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"A Single Cheeseburger Can Trigger Changes In Body Linked To Diabetes"

  • Thread starter Thread starter asparagusp
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No wonder so many have fat phobia, are obese and have diabetes, they think low fat and 60% carbs are healthy! B.B.B. Not my initials by the way but what I think to the article. D.
 
asparagusp said:
This current article in The Independent just makes my blood boil! ..... http://www.independent.co.uk/life-s...m-oil-german-dusseldorf-journal-a7542631.html - Fools!
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Why does this article irritate you @asparagusp?

From what I'm reading, it seems pretty accurate - especially with regards to fats and their impact on insulin sensitivity. It's an interesting theory, and something many insulin dependent diabetics (all types) can suffer from. You may have heard it referred to before as the "pizza effect" or the like?
 
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Many here advocate the LCHF diet to help their diabetic management. Cream instead of skimmed milk in coffee and the similar eating patterns is much the norm with these LCHF deterrers. It's the white bun and chips that are (high GI) carbohydrates which converts to glucose when consumed ..... The medical profession are recognising this at last. However my Endocrinologist said eating high fat was not for me as I am slim. I perhaps will ask him to elaborate when I see him on Friday.
 
These types of nonsense do not bother me. They are almost exclusively in the context of someone who is not fat adapted and always come with a **** load of carbs. Completely irrelevant to me. People are starting to realise that its carbs that are the problem and what we are witnessing with these moral panic type articles are the final death throws of an industry that knows its increasingly coming under scrutiny for its lies and science led manipulation of facts. The truth will out. hopefully in my lifetime so I can celebrate with a lump of lard and a vape :-)
 
GrantGam said:
Why does this article irritate you @asparagusp?

From what I'm reading, it seems pretty accurate - especially with regards to fats and their impact on insulin sensitivity. It's an interesting theory, and something many insulin dependent diabetics (all types) can suffer from. You may have heard it referred to before as the "pizza effect" or the like?
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I thought the pizza effect was about the fat flattening and prolonging any spike caused by the carbs in the base?
Do Type 1's adjust their insulin for fat?
 
Apart from anything else - according to my cronometer ,

palm oil contains 50% saturated fat ( and there is other evidence - including my own that saturated fats bring down trigyclerides ) ,

palm oil contains 45 times as much omega 6 compared to omega 3 ( where the advice is that one should be looking to a maximum range of 5:1 to 1: 1 not 45:1 .

Neither does anyone advocate sitting down and eating a pile of undiluted fat in place of a meal, so its difficult to understand what anyone thought they would prove.

To then equate that to a cheeseburger and chips and describe the whole lot as saturated fat -which is patently isn't, is just sloppy at best .
 
Absurd. Stuff a test subject with a combo of carbs and fats (whether it is a cheeseburger or a vanilla drink with palm oil), and then blame the fats for increased insulin resistance.
Doesn't even merit the claim that it is a scientific experiment.
 
bulkbiker said:
I thought the pizza effect was about the fat flattening and prolonging any spike caused by the carbs in the base?
Do Type 1's adjust their insulin for fat?
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It does indeed flatten potential spikes, certainly with me it does but it also cause a gradual BG rise many hours after eating which is strange and hard to anticipate. For that reason many insulin users have to split their bolus dose to compensate for the delayed rise. Have a read through this, I stole it from @noblehead - it's very interesting and describes the issue with insulin resistance and fat intake.

http://www.mendosa.com/The-Fat-of-the-Matter-How-Dietary-Fat-Effects-Blood-Glucose.htm

As far as I'm aware, a T1 wouldn't typically bolus for fat - moreover, they would manipulate their injection (usually by splitting the dose) as described earlier, and possible increasing it some. It's a very bizarre situation as it's my understanding that the fat is merely a catalyst that's making the impact of the carbohydrates more noticeable. And because of that, you can't really apply any logic from a ratio or the like as you would with an I:C ratio for example.

It's all very interesting because it's not a "one size fits all" problem. Some may get chronic pizza effect, whereas the next person may have no issues with the combining high levels of carbs and fats at all.[/QUOTE]
 
GrantGam said:
It does indeed flatten potential spikes, certainly with me it does but it also cause a gradual BG rise many hours after eating which is strange and hard to anticipate. For that reason many insulin users have to split their bolus dose to compensate for the delayed rise. Have a read through this, I stole it from @noblehead - it's very interesting and describes the issue with insulin resistance and fat intake.

http://www.mendosa.com/The-Fat-of-the-Matter-How-Dietary-Fat-Effects-Blood-Glucose.htm

As far as I'm aware, a T1 wouldn't typically bolus for fat - moreover, they would manipulate their injection (usually by splitting the dose) as described earlier, and possible increasing it some. It's a very bizarre situation as it's my understanding that the fat is merely a catalyst that's making the impact of the carbohydrates more noticeable. And because of that, you can't really apply any logic from a ratio or the like as you would with an I:C ratio for example.

It's all very interesting because it's not a "one size fits all" problem. Some may get chronic pizza effect, whereas the next person may have no issues with the combining high levels of carbs and fats at all.
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It's quite funny reading the advocates of 'one size fits all' at times, as my experience is much the same as the study that's being so readily dismissed out of hand.
 
My interpretation of the Mendosa blog (link above) is it assumes these insulin dependent diabetics are also eating carbs.
I am low carb (around 30g) with high fat including saturated fats but I don't see any late rises at all according to my Libre. I do (did) rise after getting up for much of the morning, but have now stopped this .... by eating fat for breakfast very soon after getting out of bed. (less than 10 minutes). I no longer rise. Also, overnight I drop.
 
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GrantGam said:
It does indeed flatten potential spikes, certainly with me it does but it also cause a gradual BG rise many hours after eating which is strange and hard to anticipate. For that reason many insulin users have to split their bolus dose to compensate for the delayed rise. Have a read through this, I stole it from @noblehead - it's very interesting and describes the issue with insulin resistance and fat intake.

http://www.mendosa.com/The-Fat-of-the-Matter-How-Dietary-Fat-Effects-Blood-Glucose.htm

As far as I'm aware, a T1 wouldn't typically bolus for fat - moreover, they would manipulate their injection (usually by splitting the dose) as described earlier, and possible increasing it some. It's a very bizarre situation as it's my understanding that the fat is merely a catalyst that's making the impact of the carbohydrates more noticeable. And because of that, you can't really apply any logic from a ratio or the like as you would with an I:C ratio for example.

It's all very interesting because it's not a "one size fits all" problem. Some may get chronic pizza effect, whereas the next person may have no issues with the combining high levels of carbs and fats at all.
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[/QUOTE]

Thanks for that article link.. but could it not be the rise in blood glucose after a while is caused by the fat delaying the effects of the carbs rather than being caused by the fat itself? i.e. the later rise is from the ingested carbs.
I guess the easy way to test would be to eat some fat and see what happens to the blood glucose. I know that in my case after a BPC my blood sugar goes down.
 
douglas99 said:
It's quite funny reading the advocates of 'one size fits all' at times, as my experience is much the same as the study that's being so readily dismissed out of hand.
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I would say that people are dismissing the study because the effects were not demonstrated by giving the study participants a cheeseburger but instead a palm oil drink which contained the same amount of fat. To draw any conclusions from this - that eating a cheeseburger would do anything bad - is possibly rather tortuous to say the least.
 
I'm not disputing that the fat, saturated or otherwise may well be having an impact on metabolism and blood glucose, nor do I think one size fits all, we are all very different . That is why I advocate that for T2's at least, they find out a bit more about how they react to diet, before they are persuaded into adopting the doctor's one size fits all prescription policy. Again not because I think there is any shame/ fault or indeed anything wrong with taking the drugs, just that it does appear to be accepted wisdom here that the diet will probably have more effect that the drugs and when you change two things together you have no idea which one is doing what.

Given how many people seem to reach adversely to metformin, it seems a pity if they become reliant on that drug without actually knowing if they are reliant or not - its scary enough having diabetes without having to try and take those kind of decisions.

Given that as diabetics we are told - stop eating carbs, when headlines also state stop eating (badly described ) fats too - then its not too long before we all think - there are no options left but to starve and take drug

Way back in the early research lots of things were being described as saturated fats when in practice whilst saturated fat may well be a part of that particular product, it is not necessarily the most significant part of that product and it would be more helpful for all of us if as we try to make decisions about our own health and an appropriate course of action we didn't get " sensationalist" headlines stating as fact something that is badly described which then gets used in other contexts.
 
bulkbiker said:
I thought the pizza effect was about the fat flattening and prolonging any spike caused by the carbs in the base?
Do Type 1's adjust their insulin for fat?
Click to expand...

Hi,
Only in the sense of the timing of the bolus dose for the carbs & protein.. Or possibly even splitting a dose for the aforementioned when fat is involved too..?
Fat is not taken into consideration with regards to the actual bolus amount though.. (However it gets timed.) Not with me anyhow....
 

Thanks for that article link.. but could it not be the rise in blood glucose after a while is caused by the fat delaying the effects of the carbs rather than being caused by the fat itself? i.e. the later rise is from the ingested carbs.
I guess the easy way to test would be to eat some fat and see what happens to the blood glucose. I know that in my case after a BPC my blood sugar goes down.[/QUOTE]
No worries, it's a good read.

Oh most definitely, it's only really applicable to a combination of fat/carbs I would have thought. I'm pretty confident that the fat is just a catalyst in this situation. But going from what I read, the fat does increase insulin resistance (it would seem) - making the bolused insulin less effective for the carbohydrate it was meant to cover.

Glass of olive oil for dinner tonight and tomorrow I'll have another glass with chips:)
 
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