/benefits of medicatio

Hello sir!
Thanks for this.
I was reading a paper on exercise v weight (bmi) and it does appear that exercise plays a massive part in reducing bg levels.
That in itself is obvious... But not the weight bit.
I'm now into a routine of a 4 to 6 mile walk every other day (dodgy hips, too many years in a dojo, permitting) and 20 mins weights likewise.
I came in, after eating nothing all day and I was as 6.8.
Some pork tongue and a huge bowl of chilli for dinner... and I was at 7.3 ... 2 hours later. With 20 mins of pushing weights.
Mmmmm....

 

[annew]

Re: 1st week BG numbers and likelihood/benefits of medicatio

Hi Brightstation, welcome to the forum.
Your results are looking really good. I was diagnosed at the end of August 2012 and like you immediately started the low carb regime. When I met the nurse, who suggested immediate medication, I simply asked for 3 months to see if I could sort it. She agreed - and also prescribed testing kit. Now my readings are all down to 4-6s have had 1 reading of 7.2 post eating in early January. So it certainly works for me, hope it will for you. Think it would be better to be upfront and refuse the prescription rather than accept it and not take - then they'll put down any good progress to the medication!
Good luck.
Anne

 

[hallii]

Re: 1st week BG numbers and likelihood/benefits of medicatio

Just don't try and do it all in a week. Your body takes time to get used to the lower sugars and there is evidence that very quick reductions in BGs can affect your eyesight in particular.

Carry on the good work, try to do it over maybe a couple of months and get down to whatever you feel comfortable with.

By being comfortable I mean it is not worth making your life miserable just to avoid taking a simple medication like metformin.

H

 

[DaveNN]

Re: 1st week BG numbers and likelihood/benefits of medicatio

Halli, that's a very good point.
However, my own fear is if I get pushed onto meds- where does it end?
I'm not afraid of some of the possible side affects of metformiin ( flatulence) .... as being a bloke with a 16 and 7 year old lads in the house such a thing is used as topic for discussion, a weapon or something to break the ice at a wake!!!
I wonder if being on such a medication can take away some of the will power and determination needed when low carbing/dieting and if 500 mg then leads to 1000mg, then another med, then insulin etc.

 

[Yorksman]

Re: 1st week BG numbers and likelihood/benefits of medicatio

By being comfortable I mean it is not worth making your life miserable just to avoid taking a simple medication like metformin.

That's a difficult one because some people will take it precisely because they think that it will allow them to carry on as before and avoid making difficult changes. I understand the reasoning, metformin isn't that bad, don't get hung up about it, but people easily convince themselves that it doesn't apply to them or they keep putting things off.

 

[DaveNN]

Re: 1st week BG numbers and likelihood/benefits of medicatio

Hi all,
I've had my met for just over a week now.
My average BG fig has dropped from 8.1 to 7.6.
In week one I had two 10+ figs with the lowest night time being 7.2.
My pre breakfast figs have an average of at 8.3 and my pre bed have been at 7.2 throughout.
Average post lunch is now 6.9 from 7.6, with post dinners showing a similar trend.. From 7.7 to 7.3.
Too many 7's in here for my liking...but only one 8.. So this is encouraging.
I've dropped my carb allowance to 60g and am feeling ok!

 

[Yorksman]

Re: 1st week BG numbers and likelihood/benefits of medicatio

Good progress Dave. Tomorrow I shall try mackerel for breakfast. Porridge takes me into the low 7s. I'm mostly 6s but quite a few 5s showing now at the end of my 4th week.

An interesting paper on the Newcastle site showed that BG levels after lunch are higher if one doesn't have a breakfast. Eat a breakfast and a comparable lunch will give a lowe reading. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2699724/

They tested this phenomenon because they have to work out insulin doses more acurately but it it still interesting for people who want to control it by diet alone. It seems that regular meals help even the process out.

 

[DaveNN]

Re: 1st week BG numbers and likelihood/benefits of medicatio

Hi and thanks for the link!
The breakfast thing is quite interesting.., I recently popped in a 6.8 a that was in the mid afternoon, with nothing since e night before, except a glass of low sugar vimpto.
My weight loss has stopped- though I suspect that I am building muscle mass again.
Will now set my calories at 1000 a day and see if I can kick start it again.
Christ I don't half miss.... Well... Not that much to be honest.
That said I could murder a cider!

 

[Yorksman]

Re: 1st week BG numbers and likelihood/benefits of medicatio

About 20 years ago I lost a few stone through diet and exercise and noticed that I would drop three or four pounds and then level out for a few days and then would start losing again. This step by step process evenincluded episodes of a little gain now and again though the diet remained the same throughout. I then noticed that during the even periods I acually changed shape. Shirts which were tight fitted better, one more notch on the belt was required. When I would drop some pounds, there was no reduction in size. That always lagged behind. I have noticed a similar pattern now.

Apple cider vinegar by the way, one teaspoon mixed with two teaspoons of water drops your blood sugar. It's also meant to be good for diabetes. Doesn't taste as good as Taunton's best though. Citric acid is also good for you. I use a zero calorie, zero carb, zero lemon cheap lemonade from the supermarket, but then I add the juice of a freshly squeezed lemon. Tastes better than any of these gourmet lemonades at £2.50 per bottle at a fraction of the price.

 

[DaveNN]

Re: 1st week BG numbers and likelihood/benefits of medicatio

Yeh... I've been reading about citric acid and how it can help.
I'm a merrydown man to be honest.... though the Stella cidre is acceptable.
I get their point with the weight and shape.
Whilst I'm the usual type 2 " shape" ... That is most of my fat held on my girth ( as seen on sky 1 and challenge tv), my face has started to get that chiseled look again!
I'm sure that the weight will drop again- but I do seem to struggle with a low carb diet these days.
It's almost as if my body has decide to really hang on to its fat for dear life. I know that this phenomena is explainable.
Oh..just banged in a 6.1... after a 11/2 hour walk but no lunch.
That's the lowest mid day reading by a some margin- even lower that one where I basically starved for about 18 hours..

 

[DaveNN]

Re: 1st week BG numbers and likelihood/benefits of medicatio

After a 6.2 this morning I had a large ham and rocket wrap and then went for a decent walk for a hour.
Came in and banged in a 4.8...... What the flip?
I'm on a starve tonight, in readiness for a blood test at the docs tomorrow.
I'm really tempted to go for a wander before and ( all things being equal) pop in another low baller.
It won't help my hba1c figures- but it may be enough to convince the doc ( next week) to keep me off any pills for another 3 months.....,

IS THIS CHEATING?


If he does push the metformin this way I will probably not take them and give myself another 3 months of this.
Either way, I can see no reason why he won't prescribe some ruddy strips- at £28 for 50 it's a bit pricey!

Edit:-

And now after a meal of cod in something or other.... A nice 5.9!
I have done a quick 20 mins on the weights...
I suspect that the very nice hovis crackers did me mid afternoon!
I'm on about 50g of carb a day.... But blew that by a slack handful today!

 

[Yorksman]

Re: 1st week BG numbers and likelihood/benefits of medicatio

Well you are getting plenty of readings in the lower ranges so that is a convincing demonstration that you have brought them down through diet and exercise alone. I'm tempted to say what does your doc want? Blood?

From the docs point of view, he has heard it a thousand times before. Can I control it without medication? But, they should take the time to work out what is best for the individual, not just pidgeon hole you as yet another one who hasn't been looking after themselves.

Regarding carbs, I'm still experimenting but it looks very much as if I will be able to follow a principle that, as long as it is whole grain, they are OK.

Good luck at the docs!

 

[DaveNN]

Re: 1st week BG numbers and likelihood/benefits of medicatio

Well you are getting plenty of readings in the lower ranges so that is a convincing demonstration that you have brought them down through diet and exercise alone. I'm tempted to say what does your doc want? Blood?

From the docs point of view, he has heard it a thousand times before. Can I control it without medication? But, they should take the time to work out what is best for the individual, not just pidgeon hole you as yet another one who hasn't been looking after themselves.

Regarding carbs, I'm still experimenting but it looks very much as if I will be able to follow a principle that, as long as it is whole grain, they are OK.

Good luck at the docs!

Cheers!
Just after my test I banged in a 5.9 with a 6.2 on waking.

Low carbing isn't creating a problem..though the lack of weight loss is weird.
I'm on more more than 1400calories a day now- with at least 300 being burnt off with walking.

As I spend about 8 hrs in bed a night- I figure that having no carbs at night ( evening meal) should help- but I have also read that having a light snack at night stops the liver from dumping glucose into the system.
BUT.... Any reduction in calories ( in any form) must be beneficial when looking to lose weight.

 

[Yorksman]

Re: 1st week BG numbers and likelihood/benefits of medicatio

Tried some whole grain pasta tonight and it is true it does relase slowly and over a long period of time. Pre meal was 6.6 and two afters after, 7.1. Two hours after that it was still 7.1.

I find the same with whole grain rice, about half a point, though the rice drops off after three hours. On the plus side, I still don't want anything to eat so I figure half a point rise for the entire evening is not bad at all. 7.1 seems to be a ceiling for me thesedays. I wonder if I will miss the dawn bounce tomorrow, I usually get it if I am in the 5s when I go to bed.

 

[DaveNN]

Re: 1st week BG numbers and likelihood/benefits of medicatio

All carbs are evil!

I did a bit of an experiment last night.
I haid a big bowl of chilli ( those where you bang all the stuff in a bag and stick in the oven) with extra chilli and beans, a mars bar, 2 whispas and a beer!
A hour and a half later I banged in a 12.5, was at 9.6 on waking and a 8 after a short walk ( felt rough!) this morning!
The better half went mental.... and doesn't grasp why I HAD to do it.
I've felt brilliant over the past week and now feel like washed out.... The difference is palpable even after 24 hrs.
Anyway, sensible low carb eating it is... and may allow metformin if Bupa ( later) suggest it.