After one week on low-carbs. Should I rather try Keto?

[cristis]

First time in my life I switched to this healthy lifestyle. All well, but I have some serious side-effects (headaches, lack of energy, dizziness etc), I can hardly do anything else. I take more salt and vitamines (as recommended) and I control my transitive hypos, but still.

I see many people say they don't feel necessarily great on just low carbs. And my goal is also to loose weight ASAP.

Should I rather not waste all this time and try something more radical directly, such as Keto? I know that's a diet, I know what it does, and I will also see my doctor before starting it (if I go for it). But I am interested in other opinions. Any reason why I should NOT do it?

 

[Jared1]

Personally I just went low carb and doctor said was in ketosis any way - I don't really know much about it but think of lower your carbs as long as not having to much protein you'll end up in keto any way. I'm doing weight loss fast as can so count calories and carbs I'm. usually bit under 1000cal a day and under 30g carbs (that's about the max any way most days under 20) I easily have lost over 2kg a week and over the last 5-6 weeks. On top of that I go on exercycle for 10min after most meals and at least a 20 min fast walk 6 days a week. Prior to that I was a take away and net flix king - I find I feel **** if Dont do any thing for a day and even though it's still hard work doing exercise I defantly feel better the next day for it - one big difference is I used to fall asleep easily in arvo but not any more - get better sleep at night, days a better.

Don't really know if that helps or answers your question guess what I'm saying is stick with it and will get easier- maybe try not drop your carb intake to fast and that a keto diet is a low carb diet - can't get in to ketosis with lots of carbs

 

[cristis]

Thanks, @Jared1, any opinion helps!

You may be lucky to be in ketosis already, because you limited carbs below 30g daily and likely you eat enough fat. But low carbs does not mean Keto (see this)!

For instance, with my low carbs, I eat a lot of vegetables and maybe not enough fat to force my body switch into ketosis (this is when the body starts to burn fat for energy, instead of glucose from carbs).

I also exercise a lot, but to loose weight faster it's maybe better now to push my body for a ketosis, even if it's a radical choice. I'm curious if anyone here would advise me NOT to do it.

 

[Jared1]

@cristis yea that's why I said not to much protein-your body will turn it in to glucose but your right you do need fats - I couldint even tell you how much I have but eat allot of fish, cheese and nuts seems to work.

What I've found is I've read so much **** that's conflicting most articles promoting what ever is their subject and saying why other things won't work etc for example article you sent goes on about starvation - were as 2 days ago was reading something about how fasting is so great who really knows it just gets confusing really - short answer I guess is that no one knows what will work for individuals what I do know is if find something that works then stick with it-

 

[Robbity]

First time in my life I switched to this healthy lifestyle. All well, but I have some serious side-effects (headaches, lack of energy, dizziness etc), I can hardly do anything else. I take more salt and vitamines (as recommended) and I control my transitive hypos, but still.

I see many people say they don't feel necessarily great on just low carbs. And my goal is also to loose weight ASAP.

Should I rather not waste all this time and try something more radical directly, such as Keto? I know that's a diet, I know what it does, and I will also see my doctor before starting it (if I go for it). But I am interested in other opinions.

Google low carb/Atkins/keto "flu" - carbs can be very addictive and you're possibly going through withdrawal symptoms, which will eventually clear up when your body get s used to your new diet. A ketogenic diet is even lower carb, so isn't likely to make any difference to such symptoms. But If they are too much of a problem try reducing carb levels more gradually instead.

Rather than specifically aim for ketosis you need eat low enough carbs for long enough to get your body to make a chemical change to enable it to (re-)start burning fats as well as carbs. Again check Google, or have a look at http://www.tuitnutrition.com/2016/01/dont-be-a-ketard1.html

 

[Kristin251]

I thrive in ketosis so I have no reason to say you should not do it. My health benefits are numerous in ketosis. I keep my per carbs day under 20 and protein MODERATE The rest are fats

 

[woodenone46]

I took diet Doctor 2 week challenge, which is a Ketyogenic diet of no more than 20g carbs per day. I actually finish it today & I have lost 3.4Kg in that time. I have also noticed a significant lowering of BG.
I do also run 3 times a week & this may have helped ith the weight loss
Everybody is different & there are things that you need to watch out for. I only had one bad headache but that soon went.
My advice would be to head over to the Diet Doctor web site & see what you think.
You can alter some of the meals in the plans as long as you stay 20g carbs or lower

 

[cristis]

I took diet Doctor 2 week challenge, which is a Ketyogenic diet of no more than 20g carbs per day. I actually finish it today & I have lost 3.4Kg in that time. I have also noticed a significant lowering of BG.
I do also run 3 times a week & this may have helped ith the weight loss
Everybody is different & there are things that you need to watch out for. I only had one bad headache but that soon went.
My advice would be to head over to the Diet Doctor web site & see what you think.
You can alter some of the meals in the plans as long as you stay 20g carbs or lower

Thanks for the tip!

Yes, I think I'll take that challenge. Great site as well...

 

[Alison Campbell]

Hi cristis, I don't think one week on low carb is enough to judge a change in diet and your body may just be missing the carbs. I have been low carb for 6 years and I am much better for it. How low carb have you been over the week?

Many people thrive on a keto diet and you maybe one so won't know it unless you try it! Also you need to give it more than a week to properly evaluate it. Some people like to ease into keto and some jump right in. There is certainly a wealth of info on here and around the web to help you get it right.

It is not just about what you eat or don't eat (stress, sleeping and exercise play a part in diabetes improvement) I quite like this other article from the site you mentioned:
http://www.dranthonygustin.com/why-ketosis-isnt-healthy/

This is one of my favourite web site for diabetes related nutrition and weight loss. https://optimisingnutrition.com/2017/01/15/how-optimize-your-diet-for-your-insulin-resistance/

 

[cristis]

Hi cristis, ...

Thanks a lot, Alison! Great article about Keto NOT being so healthy after all, and I see why: we restrict fruits and eat a bit too much fat, no matter the result. There is however one magic word missing there: "diabetes"! Because, unlike other healthier people using Keto, we have to change our lifestyle with a strict diet anyway.

I may look a bit impatient, but if I also want some fast results, this doesn't mean all the changes I lately made are not here to stay. For life. I love that I was able to get rid lately of sugar, alcohol, most carbs, three years ago cigarettes, and I just feel it may pump me up even more, if I continue to dig in for other spectacular results. I'll clearly continue with the low carb diet, but I'll just push the limits a bit.

Even the author of your first article, who was against Keto, recognized something that made me smile:

"A ketogenic diet certainly can be an incredible way of eating to reduce inflammation, improve energy, regulate metabolism, lose fat, and more."

Too tempting...

 

[Alison Campbell]

Thanks a lot, Alison! Great article about Keto NOT being so healthy after all, and I see why: we restrict fruits and eat a bit too much fat, no matter the result.

Actually I don't think that is was he is saying about fat or fruit. I took it as if you eat processed rubbish junk food with few carbs you can be in ketosis but not necessarily healthy.

Mental health, stress, sleep also plays a part in overall health as well as eating real (the kind of food and ingredients your grandparents would recognise) high quality food within your budget.

 

[cristis]

Actually I don't think that is was he is saying about fat or fruit. I took it as if you eat processed rubbish junk food with few carbs you can be in ketosis but not necessarily healthy.

You're right. I got them mixed up with my own perception

...It's interesting he said nothing about fruits! They have sugar indeed, but it's natural fructose...

 

[Oldvatr]

Hi. I am doing the Pioppi diet, which is basically a slightly higher carb diet than a keto diet (50 -> 80g), but in essence it is like LCHF but without needing very low carbs, and hence not totally in keto. I use Intermittent Fasting to drop me down into keto when I need to, and that I am comfortable with.

My reasons were that I was I was a TOFI (thin outside, Fat inside) and was already at my ideal BMI. I found going full keto took too much off, and I was having to be silly with the fat to bring it back to my BMI. Now on Pioppi I eat moderate good fat, and can now have the occasional slice of bread without going stratospheric. I find it is an easier diet to maintain long term and it also suits my family who also share my meals. ~ My fussy daughter loves LC and has lost the need for junk food,

Going full keto suits some here, but for me Pioppi+ IF gives me both worlds, so my weight has been quite stable for 2 years now. My bgl is also doing well - I am stll diabetic, but out of the danger zone I was in when following NHS Eatwell.

I have tried full keto to get myself Fat Adapted, and the benefits are that as a T2D my hypo's have been very manageable, and I have significantly reduced my medications all round. My BP has dropped to Normal, and my Lipid panel has returned to good levels as well. ~(although LCHF did push them up a bit while I was losing weight).

It is up to you to decide what diet to take up. I would advise going gently into it and not seek to push the limits to lose weight quickly. Slowly, Slowly catchee monkey. That way it becomes more a way of life than a diet, and you have a better chance of keeping it going. I just passed my 900th day on an LC diet and I have no desire to change things now. I have just halted one of my meds completely, and I am still running a low daily bgl average.

 

[Alison Campbell]

Not really it is just an article about getting your priorities straight. That is also what the article @Robbity posted above also says.

The second link I posted to is much more of practical how to, what to eat.


"A ketogenic diet certainly can be an incredible way of eating to reduce inflammation, improve energy, regulate metabolism, lose fat, and more."

The type 2/prediabetes is known as part of metabolic syndrome we are covered by this quote.

I think it is important to work out what your priorities are. Mine has always been to avoid a type 2 diagnosis although I did lose my way on a weight loss kick for a bit and got 6 stone lighter but my highest HBA1C ever.

There is plenty of research around to show that the fruit available now is sweeter with less nutrients than ever before and certainly for me needs limiting/choosing carefully given the results on my blood glucose meter. Do also look at the research/theories around fructose, type 2 and fatty liver.

 

[Mbaker]

In general if you have been a carb person (like most persons in a modern society), your body expects and craves sugar maybe every 3 to 4 hours - you are trying to switch from sugar to fat burning, which is a massive change physically and psychologically.

If you can cope with high intensity you can do what I did to remove 10 kg. I ate low GI foods such as couscous, sweet potatoes, home made soda bread (which in hindsight was not optimal for me) with good meats, fish, full fat yogurt and vegetables. I static cycled intensely circa 90 rpm with a resistance setting of 13 (Lifecycle equipment) for 30 minutes, then with no rest 3 sets of bicep curls, bench presses, shoulder presses, sit ups and weighted calf extensions. I did this in the morning and repeated at night. That was the basics to which I would add some Karate blocks, punches and kicks intensely for circa 3 minutes. When I got hungry I would have some fish protein (another pointer in hindsight that I was not optimal, but the weight did come off). I do remember having a lack of energy and dizziness on this protocol (initially), but blood sugars improved to just non-diabetic and weight was 10 kg solid down.

Moving to LCHF instantly moved me down a further 2 kg. This was without hunger. Actually I felt too full so moved from 3 meals to 2 meals. LCHF is either a means in its own right to a full satisfying eating lifestyle, or a gateway that will surprise you. By accident I moved into 16 / 6 intermittent fasting with LCHF.

Since Christmas I have moved to one meal a day almost full time. Last week for one day I did 2 meals and was too full the next day. On Friday I went to my business networking group where breakfast is served at circa 06.35. I decided the breakfast would be my one meal of the day. I took the opportunity to do a 34 hour fast (my longest). I have lost 3.4 kilos in the last month.

All a long winded way of saying for maximum weight loss I would do one meal a day (LCHF dinner, afters (I have a small plate of nuts, circa 500 grams, between 4 and 8 squares of 100% dark chocolate, either mixed berries or crunchy peanut butter with celery) which means 23 - 24 hour fast with walking and weights if you can. I still can't believe I do this, it is surreal. Body fat is down on all 3 of my scales to between 10 and 11.9.

 

[cristis]

Hi. I am doing the Pioppi diet, which is basically a slightly higher carb diet than a keto diet (50 -> 80g), but in essence it is like LCHF but without needing very low carbs, and hence not totally in keto...

Very interesting and good to know, Oldvatr! I would point out however that something "not totally in keto" cannot actually exist. Your body is either in a ketosis state or not. And it consumes either glucose or fat, as fuel.

I'll look more into this diet, but I'm truly afraid switching your body so often to burn either glucose, or fat, may be even more aggressive for most of us. These are serious metabolic changes.

It may work well for you, because of your TOFI constitution. But this could be a reason why this diet has not been widely adopted. Just saying...

 

[cristis]

In general if you have been a carb person (like most persons in a modern society), your body expects and craves sugar maybe every 3 to 4 hours - you are trying to switch from sugar to fat burning, which is a massive change physically and psychologically.

If you can cope with high intensity you can do what I did to remove 10 kg. I ate low GI foods such as couscous, sweet potatoes, home made soda bread (which in hindsight was not optimal for me) with good meats, fish, full fat yogurt and vegetables. I static cycled intensely circa 90 rpm with a resistance setting of 13 (Lifecycle equipment) for 30 minutes, then with no rest 3 sets of bicep curls, bench presses, shoulder presses, sit ups and weighted calf extensions. I did this in the morning and repeated at night. That was the basics to which I would add some Karate blocks, punches and kicks intensely for circa 3 minutes. When I got hungry I would have some fish protein (another pointer in hindsight that I was not optimal, but the weight did come off). I do remember having a lack of energy and dizziness on this protocol (initially), but blood sugars improved to just non-diabetic and weight was 10 kg solid down.

Moving to LCHF instantly moved me down a further 2 kg. This was without hunger. Actually I felt too full so moved from 3 meals to 2 meals. LCHF is either a means in its own right to a full satisfying eating lifestyle, or a gateway that will surprise you. By accident I moved into 16 / 6 intermittent fasting with LCHF.

Since Christmas I have moved to one meal a day almost full time. Last week for one day I did 2 meals and was too full the next day. On Friday I went to my business networking group where breakfast is served at circa 06.35. I decided the breakfast would be my one meal of the day. I took the opportunity to do a 34 hour fast (my longest). I have lost 3.4 kilos in the last month.

All a long winded way of saying for maximum weight loss I would do one meal a day (LCHF dinner, afters (I have a small plate of nuts, circa 500 grams, between 4 and 8 squares of 100% dark chocolate, either mixed berries or crunchy peanut butter with celery) which means 23 - 24 hour fast with walking and weights if you can. I still can't believe I do this, it is surreal. Body fat is down on all 3 of my scales to between 10 and 11.9.

Interesting approach, thanks for sharing. Just wondering, however: you should be pretty young, if I am not mistaken, and your body may take a toll for such inconsistent efforts.

I'm not a fan of skipping meals. For many years I used to skip breakfast and that's not very healthy. IMHO, healthiest body requires at least three meals a day.

 

[Oldvatr]

Very interesting and good to know, Oldvatr! I would point out however that something "not totally in keto" cannot actually exist. Your body is either in a ketosis state or not. And it consumes either glucose or fat, as fuel.

I'll look more into this diet, but I'm truly afraid switching your body so often to burn either glucose, or fat, may be even more aggressive for most of us. These are serious metabolic changes.

It may work well for you, because of your TOFI constitution. But this could be a reason why this diet has not been widely adopted. Just saying...

If I leave out my fried bread then I keto, If I include it then I do not keto. It is a simple switch to one side or other of my personal threshold. So I can vary it from day to day so I am not Total by any means. As my bgl drops in the day, so I may slip into keto too, and if I hypo the fat burning preserves my higher functions so I do not need assistance, which is convenient,
The switch is simple once your body has adapted to fat burning. It is how our ancient ancestors survived through feasting then famine as food sources changed daily. I have no fear of ketosis, but then again why should I? Its a natural body function that we were designed for or adapted to from time when man first walked this planet.

You call it agressive. I call it control so my body mass and bgl both become fine tuned to my needs. Keeping in one or other state permanently actually loses that control, and then one needs to keep changing diets as weight yo-yo's or bgl spikes and dips.

It is easy to do this once you understand how your body works and reacts. So I do not need to consider using the ND to reset my status and then worry about maintenance follow up. My current diet does it all for me.

 

[cristis]

If I leave out my fried bread then I keto, If I include it then I do not keto. It is a simple switch to one side or other of my personal threshold. So I can vary it from day to day so I am not Total by any means. As my bgl drops in the day, so I may slip into keto too, and if I hypo the fat burning preserves my higher functions so I do not need assistance, which is convenient,
The switch is simple once your body has adapted to fat burning. It is how our ancient ancestors survived through feasting then famine as food sources changed daily. I have no fear of ketosis, but then again why should I? Its a natural body function that we were designed for or adapted to from time when man first walked this planet.

You call it agressive. I call it control so my body mass and bgl both become fine tuned to my needs. Keeping in one or other state permanently actually loses that control, and then one needs to keep changing diets as weight yo-yo's or bgl spikes and dips.

It is easy to do this once you understand how your body works and reacts. So I do not need to consider using the ND to reset my status and then worry about maintenance follow up. My current diet does it all for me.

As I said, I'm glad this works for you so well. I am actually a bit jealous: I doubt everybody could switch so easily from ketosis back and forth, with no harm and feeling no side-effects

...Any reason why this diet is not widely adopted and more popular?

 

[Oldvatr]

Very interesting and good to know, Oldvatr! I would point out however that something "not totally in keto" cannot actually exist. Your body is either in a ketosis state or not. And it consumes either glucose or fat, as fuel.

I'll look more into this diet, but I'm truly afraid switching your body so often to burn either glucose, or fat, may be even more aggressive for most of us. These are serious metabolic changes.

It may work well for you, because of your TOFI constitution. But this could be a reason why this diet has not been widely adopted. Just saying...

The LC diets are not widely adopted as you put it, because the Piper is calling the tune, and the Piper pays for most research and publicity, and is pulling all the strings. The Piper is making more money from selling drugs and cutting people open, and selling starchy foods and sugary drinks than is to be made from any LC diet. The Piper is protecting its interests avidly.

PS the Pioppi diet I use was only recently announced in late 2017 -18 and follows the work of Aseem Maholtra who is an eminent Cardiologist at Frimley Hospital, so he is by no means a Quack. The diet is based on the diet used for years by the area around the town of Pioppi in Italy, which is where it gets its name from. It is for CVE, not diabetes, but works well for both.