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Another reason to watch those carbs...

viviennem said:
The only trouble with posts is that they have no body language. Easy to misunderstand someone!

Viv 8)
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I also believe that the mood of the reader and the "reputation" of the poster can add to the misunderstanding and confusion.
 
Ok guys - you can put your swords away now. Can we please just talk about the bread thread and not about personal differences and misunderstandings? :) I don't want this important subject to die from 'last word syndrome'.

I am the Coroner, and the inquest is well and truly over.......

Thank you.
 
Ka-Mon said:
Ok Grant, put yourself in my shoes and ask yourself how you would react if you read the same article about this bread. I believe that you would not react any differently if you didn't have a clue about the ingredients and the [Biblical] history of the bread and neither would anyone else.
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Actually no, KaMon, I wouldn't have reacted that way at all. We live in a time where anything that has 'any religious' overtone to it - makes people 'react' is such a way.. It's an 'overreaction' to me - but that's another matter. I DO hear you.. Really I do.. And thanks for clarifying a lot in the portions I haven't quoted here.

I also believe that the way you reacted was a combination of the "warm" welcome you received by some members and possibly read that I was one of the "trouble making thugs" who are members of a certain "clique".
<<big section cut out>>
You are not the only one whose had a "warm welcome" from some members, many have been treated the same way, including myself.
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I totally hear you, KaMon. We seem to have entered a 'certain hornet's nest' upon our entry. Be that as it may... Thanks for your conciliatory words. I get it -- really I do. I did 'overreact'. Mea culpa..

BACK TO BREAD!!!

Someone didn't answer my question from earlier though -- as to whether a 'sprouted bread' would still have its nutrients in tact -- or are they gone too from not enough 'fermenting' period as we've been discussing?
 
AliB said:
Ok guys - you can put your swords away now. Can we please just talk about the bread thread and not about personal differences and misunderstandings? :) I don't want this important subject to die from 'last word syndrome'.

I am the Coroner, and the inquest is well and truly over.......

Thank you.
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No swords drawn AliB, just a friendly chat to make sure we have not misunderstood each other, happens in other threads as well. :wink:
 
Ka-Mon said:
No swords drawn AliB, just a friendly chat to make sure we have not misunderstood each other, happens in other threads as well. :wink:
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I completely agree with KaMon here. I was not injured in any way. :mrgreen:
 
The answer is Grant, that I don't know about the gluten aspect of sprouted grains, however, as far as the nutrients are concerned, they are much more nutritious, because not only have the phytates been neutralised, but the germination triggers the nutrient 'storm' to nurture the growing grain.

I suspect, if the grain is soaked for long enough (12 hours minimum), the gluten would also be converted too, but have not tried it to find out.

As long as the 'bread' has not been subjected to too high a heat then the nutrients should all be intact. I think some may deteriorate a bit over time though. Plants and grains are only at their best when used and prepared fresh, and that includes them being ground for flour.

I believe the Weston Price Foundation procedure is to soak the grains then redry them. They can then be ground when needed. I wish we knew more about the ancient ways and why.

There is just way too much meddling going on and not enough attention to ancient ways and diets. People always ate plenty of fats too, as well as preparing their grains and seeds properly, either animal - lard, butter, tallow, ghee, etc. or plant-based, like coconut and olive oils too. There was an article in the DM saying that 1 in 20 women are entering early menopause and they don't know why. I can tell them - the low-fat craze has withheld the important fatty acids from the body, acids that are needed to support cholesterol production which makes all sorts of things including hormones - oestrogen, etc.

http://www.womentowomen.com/healthyweig ... terol.aspx
 
="...You have to be careful what you read in 'blogs'. There are usually 'agendas'. That's the bread. He makes no scientific statements. It's a 'spouted bread' product. I buy it for THAT aspect - not anything to do with any Christian underpinnings. There are other 'sprouted' bread products out there under different names. But to get educated about it -- Google -- 'sprouted breads'.


Yes, I agree about having to be careful what you read in blogs but there is a picture of the "Ezekeil Bread 4:12 with Human Dung" written on it. I don't think he will be silly enough to forge a product like that no matter what his "agenda" was.

I think the makers of the bread would sue him from here to Kingdom come and force his ISP to close his blog immediately if he was lying. The fact that that article has been up since 2006 tells me that they can't do anything about it because it is true what he wrote. And why would he need to make a "scientific statement"? Surely an original picture of the original bread is ample proof of his claims, is it not?
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Hello to all,
The original post was amazingly informative and logical, it has highlighted for me another avenue for investigation, and YES, there are some very informative sites and blogs out there, but as stated above - Be Careful What You Read (and believe) In Blogs.

If you go back to the web page where the guy has a picture of the 4:12 (dung bread) and scroll all the way to the bottom, you will see that he has a footnote disclaiming the truth of the 'Dung Bread'.

The rest of his blog is apparently true...


With so much DISinformation about, one really has to research and research to drill down to the truth.

I have been looking into ingredients that are routinely placed into our foods and what I have found is Extremely disturbing.

Take excitotoxins (Flavour Enhancers or as they now fashionably call them 'umami') the FDA and other 'responsible' bodies have passed them as being fit for human consumption, but they are NOT, and although a lot of the population will not have immediate reactions to them they create a degeneration in ones health that leads to diseases like Diabetes, Alzheimers, Parkinson's etc.

We are being advised by the mainstream 'responsible' bodies that they are relatively safe and that it is only conspiracy nuts who believe otherwise, yet there are genuine concerned knowledgeable experts out there who are NOT afraid to speak out against the corporate machine that is happy to slowly poison us in the name of greed.

I speak from personal experience and would simply urge anyone to research it for themselves, don't just take my word for it (Nor the word of those who directly reap the financial benefit form having us gagging for more 'mediocre' foodstuffs just because our brains are reeling from the chemical [ and addictive] delusion that it tastes better.

Here are some links that I have gathered that lay open the deceit of the food industry and pharma corporations.


Please excuse the fact that I do NOT know how to get the web links to highlight on this post, but if you copy the link manually to the browser address bar then you may follow the links.

Check out the toxic effects of food additives:
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ELgW4KBY-o4[/youtube]

There should have been a YouTube vid just above but it won't appear, so here is its actual link.(what am I doing wrong?)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ELgW4KBY-o4

This one is very informative:
www.video.google.com.au/videoplay?docid=-2384105525501310962&q=excitotoxins&total=11&start=0&num=100&so=0&type=search&plindex=0

7 Foods So Unsafe Even Farmers Won't Eat Them:
www.planetgreen.discovery.com/food-health/foods-unsafe-doctors-eat.html

This next one is on the face of it total baloney and dangerous!
Yet I have been drinking water & salt (at least 2L/day) since 2007 and the improvement it has made to my health is unbelieveable, and now that I am armed with another possible line of causation (as per the original post) I guess I can look forward to becoming even better.

Water Cure:
www.watercure.com/
www.watercure2.org/

Why Water is GOOD for you:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=1TDR99jy5mU
www.youtube.com/watch?v=OCUhR1GBtMY&feature=related
www.youtube.com/watch?v=8SbB7j0J2f4

20 Healthiest Foods that actually killing you slowly:
www.projectswole.com/healthy-lifestyle/20-unhealthy-foods-that-you-think-are-healthy-but-are-actually-killing-you-slowly/

Please accept my apologies it it appears like I am hijacking this thread, but I just appreciated the new info and saw the mistaken belief in the 'dung bread' as being real and having spotted the footnote I thought I should point it out.
 
You are right of course in that most people don't actually drink pure water on it's own.

All additives are dehydrating, all sugars are dehydrating, all carbohydrates are dehydrating, all chemicals are dehydrating, all alcohols are dehydrating, tea and coffee are dehydrating and even herb and fruit teas are dehydrating.

I find that some of the fruit teas - especially those containing hibiscus, suck the water out of my body - my mouth gets so dry after drinking them I need another drink! After having a cup of coffee I can pee for England!

I was always nagging my son to add more water to his carton fruit juice, but did he listen? He would drink it virtually neat (not to mention the cost!) and ten minutes later would come wandering back into the kitchen saying he was thirsty! Of course he was. The sugar in the fruit juice had sucked more water out of him than it had given him.

I never used to drink plain water. It always made me thirsty. Doh. I hadn't twigged that that was because my body was demanding more of it. Finally I was giving it what it needed and didn't understand when it was telling me it wanted more - needed more.

Gradually over the years I was getting low-level cellular dehydration. I was still peeing ok so assumed I was hydrated, but cellular dehydration doesn't necessarily manifest in the same way as urinary dehydration.

As toxins build up in the body, they too put heavier demands on the body for water to enable them to be cleared. Brown pee is not just a sign of dehydration, it's also a sign of toxin build-up.

I don't necessarily drink the two litres recommended, as now my thirst mechanism works better, so I just make sure I am topped up during the day. Apart from a very occasional coffee, I only drink plain water (and take the Celtic Sea Salt to keep my electrolyte levels topped up too).

I have found that getting enough good fats - the butter, ghee, coconut oil, lard, etc., has done wonders for my skin too. It seems that what is left from the process of burning fats is water, and that can help with rehydration too.

The Watercure site is interesting. I also have Dr Batman's book 'your body's many cries for water'. This page is interesting on Diabetes and water. http://www.watercure2.org/diabetes_a_simple_fix.htm

I'm not sure the fix is particularly 'simple', well not for everyone, because it depends on the damage and how severe the diabetes is - and how long people will stick to the regime in order to see results! People are so used to going to the Doctor and getting an immediate 'cure' (ha ha), that the idea of REAL healing taking a long time is anathema to them and they are not interested.

I am persevering with my healing journey - occasionally to derisive 'sneers' from others, but the healing I am seeing so far on the 15 months I have been on my 'healing diet' is enough to convince me I am on the right track. Just now I am going through some very heavy, and quite tiring detoxing, and that can make people feel as though they are not getting anywhere, but when you come out the other side you feel that much better each time, that you know it is working. My body has felt 'poisoned' for a long time, and I just want it out. Whatever I have to go through to get there is nothing compared to all the years of debilitated health I have suffered. Besides, no one ever said that the route to healing was going to be easy.......
 
If you want more information on the right way to prepare grains - and foods in general to get the best out of them, Google 'Weston Price'.

The Weston Price Foundation - set up to keep alive the amazing knowledge und understanding of this inquisitive American dentist, on indigenous diets and the huge difference in nutritional value between them and the 'Western diet' - has been prominent in bringing these ancient wisdoms back for our benefit.

Sally Fallon, one of the founders has written several publications, but I have 'Nourishing Traditions' which is a huge tome of information and recipes. She has also given several lectures - parts of which are on the internet and are well-worth watching or listening to. There is an awful lot of common sense prevailing in this information.

http://vimeo.com/10489302
http://vimeo.com/10502171
http://hartkeisonline.com/natural-healt ... on-morell/
 
Early stages, but I have been testing some of this.

Bought a whole grain loaf of sour dough from a famous wood fired, sour dough bakery. When I went from 5.5 to 7.0 then 8.2 in 2.5 hours after eating a small slice, I put the remainder of the loaf in the worm farm. I haven't seen a figure as high as 8 for a long, long time. My chosen limit is 6.0 at all times.

Today we were in Sydney and I bought a loaf of sprouted spelt and chia from the range of sprouted loaves because it was the lowest carb. Back home clutching my treasures which included some tiny cumquats (I eat them whole, skin on), blood limes, a half litre of delicious olive oil and a fennel bulb, I took two slices of the bread (total 72 g), toasted them, buttered them and put cheese and watercress on top and ate them carefully.

My before reading was 4.7. The following readings take hourly were 5.4, 6.3 (oh dear) then 5.2. Will try this another day with one slice and see what happens.

The only thing was, I really haven't missed bread and am not craving it after eating it. :shock:
 
I wonder if it was the fact that you ate them 'carefully' that was the problem..... :lol:
 
Perhaps you have something there AliB. :lol: Maybe I should aim to eat a slice of bread carelessly?
:oops:
More likely the sourdough does not sit for 12 hours in the process.
 
clearviews said:
Early stages, but I have been testing some of this.

Bought a whole grain loaf of sour dough from a famous wood fired, sour dough bakery. When I went from 5.5 to 7.0 then 8.2 in 2.5 hours after eating a small slice, I put the remainder of the loaf in the worm farm. I haven't seen a figure as high as 8 for a long, long time. My chosen limit is 6.0 at all times.

Today we were in Sydney and I bought a loaf of sprouted spelt and chia from the range of sprouted loaves because it was the lowest carb. Back home clutching my treasures which included some tiny cumquats (I eat them whole, skin on), blood limes, a half litre of delicious olive oil and a fennel bulb, I took two slices of the bread (total 72 g), toasted them, buttered them and put cheese and watercress on top and ate them carefully.

My before reading was 4.7. The following readings take hourly were 5.4, 6.3 (oh dear) then 5.2. Will try this another day with one slice and see what happens.

The only thing was, I really haven't missed bread and am not craving it after eating it. :shock:
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Can I just ask why you tried the bread in the first place if you did not miss it in the first place and why you still want to try again with just one slice again if you do not crave it?
 
Easy answer was that I was curious to see for myself the difference between breads which had a long soaking time vs bread made the quick way. Whether they worked or did not work on me.
If there is a bread that does keep my bgs within range then there is another option I can add to the growing list of foods that are healthy for me.

The one slice I had the other day took me to the top of my OK range in one hour then fell back to start point in the next hour. The purchased loaf is in the freezer and I haven't felt the need to try it yet again.
 
Just been catching up with this thread and after reading the last page about the stuff in our bread and now water that is killing us all slowly I'm surprised any of us are still alive and able to still post :lol:

AliB said:
As long as the 'bread' has not been subjected to too high a heat then the nutrients should all be intact.
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Is bread not baked Ali, or is this sprouted bread made by some other process that does not involve heat?
 
Sid Bonkers said:
Just been catching up with this thread and after reading the last page about the stuff in our bread and now water that is killing us all slowly I'm surprised any of us are still alive and able to still post :lol:
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The last couple of years of reading this forum I'm still trying to figure out why the world population is growing fatser than ever and people live longer than we ever have well past 80 years where as our ancestors a few hundred years ago were very lucky to get passed 50. It's still a mystery to me. :?

AliB said:
As long as the 'bread' has not been subjected to too high a heat then the nutrients should all be intact.
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Is bread not baked Ali, or is this sprouted bread made by some other process that does not involve heat?
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I'd like to know what sort of temperature they cooked the bread in "ancient" times. FRom what I know, if it does not get baked at the right temperature then the breat will not rise, will be a lot drier by the time it's baked and also will be "heavier". And from what I can gather the "heavier" the bread the worse it is for diabetics but myabe my info is wrong?
 
Ka-Mon said:

The last couple of years of reading this forum I'm still trying to figure out why the world population is growing fatser than ever and people live longer than we ever have well past 80 years where as our ancestors a few hundred years ago were very lucky to get passed 50. It's still a mystery to me.
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One of the reasons is that they tended to die of diseases that we can now cure, immunise against or have eradicated - eg smallpox. We don't get "plague" epidemics any more, (except maybe for influenza, and not forgetting HIV/AIDS) and we have clean water, better food storage, and refrigeration, which all help. We don't get famines in the Western hemisphere any more, but even 200 years ago a bad harvest could result in starvation in England - and look at the Irish Potato Famine! Those deaths could have been prevented, which is a totally different issue.

We don't have rabies in this country any more, nor malaria (previously known as the ague).

Also the 'average age at death' statistics that people quote include an awful lot of infant/childhood deaths, which weight the figures; aslo female deaths in childbirth. We forget that kids used to die of chickenpox, measles, whooping cough, diphtheria, scarlet fever - when did you last hear of a case of scarlet fever? I had it when I was about 3, in the early '50s, and was nearly quarantined in a fever hospital (my mum was stubborn!). Pneumonia and bronchitis were the biggest killers of the elderly, even then.

I have heard it suggested that our so-called 'epidemic' of heart disease (which I believe is now declining) is not so much the development of 'new' cases, but simply that people are not dying of anything else!

I've just been working on a paper on family history for a lecture I gave yesterday. Quite a number of my male ancestors in the 15th, 16th and 17th centuries died in their late 70s. They weren't aristocrats, more local landowners, and some of them fought in this country and in France. Maybe they were healthy because of local, seasonal food, an active outdoor life, and good Yorkshire air!

I seem to remember that it was in the Industrial Revolution, when the population moved to insanitary cities and lived in appalling conditions with very poor food, that life expectancy went down. Cholera was a big killer, and its origin and treatment weren't discovered until the mid-19th century, I think.

Correct me if I'm wrong! :D

Viv 8)
 
Thank you for that, Viv. It was extremely interesting :)
 
Quite a number of my male ancestors in the 15th, 16th and 17th centuries died in their late 70s. They weren't aristocrats, more local landowners, and some of them fought in this country and in France. Maybe they were healthy because of local, seasonal food, an active outdoor life, and good Yorkshire air
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It may have been different at the other end of the social spectrum. My ancestors on my mother's side were mostly ag labs .A few survived into their 70s but most died earlier. ( thoughmany managed 2 wives, remarrying after the first one died in childbirth). I only know the reason for the death of one of them who died 'of exhaustion' in the local workhouse.
 
viviennem said:
Ka-Mon said:

The last couple of years of reading this forum I'm still trying to figure out why the world population is growing fatser than ever and people live longer than we ever have well past 80 years where as our ancestors a few hundred years ago were very lucky to get passed 50. It's still a mystery to me.
Click to expand...

One of the reasons is that they tended to die of diseases that we can now cure, immunise against or have eradicated - eg smallpox. We don't get "plague" epidemics any more, (except maybe for influenza, and not forgetting HIV/AIDS) and we have clean water, better food storage, and refrigeration, which all help. We don't get famines in the Western hemisphere any more, but even 200 years ago a bad harvest could result in starvation in England - and look at the Irish Potato Famine! Those deaths could have been prevented, which is a totally different issue.

We don't have rabies in this country any more, nor malaria (previously known as the ague).

Also the 'average age at death' statistics that people quote include an awful lot of infant/childhood deaths, which weight the figures; aslo female deaths in childbirth. We forget that kids used to die of chickenpox, measles, whooping cough, diphtheria, scarlet fever - when did you last hear of a case of scarlet fever? I had it when I was about 3, in the early '50s, and was nearly quarantined in a fever hospital (my mum was stubborn!). Pneumonia and bronchitis were the biggest killers of the elderly, even then.

I have heard it suggested that our so-called 'epidemic' of heart disease (which I believe is now declining) is not so much the development of 'new' cases, but simply that people are not dying of anything else!

I've just been working on a paper on family history for a lecture I gave yesterday. Quite a number of my male ancestors in the 15th, 16th and 17th centuries died in their late 70s. They weren't aristocrats, more local landowners, and some of them fought in this country and in France. Maybe they were healthy because of local, seasonal food, an active outdoor life, and good Yorkshire air!

I seem to remember that it was in the Industrial Revolution, when the population moved to insanitary cities and lived in appalling conditions with very poor food, that life expectancy went down. Cholera was a big killer, and its origin and treatment weren't discovered until the mid-19th century, I think.

Correct me if I'm wrong! :D

Viv 8)
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Nope, nothing to correct at all but your example above seems (to me anyway) that modern tecnology/medication does help us live longer and also that modern food/bread/water isn't the "killer" as some make it out to be. Obviously though, anything eaten in massive quantities will and does do damage and can cause early death which again means that everything consumed within "moderation" is not at all harmful to anyone.
 
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