Prediabetes Any LCHF tips to re kick start my FBG reduction ?

[Begonia]

I'm trying to get my blood glucose down to 'normal' levels as defined by Dr Bernstein. This is to see if it will help my neuropathy symptoms.

Started lowering carbs in mid Feb and have been around the 45-60g level for about 4 weeks now. My FBG has been going in the right direction and is certainly more stable (about 5.3 ). However it seems to have 'stalled' at this level and I'd like to get it a bit lower. I'm very active (work in plant nursery so on my feet several hours a day). Have lost a few pounds (BMI gone from 26.2 to 25.9). Any tips on how to get FBG lower ?

(I've already been to neurologist who suggested vitamins and insoles. will go back in a couple of months if diet moderation doesn't help).

 

[bulkbiker]

You could try cutting carbs further.. or maybe some fasting?
How often are you eating?

 

[Begonia]

Typical meals:
Breakfast bacon & eggs mushrooms and a tomato or almond porridge with yoghurt
Lunch Atkins crispbreads with cheese or avocado
Dinner steak with coleslaw or chicken Caesar salad or lamb steaks and lettuce salad with mayo

Snacks of nuts or cheese and also the odd can of lager or glass of red wine

(I know I could cut out the lager but was hoping for a more appealing magic bullet !)

 

[Jo123]

Well I'm impressed at a fasting of 5.3!
However I can see why you want to reduce it if you have neuropathy assumptions.
I would cut out the lager and reduce your carbs to 20. I would also try and get my bmi lower.
Are you weighing your salad and coleslaw, I eat no obvious carbs like bread or pasta, but I was surprised how many I was eating from salad and green vegetables.

 

[bulkbiker]

Much the same advice as I would give.. try cutting the carbs a bit more. My FBG took ages to come down (about 6 months) so you are doing far better already.. ever thought of trying some fasting? I gave up breakfast when I was diagnosed and credit that and my ultra low carbing with getting good control of my sugar levels..

 

[ickihun]

Typical meals:
Breakfast bacon & eggs mushrooms and a tomato or almond porridge with yoghurt
Lunch Atkins crispbreads with cheese or avocado
Dinner steak with coleslaw or chicken Caesar salad or lamb steaks and lettuce salad with mayo

Snacks of nuts or cheese and also the odd can of lager or glass of red wine

(I know I could cut out the lager but was hoping for a more appealing magic bullet !)

I'm on insulin so can get fbg as low as I like but I know a few none med type2s getting 4s but they do huge amounts of exercise.
I wish I could exercise a lot.
Can you?

 

[Resurgam]

It might be the crisp breads - they are 'low carb' but only by comparison, and I have found that the source of the carbs I eat is just as important as the number of gms.
It is going to make a packed lunch more problematic, but it might be worth organising something else, or perhaps eating something more substantial and only one crispbread to see if that helps.
Small changes can make a large difference if they are done every day.

 

[Bluetit1802]

I think a stable level of 5.3 is excellent.

What is your bedtime level? What are your other pre-meal levels? Have you ever tested during the night, for example if you wake up for a toilet visit?

 

[Mbaker]

Hi @Begonia, I would include some resistance training to further improve your insulin sensitivity, you might want to look up GLUT4 response to see how this works - I reckon 2 x 10 minutes a day could do it.

I would also recommend maybe the 16 8 fasting / eating protocol to start with, which could progress if you found this comfortable.

 

[Begonia]

Thanks for all your great suggestions. I'm taking them all on board.

Looks like I'll have to go lower carbs and cut the lager for starters.
I think my carb estimates are fairly accurate on the food, including accounting for the coleslaw and other greens properly but possibly underestimating the lager. Will switch atkins crispbreads to some other packed lunch option... I've been experimenting with almond / flaxseed bread (only 4g carbs in half a small loaf) so may try that for sandwiches.

Bedtime level about 5.4 ish usually. Occasionally go down to say 4.8 during the day. Not getting huge spikes unless I eat something like bowl of oat porridge. I haven't tested thru the night at all.

I'll check out exercise you mention @Mbaker (don't know how to tag), but I don't go to the gym at the moment. Main exercise is work (lifting compost and shifting plants) plus dog walking. Maybe I can do some more focused exercise.

I do intend to get my BMI down a bit (target about 23), I'm hoping that if I lose the fat round my waist this will help bring FBG down... is that how it works or am I kidding myself ?

Your comment that it took you six months to get your FBG down give me hope @bulkbiker... thanks.

 

[Bluetit1802]

Bedtime level about 5.4 ish usually. Occasionally go down to say 4.8 during the day. Not getting huge spikes unless I eat something like bowl of oat porridge. I haven't tested thru the night at all.

I asked those questions because it is interesting to discover what your personal baseline levels are. I believe quite strongly that we each have different personal levels where our bodies want us to be, and that very little can be done to alter this. Some people have baselines in the 3s. Some in the 4s. Some in the 5s. It is pot luck which we are. I know mine are low 5s. Like yours. It's where I am at bedtime, mornings, before meals. I sometimes see high 4s. I know I drop overnight (I wear a Libre part time) but by morning I am always back to the same as when I went to bed.

You may well discover you have already reached your personal natural baseline. 5s are fine as long as post meal spikes are small and short lived the majority of the time.

 

[kokhongw]

Bedtime level about 5.4 ish usually. Occasionally go down to say 4.8 during the day. Not getting huge spikes unless I eat something like bowl of oat porridge. I haven't tested thru the night at all.

Sounds like you are within reach of <5.0 mmol for your fasting BG.
Consider skipping a couple of dinner/supper and see where that leads you...that was what worked wonders for me.

 

[Begonia]

Thanks @Bluetit1802. It makes sense that we each have a base level. Just wonder if that base level shifts for example if we lose weight (particularly round the waist) ?

 

[Jamesuk9]

Thanks @Bluetit1802. It makes sense that we each have a base level. Just wonder if that base level shifts for example if we lose weight (particularly round the waist) ?

Yes, it can and does shift but is always the last number to improve.... It can take years for some people and weeks for others.

Weight loss helps, particularly around the middle and visceral fat loss helps too.

Building muscle mass and exercise also helps if you can.

Diet is the single biggest influencer though...

 

[Begonia]

Sounds like you are within reach of <5.0 mmol for your fasting BG.
Consider skipping a couple of dinner/supper and see where that leads you...that was what worked wonders for me.

So a bit of fasting did the trick for you. Did that just kick start the lower FBG or do you keep having to miss meals ?

 

[Bluetit1802]

Thanks @Bluetit1802. It makes sense that we each have a base level. Just wonder if that base level shifts for example if we lose weight (particularly round the waist) ?

It may do. It hasn't for me though. My BMI dropped from 31 to 21 and lost 10" off my waist. Maintained this since November 2014 and no reduction in baseline levels. Just post meals. What I don't do is strenuous exercise, I walk the dog twice a day and do housework and some gardening but have always done those things. I must say though, my pre-lunch levels have dropped since I started skipping breakfast. They were always my highest baseline readings, now they are in line with the rest.

Try out all the suggestions you've had. It may work. If it doesn't, you can happily resign yourself to seeing your own natural levels. Like I have.

 

[kokhongw]

So a bit of fasting did the trick for you. Did that just kick start the lower FBG or do you keep having to miss meals ?

I was hovering around 7 mmol for fasting BG until I starting skipping dinner. Skipping 2 dinners per week for 2 weeks brought it down to 5.5 mmol. And it stays within 5.0-6.0 mmol ever since. If I want to lower it < 5.0 mmol I need to skip a couple of dinner. It is very repeatable for me.

But I am comfortable with FBG 5.5 mmol. Even though that is still 20% higher then 4.5mmol ...perhaps when I feel motivated again, I will do another round of 4-5 day fast...that helps to keep FBG < 5.0 mmol for about a week.

 

[Jamesuk9]

I was hovering around 7 mmol for fasting BG until I starting skipping dinner. Skipping 2 dinners per week for 2 weeks brought it down to 5.5 mmol. And it stays within 5.0-6.0 mmol ever since. If I want to lower it < 5.0 mmol I need to skip a couple of dinner. It is very repeatable for me.

But I am comfortable with FBG 5.5 mmol. Even though that is still 20% higher then 4.5mmol ...perhaps when I feel motivated again, I will do another round of 4-5 day fast...that helps to keep FBG < 5.0 mmol for about a week.

^^^^^ this is the key to lowering fbg permanently... I tried it but being skinny the wieght loss was too significant.

Jason fung advocates 23/1 personally on 3 to 4 days a week as he does it himself.

I've always eaten 23/1 most of my adult life so it did little for me. I found the greatest reduction in fbg after 48 hour fasting but it wasn't sustainable as I was getting dangerously underweight, approaching less than 10% body fat and looking rather unwell as a result.

 

[BarbaraG]

Megan Ramos, who works with Dr Fung and does most of the coaching of patients in fasting, talks about the importance of changing your routine. They don't recommend doing one meal a day (aka 23/1) all the time, as the body adjusts to it. Instead, do a few days of 23/1, then switch back to 2 or 3 meals for the rest of the week. Or, do the one meal thing on 2 or 3 separate days each week, eating more frequently on the others. An occasional longer fast can help break through a stall in weight, and/or reset insulin resistance to a lower level.

My own experience is that a full 24 hour fast will give me a nice low overnight number and better morning number, but the effect tends to wear off as the week goes on.

 

[Pauntiep]

How comes fasting doesn't result in hypo?